Judge Says Calif. Can't Ban Gay Marriage

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siamesecat:
Alright…gay marriage is totally different than wanting to marry a child. Gay people are consenting adults who are legally mature enough to enter a marriage. Its totally different than an adult preying on a young child. As for marrying your stapler or dog…lets get real. No one wants to do that…its totally different than marrying a person you care about…and even if you did…who cares? Is someones marriage to a stapler going to affect anything in any way shape or form other than making some wacko happy? Polygamy is different because if a man has multiple wives or vice versa he is not in a committed relationship like gay people are…and its totally different legally because are companies ever gonna provide healthcare to 12 spouses? No…it makes things waaay more complicated than gay marriage. And its clear that a man cant be totally in love with several women so its not even a real union or committment its a weird living situation which invites jealousy. Now incest I can see your point…if gay people can get married, why cant 2 consenting and committed adults who are related get married? My only valid argument is that a good many of the children they produce will have mild to serious birth defects, which is just bringing more problems into the world and creating a closed gene pool. It causes still births and miscarriages and all sorts of things. With gay people , their kids have no greater risk of being gay, and dont seem to show any serious setbacks from being raised by gay parents as far as Ive heard. Therefore,I think gay marriage is completely different from the aforementioned.
I know that you are young, and I really appreciate your boldness in putting forth your opinions. I do have a question for you, though. If you think that it’s clear that there is no way for a man to be “completely in love” with several women, can you see how it could be clear that two men or two women can’t form the same type of union that a man and a woman can?
 
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siamesecat:
Alright…gay marriage is totally different than wanting to marry a child. Gay people are consenting adults who are legally mature enough to enter a marriage. Its totally different than an adult preying on a young child…
Your friends at NAMBLA would beg to differ. They firmly believe that they are doing a WONDERFUL thing, not preying upon a child. Who are you to say otherwise? After all if they LOOOOOVE each other that’s all that matters right?
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siamesecat:
As for marrying your stapler or dog…lets get real. No one wants to do that…its totally different than marrying a person you care about…and even if you did…who cares? Is someones marriage to a stapler going to affect anything in any way shape or form other than making some wacko happy?.
The same could be said for two homosexuals… who would want to DO that??? EWWWWWW! You think bestiality is disgusting? THere are plenty of people who think homosexual activity is pretty icky too. So the bestiality fans are perverts and the homosexuals are just people who 'care about each other?" Homosexuals also say that their marriage doesn’t ‘hurt anyone.’ Again, they are tearing the fabric of society and trying to change norms to suit their perverted tastes.
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siamesecat:
Polygamy is different because if a man has multiple wives or vice versa he is not in a committed relationship like gay people are…and its totally different legally because are companies ever gonna provide healthcare to 12 spouses? No…it makes things waaay more complicated than gay marriage. And its clear that a man cant be totally in love with several women so its not even a real union or committment its a weird living situation which invites jealousy.
What’s love gotta do with it? Society is not supporting marriage because two people LOVE each other. Society doesn’t care who you love or who loves you. That is a relatively modern notion and not even an issue in all marriages. The point of marriage is that the nuclear family has traditionally been the backbone of society. Married people are more stable, more healthy, less likely to be involved in the justice system or need social services. There is no corresponding data that say homosexual unions have similar results. Further there is much data that demonstrates a two parent family of opposite sex provides the best environment for children. Society wants to promote what gives it a stable future. Traditional marriage and raising children is the ideal.

Further so what if it’s complicated if it’s a right? Freedom of speech is pretty darned complicated but we aren’t going to deny it because it’s hard to enforce.
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siamesecat:
Now incest I can see your point…if gay people can get married, why cant 2 consenting and committed adults who are related get married? My only valid argument is that a good many of the children they produce will have mild to serious birth defects, which is just bringing more problems into the world and creating a closed gene pool. It causes still births and miscarriages and all sorts of things. .
THAT is a MYTH. I think people have watched too many reruns of Deliverance. There are a number of closed societies and I assure you they do not produce a plethora of three headed babies.
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siamesecat:
With gay people , their kids have no greater risk of being gay, and dont seem to show any serious setbacks from being raised by gay parents as far as Ive heard. Therefore,I think gay marriage is completely different from the aforementioned.
You have absolutely no evidence to support that statement do you?

