Judge rules Obamacare unconstitutional, endangering coverage for 20 million

[Ridgerunner]

I don’t know what the costs were relative to income, but people often stayed there much longer than now. So it couldn’t have been too ruinously expensive. Our local hospital was operated by sisters. Their room and board was the hospital itself. So that would have kept costs down.

At least where I lived, they weren’t thought of places where you went to die. They had maternity services there and everything, like now. Surgeries were performed. But it’s true people sometimes went there for things they wouldn’t go to a hospital for now. It’s also true, though, that some things were deadlier then than now, of their nature. If, say, a person had pneumonia, off to the hospital he/she went, where now most of the time the person would get a round of far more powerful antibiotics and stay home.

 

[sallybutler]

Except antibiotics weren’t being used in 1922. Fleming discovered penicillin in 1928.

 

[upant]

they sure did, but can we go back to better plans?

The quality of coverage may be very poor. In fact, all ACA coverage is likely to be worse than the plans many had before ACA.

Where in the Constitution does Congress get the authority to outlaw the plans millions have chosen to purchase to help pay medical bills, and force them to buy a product they can’t afford and don’t want? It is nowhere to be found.

All of Obamacare should be declared unconstitutional | WND | by Jane M. Orient, M.D.

 

[upant]

they sure did, but can we go back to better plans?

The quality of coverage may be very poor. In fact, all ACA coverage is likely to be worse than the plans many had before ACA.

Where in the Constitution does Congress get the authority to outlaw the plans millions have chosen to purchase to help pay medical bills, and force them to buy a product they can’t afford and don’t want? It is nowhere to be found.

All of Obamacare should be declared unconstitutional | WND | by Jane M. Orient, M.D.

 

[ProVobis]

So why do we need Congress at all?

 

[ProVobis]

force them to buy a product they can’t afford and don’t want?

That would be a fair question had ER not be forced to treat everyone, regardless of ability to pay.

 

[upant]

So why do we need Congress at all?

you don’t believe congress needs to follow the constitution?

 

[dvdjs]

The surgical procedures in 1922 were very little different from those today. But the costs aren’t, of course.

Of the ten most common surgical procedures, 4 were completely unknown in 1922. Methods - diagnostics, imaging, transfusion of banked blood, antibiotic therapy, immunosuppresion, laparascopy, … - used in the others have been vastly transformed since 1922. Wiki articles on each procedures give good summaries on the history of each of these surgeries that document the considerable progress for most all of them since 1922.

The 10 Most Common Surgeries in the U.S.

The 10 most common surgeries in the United States vary widely in terms of condition treated and cost.

www.healthgrades.com

 

[JonNC]

JonNC:

Why on Earth would they think that any government plan would be better in terms of religious free exercise?

I would say the answer to your question is “history.” Government getting involved in healthcare is relatively new to Man, a result of us being more civilized and valuing life. Before then, it was not uncommon for disease to ravage the poor, and only the rich could afford medical care.

The party that is pushing government dictated healthcare is the very same party that pushes abortion on demand, and numerous other things that directly contradict Catholic teaching. It would seem rather apparent that they would wish to impose these things in a “healthcare “ plan.
It is profoundly naive to believe otherwise or believe one can change their minds about it.

 

[JonNC]

You’ll fight a never ending battle attempting to persuade some persons on here to see it from your perspective. Some believe the government is just plain bad all the way around.

Provide a post where someone has said this. Government is not bad all the way around. Government is bad when it usurps powers not granted, when it attempts to interfere with individual rights.

I see the list of “rights” claimed and not one of them is considered an inalienable right other than healthcare. It’s up there with shelter, food, and clothing.

Let’s be clear. It is those who want to impose government control of healthcare that do not consider it a right. They consider it a privilege subject to government approval or denial.
Call nationalized healthcare all you want, but don’t redefine what a right is. Healthcare is a right. So is food and shelter. They are rights, and therefore you have the right to acquire them.

I can live without a gun, a microphone, and I am restricted in certain forms of speech and could be brought up on charges of slander if not honest, but healthcare? No one should be without it, it’s essential. One catastrophic accident, you know the rest.

This is, in my view, a call for authoritarianism. “I can live without rights, and government should control my needs.”

They don’t, and further more they don’t care.

I need a clarification here. Tell me who doesn’t care?

Child labor laws took forever to obtain, it was a long fight. Everyone thought they had a “right” to work a child especially if it was theirs, no government was going to tell them what to do.

Source.

It took the government to abolish slavery as well as a civil war with bloodshed.

Yes. Government fought to secure the rights of individuals, something that seems to be eschewed earlier in the post.

On and on………….You are talking to persons that have no intentions of seeing any benefit to anything the government has needed to step in and clean up unless it benefits them directly. Funny thing is it would. ciao’

Please clarify. Who in particular are you speaking of?

 

[DENNYINMI]

You ask for sources?

Your prior post continues to talk of “government dictated” healthcare. I have introduced the concept that persons (anyone) not be intellectually lazy, do some homework and see other countries that have universal health care and are doing it well with happy citizens. They exist, the programs and the people.

No sir. I don’t do homework for anyone. What I had to say has been laid out with the suggestions to view other successful health programs that are “universal” in nature.

Look for yourself please.

 

[Inisfallen]

It would seem rather apparent that they would wish to impose these things in a “healthcare “ plan

Abortion is covered by the insurance plan that covers me, my wife and my children.

And yet I never see demands that I refuse to participate in this plan. I guess it’s not so bad when the private sector funds abortion.

How many here who object to any kind of national health insurance (which, again, is not government-dictated health care) also object to participating in private sector plans that pay for abortion? How many participate in such plans?

 

[JonNC]

Your prior post continues to talk of “government dictated” healthcare. I have introduced the concept that persons (anyone) not be intellectually lazy, do some homework and see other countries that have universal health care and are doing it well with happy citizens. They exist, the programs and the people.

Does not the government set up the rules in a single payer plan? Did not the government dictate the regulations present in the HHS Mandate?
It is intellectual laziness to deny the facts.

 

[JonNC]

Abortion is covered by the insurance plan that covers me, my wife and my children.

And yet I never see demands that I refuse to participate in this plan. I guess it’s not so bad when the private sector funds abortion.

I certainly won’t demand you do something. That’s the idea of liberty. Abortion is sadly legal here. Do what you wish. The problem is that those who favor government dictated healthcare want to impose these types of coverages. See the Little Sisters of the Poor and Hobby Lobby.

How many here who object to any kind of national health insurance (which, again, is not government-dictated health care) also object to participating in private sector plans that pay for abortion? How many participate in such plans?

If government sets the rules, it is government dictated.

 

[ProVobis]

That’s just it. Congress is set up to legislate. What does that mean to you?

 

[ProVobis]

Abortion is sadly legal here. Do what you wish. The problem is that those who favor government dictated healthcare want to impose these types of coverages. See the Little Sisters of the Poor and Hobby Lobby.

Are all Catholics using birth control committing countless abortions that they don’t know about? That’s not what John Rock intended.

 

[JonNC]

JonNC:

Abortion is sadly legal here. Do what you wish. The problem is that those who favor government dictated healthcare want to impose these types of coverages. See the Little Sisters of the Poor and Hobby Lobby.

Are all Catholics using birth control committing countless abortions that they don’t know about? That’s not what John Rock intended.

I don’t know. I certainly didn’t make such an accusation.
More importantly, should a private company whose owners are Catholic, for example, be required to provide contraceptives in their employee healthcare plan?

 

[JonNC]

You ask for sources?

I also asked for a clarification. You said:

They don’t, and further more they don’t care.

Of whom are you speaking?

And

You are talking to persons that have no intentions of seeing any benefit to anything the government has needed to step in and clean up unless it benefits them directly. Funny thing is it would. ciao’

Of whom are you speaking?

 

[upant]

That’s just it. Congress is set up to legislate. What does that mean to you?

the laws created have to be constitutional

 

[Metis1]

You can and try and play this any way you want, but the W.H.O. I would suggest is not made up of idiots who don’t know what they’re dealing with. Of course each system is different to varying degrees, but the stats on total costs are the stats that the they deal with when running comparisons.

If we took your approach here, we could never make any comparisons as such, but my guess is that if the comparison worked the other way you’d probably be shouting it from the rooftops.