Lisa N
 
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StJeanneDArc:
I know that you are young, and I really appreciate your boldness in putting forth your opinions. I do have a question for you, though. If you think that it’s clear that there is no way for a man to be “completely in love” with several women, can you see how it could be clear that two men or two women can’t form the same type of union that a man and a woman can?
I guess it’s a possibility that they wouldnt be able to but I still don’t see why 2 men or 2 women can’t fall in love? Why would they want to get married if they werent really in love? And what proof is there that they cant fall in love?
 
Maybe 2 women and 2 men cant fall in love…Im not gay so I wouldnt know. But I have no reason to believe that they cant.
 
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siamesecat:
Maybe 2 women and 2 men cant fall in love…Im not gay so I wouldnt know. But I have no reason to believe that they cant.
You have the sadly common misperception that love is all about sex, and sex is all about love. True love wants what’s best for the other person. I love my husband, my children, my brothers and sisters, my nieces and nephews, my parents, my neighbors and friends.

Sexuality, on the other hand, is ordained for the procreation of children and the bonding of a man and a woman. Without getting too graphic, I think you’ll realize that two men or two women cannot join in a sexual union. In the same way, they cannot join in a marital union because they lack the complementarity of the sexes (which isn’t just physical, by the way).

This is really common sense, only we have a sub-culture working non-stop to suppress the natural sense and right reason of humans.
 
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siamesecat:
Maybe 2 women and 2 men cant fall in love…Im not gay so I wouldnt know. But I have no reason to believe that they cant.
Please define ‘in love’? Do you mean sexually attracted? I am quite sure that there is sexual attraction between certain homosexuals. Why else would they engage in that behavior if there wasn’t that “Eros” love? Yes, that is one kind of love but it doesn’t last. The average length of time for that 'my heart flutters every time I think of him" kind of love is l8 months. Not the length of time we want marriages to last.

Falling in love is easy, transitory and not something that should be the only basis for marriage. Although I’ve been married to the same man for over 25 years, I have been ‘in love’ with other men prior to meeting him. Should all of those transitory passions resulted in marriage? Do you marry the first man that makes your heart go pitter pat? I realize that many people idolize ‘romantic’ love to the detriment of the kind of lasting love that truly makes for a stable marriage and family. That is why so many are willing to cheapen marriage by demanding that their genitalia rule the world.

Lisa N
 
Lisa N:
Please define ‘in love’? Do you mean sexually attracted? I am quite sure that there is sexual attraction between certain homosexuals. Why else would they engage in that behavior if there wasn’t that “Eros” love? Yes, that is one kind of love but it doesn’t last. The average length of time for that 'my heart flutters every time I think of him" kind of love is l8 months. Not the length of time we want marriages to last.

Falling in love is easy, transitory and not something that should be the only basis for marriage. Although I’ve been married to the same man for over 25 years, I have been ‘in love’ with other men prior to meeting him. Should all of those transitory passions resulted in marriage? Do you marry the first man that makes your heart go pitter pat? I realize that many people idolize ‘romantic’ love to the detriment of the kind of lasting love that truly makes for a stable marriage and family. That is why so many are willing to cheapen marriage by demanding that their genitalia rule the world.

Lisa N
Yeah what is love? I think its a mixture of deep caring and sexual attraction. Thats what separates your love from your brother from the love for your husband…the sexual part of it…although love is the main reason. So wouldnt gay peoples feelings qualify as love? And no Im not suggesting gay people marry the first person they love Im saying they go about is as straight people do, marrying because they are in love and want to marry the person! And while I realize love isnt historically part of marriage it should be…would you want to marry someone you didnt love?
 
Lisa N:
Your friends at NAMBLA would beg to differ. They firmly believe that they are doing a WONDERFUL thing, not preying upon a child. Who are you to say otherwise? After all if they LOOOOOVE each other that’s all that matters right?

The same could be said for two homosexuals… who would want to DO that??? EWWWWWW! You think bestiality is disgusting? THere are plenty of people who think homosexual activity is pretty icky too. So the bestiality fans are perverts and the homosexuals are just people who 'care about each other?" Homosexuals also say that their marriage doesn’t ‘hurt anyone.’ Again, they are tearing the fabric of society and trying to change norms to suit their perverted tastes.

What’s love gotta do with it? Society is not supporting marriage because two people LOVE each other. Society doesn’t care who you love or who loves you. That is a relatively modern notion and not even an issue in all marriages. The point of marriage is that the nuclear family has traditionally been the backbone of society. Married people are more stable, more healthy, less likely to be involved in the justice system or need social services. There is no corresponding data that say homosexual unions have similar results. Further there is much data that demonstrates a two parent family of opposite sex provides the best environment for children. Society wants to promote what gives it a stable future. Traditional marriage and raising children is the ideal.

Further so what if it’s complicated if it’s a right? Freedom of speech is pretty darned complicated but we aren’t going to deny it because it’s hard to enforce.

THAT is a MYTH. I think people have watched too many reruns of Deliverance. There are a number of closed societies and I assure you they do not produce a plethora of three headed babies.

You have absolutely no evidence to support that statement do you?

Lisa N
A child cannot make many decisions legally for his or herself so why should he/she be able to enter into a marriage despite what the disgusting organization of NAMBLA thinks. Love should be a part of marriage. Ive seen on Oprah cases of incest where the woman was born with a bone deficiency disorder etc and if babies arent born with birth defects that whats wrong with incest? I wouldnt want to marry my dad but whats wrong with a distant counsin? No I dont have evidence but there is evidence that gay peoples kids arent born gay.
 
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siamesecat:
A child cannot make many decisions legally for his or herself so why should he/she be able to enter into a marriage despite what the disgusting organization of NAMBLA thinks
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I am not even talking about marriage here, I am talking about how, if you don’t have a frame of reference, anyone could justify any kind of relationship if it suits their fancy. You seem to believe that “love” is the reason for marriage. I disagree. Certainly that is a component but again, define what kind of ‘love’ is acceptable? The NAMBLA people think they are fully justified in sexual exploitation of children. Go to their website. It’s full of testimonials from l3 year old boys who said 48 year old Bill was “the best thing that happened to them.” IOW not all sexual relationships are equally normal or valid.
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siamesecat:
Love should be a part of marriage. Ive seen on Oprah cases of incest where the woman was born with a bone deficiency disorder etc and if babies arent born with birth defects that whats wrong with incest? I wouldnt want to marry my dad but whats wrong with a distant counsin? No I dont have evidence but there is evidence that gay peoples kids arent born gay.
Well I don’t think the Oprah show is considered a valid scientific study. I am sure there is anecdotal support for not allowing incestuous relationships. My point is that it’s our societal disgust at the thought of marrying a sibling or parent that is the REAL reason for the prohibition. For a long time the thought of homosexual relationships created a large measure of disgust but homosexuals are making every attempt to normalize THEIR brand of perversion. Just think if there were as many people engaged in necrophelia or bestiality as are engaged in sodomy, we’d probably have people promoting this behavior as normal. After all it’s normal for THEM since they have no real frame of reference.

I hope you understand that I am pointing out how your argument fails because you are using only your frame of reference, deciding that is correct because that is the way you FEEL, not because there is any biological, historical, societal or biblical support for homosexual marriage. Is there?

Lisa N
 
Tyler Smedley:
I hate judicial activism…thats what this is…judges saying what they think rather then what the constituation says.
Or what the people have voted. Judicial activists have broken the law by violating the seperation of powers act, yet politicians do not arrest judges. Why?
 
Lisa N:
I am not even talking about marriage here, I am talking about how, if you don’t have a frame of reference, anyone could justify any kind of relationship if it suits their fancy. You seem to believe that “love” is the reason for marriage. I disagree. Certainly that is a component but again, define what kind of ‘love’ is acceptable? The NAMBLA people think they are fully justified in sexual exploitation of children. Go to their website. It’s full of testimonials from l3 year old boys who said 48 year old Bill was “the best thing that happened to them.” IOW not all sexual relationships are equally normal or valid.

Well I don’t think the Oprah show is considered a valid scientific study. I am sure there is anecdotal support for not allowing incestuous relationships. My point is that it’s our societal disgust at the thought of marrying a sibling or parent that is the REAL reason for the prohibition. For a long time the thought of homosexual relationships created a large measure of disgust but homosexuals are making every attempt to normalize THEIR brand of perversion. Just think if there were as many people engaged in necrophelia or bestiality as are engaged in sodomy, we’d probably have people promoting this behavior as normal. After all it’s normal for THEM since they have no real frame of reference.

I hope you understand that I am pointing out how your argument fails because you are using only your frame of reference, deciding that is correct because that is the way you FEEL, not because there is any biological, historical, societal or biblical support for homosexual marriage. Is there?

Lisa N
Once again…I am talking about consenting adults and not children!
 
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siamesecat:
Once again…I am talking about consenting adults and not children!
Specifically with respect to what issue? Do you think that consenting adults can engage in any behavior they wish? How about prostitution?

Lisa N
 
Lisa N:
Specifically with respect to what issue? Do you think that consenting adults can engage in any behavior they wish? How about prostitution?

Lisa N
In regards to marriage. We are talking about marriage which is not prostitution and of course adults cant engage in any behavior they wish but can legally make many more decisions than children who should not be allowed to marry an adult. They are legally too immature to make that sort of decision.
 
:rotfl:
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fix:
I think it is discrimination that one can’t “marry” a stapler. What an oppressive culture we have. So many ignorant, irrational people. Some really “love” their desk items.
 
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siamesecat:
Alright…gay marriage is totally different than wanting to marry a child. Gay people are consenting adults who are legally mature enough to enter a marriage. Its totally different than an adult preying on a young child. As for marrying your stapler or dog…lets get real. No one wants to do that…its totally different than marrying a person you care about…and even if you did…who cares? Is someones marriage to a stapler going to affect anything in any way shape or form other than making some wacko happy? Polygamy is different because if a man has multiple wives or vice versa he is not in a committed relationship
Says who? Polygamists believe that they are in a committed relationship. Further, gays may be “committed” but they certainly don’t have a reputation for monogamy. That’s the point. When you start redefining something that has existed since the beginning of time, it is done subjectively. Let’s change this definition to suit my needs but not yours.
simesecat:
Now incest I can see your point…if gay people can get married, why cant 2 consenting and committed adults who are related get married? My only valid argument is that a good many of the children they produce will have mild to serious birth defects, which is just bringing more problems into the world and creating a closed gene pool. It causes still births and miscarriages and all sorts of things.
So what? What if they choose not to have children. Besides, non related people have children with birth defects.

The issue is redefining marriage to accomodate a specific sexual perversion. If its good for one, why wouldn’t it be good for another?
 
Thats exactly it…its one heck of a slippery slope. Its too bad some ppl can’t see it.
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condan:
The issue is redefining marriage to accomodate a specific sexual perversion. If its good for one, why wouldn’t it be good for another?
 
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TPJCatholic:
Legal marriage in the United States does NOT discriminate. It is an obvious point that people just fly over without giving it a thought.
It’s still discrimination when 100% of homosexuals are are barred from marrying who they want and heterosexuals are generally allowed to marry whoever they want.

By your reasoning the Protestants in this country could outlaw Catholicism and justify it by saying that since **everyone ** is barred from attending a Catholic church and everyone is free to attend a Protestant church then no one’s rights are being violated anyone and no one is being discriminated against.
 
I would like one of the people here defending same sex marriage to argue the point of why a legitimize same gender marriage arrangement is better for society than a polyamorous marriage arrangement. I would also like an objective definition of what a consenting adult is. It seems that there is alot of ambiguity regarding this debate, I’d like to establish some clarity so we are all talking about the same thing.
 
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