Julián Castro opens his presidential bid with a Catholicism aimed at Latino vote

[humbleseeker]

And why does she look sad?

This was meant as a reflection on the comment by @Luke6_37:

Look who’s behind him in this photo!

Given Castro’s support of same sex marriage and abortion, shouldn’t it be obvious why our Lady is sad?

In that case I suggest you write his bishop to disallow him communion until he starts changing his votes.

The comment you are replying to is a direct quote from the article I linked. My apologies, I will add quotation marks*. Since it’s common knowledge where Castro stands on the issues, I don’t think my writing to the Bishop will be persuasive.

*I’m unable to edit my previous post to add in quotation marks.

 

[JimG]

Obviously if he were a pro-life Catholic he would never get the nomination. His party would not allow it. But they will be fine with a pro-abortion Catholic who supports same sex marriage. I would love to see a truly pro-life Catholic be nominated by the Democratic Party. But it won’t happen.

 

[ZMystiCat]

I agree. However, depending on the religion, it could the ones who are actively practicing that you need to worry about.

I think if a politician thought they could score cheap political points by touting some familial background in a religion with abhorrent practices, then I think that nation has bigger issues to deal with than just crooked politicians.

 

[Luke6_37]

Obviously if he were a pro-life Catholic he would never get the nomination. His party would not allow it. But they will be fine with a pro-abortion Catholic who supports same sex marriage. I would love to see a truly pro-life Catholic be nominated by the Democratic Party. But it won’t happen.

A truly pro-life Catholic would have to be in sync with every policy position listed by the Catholic Bishops regarding Human Life. That would look something like this:

Oppose:​

Abortion
Cloning
Embryonic stem cell research
Assisted suicide
Euthanasia
Genocide
Torture
Direct and intentional targeting of noncombatants in war or terrorist attacks
The Death Penalty

Support:​

Constitutional protection for the unborn
Legislative efforts to end abortion, assisted suicide, and euthanasia
Laws and programs that encourage childbirth and adoption over abortion
Laws and programs addressing poverty, providing health care, and offering other assistance to pregnant women, children, and families
Health care for all who are sick
Palliative care and hospice care for all who are dying
Efforts to address and overcome hunger, disease, poverty, and violence

I too would love to see it, but I don’t think the GOP base would ever allow a truly pro-life Catholic to be nominated either, and unless somebody primaries Trump in 2020, they most certainly won’t.

 

[ZMystiCat]

Abortion

And to add: Abortion in all cases, including cases of rape, incest, and danger to mother’s life. (This does not include life-saving procedures that, as an undesirable side effect may end the child’s life.) Many politicians seem to cave when challenged on those three points.

 

[Luke6_37]

Luke6_37:

Abortion

And to add: Abortion in all cases, including cases of rape, incest, and danger to mother’s life. (This does not include life-saving procedures that, as an undesirable side effect may end the child’s life.) Many politicians seem to cave when challenged on those three points.

That’s right! Thanks for the correction.

 

[humbleseeker]

I don’t think the GOP base would ever allow a truly pro-life Catholic to be nominated either

That’s debatable and at least in the realm of a possibility. That can’t be said for the Democratic Party, which has embraced its defense of abortion rights as one of its party platforms. Plus it’s support in local politics of stem cell research, euthanasia and assisted suicide.

 

[Luke6_37]

Luke6_37:

I don’t think the GOP base would ever allow a truly pro-life Catholic to be nominated either

That’s debatable and at least in the realm of a possibility. That can’t be said for the Democratic Party, which has embraced its defense of abortion rights as one of its party platforms. Plus it’s support in local politics of stem cell research, euthanasia and assisted suicide.

You never know. Not that long ago, it was the Democrats who were the party of white supremacists. Now they are the party of diversity and inclusion.

 

[FirstFiveEighth]

Several pro-life, truly practicing Catholics have participated in the Republican primary. Off the top of my head, Alan Keyes and Rick Santorum did fairly well, with Santorum coming in runner-up to Romney in 2012. However I do not recall the glowing promotion of them being Catholic politicians by the media, they were instead portrayed as deranged backward hateful social pariahs. I was a bit young for Keyes but I recall Santorum was viciously mocked.

 

[Victoria33]

We visited a Seminary in San Antonio when I was small. I don’t know who ran it. Maybe the Oblates? I know, on the web, one can make a donation and get back some Lourdes water… so as for Catholicism in that city, it certainly has my utmost respect.

 

[Luke6_37]

Santorum was viciously mocked.

It was early in the age of social media, and Dan Savage (who is also Catholic) probably didn’t intend it to go viral the way it did. What Santorum said was bad, but the consequences were too extreme. At least you can now Google his last name & the neologism is no longer the top search result.

 

[Victoria33]

Unless it is quoted, I’m not going to assume what Santorum said was bad respectfully.

That’s all I will say, this is now a bit “off topic” but I don’t think a good man like Santorum should be described as above. This is now a bit gossipy for the record. Also, everyone can read for themselves, the columns of Dan Savage online. Are these kind editorials? Without reference, I won’t cite any statements. Clearly, we can safely say though, some of what Dan Savage has written can not be stated in this forum even. He is a Catholic? Or does he describe himself as “culturally a Catholic”?

That is in his wikipedia biography. Again, anyone can read it for themselves. Apparently, Savage has said from the wikipedia article, some very bad things as well. Maybe even unrepeatable.

Compare that to whatever supposedly bad Santorum said to some of Savage’s statements?

Dan Savage’s columns also deal with sex rather explicitly, homosexual sex. I only read a little bit so I don’t know how far it went but it was far enough for me.

To even bring in Dan Savage in a conversation about Rick Santorum and saying what Santorum said was bad is pretty far fetched.

 

[Victoria33]

You never know. Not that long ago, it was the Democrats who were the party of white supremacists. Now they are the party of diversity and inclusion.

And according to some, infanticide and anti-semitism. It has to be said, Planned Parenthood is a big special interest of the Democrat party, this talk of infanticide did not come out of the blue and abortions until the moment of birth? Well, at least, that must be the inclusion principle at work, 3 weeks or 9 months? Diversity? Maybe not so much in the proportions of abortions with minorities versus whites.

 

[Luke6_37]

Unless it is quoted, I’m not going to assume what Santorum said was bad respectfully.

That’s all I will say, this is now a bit “off topic” but I don’t think a good man like Santorum should be described as above. This is now a bit gossipy for the record. Also, everyone can read for themselves, the columns of Dan Savage online.

It reason why we aren’t using quotes and links is because nobody wants to condone or repeat offensive comments. You are doing the same thing yourself. That’s not gossipy.

some of what Dan Savage has written can not be stated in this forum even. He is a Catholic? Or does he describe himself as “culturally a Catholic”?

If he described himself as a cisgender pansexual, would you be OK with that? Personally, I think the tendency to attach special labels to every aspect of a person’s identity is unnecessary. A person is either Catholic or not Catholic. If a person is Catholic, he or she is either in a state of grace or not. That’s it.

To even bring in Dan Savage in a conversation about Rick Santorum and saying what Santorum said was bad is pretty far fetched.

It’s not far fetched to discuss a Catholic politician on this thread, and the only person making ad hominem judgments is you.

 

[ZMystiCat]

with Santorum coming in runner-up to Romney in 2012

How impressive that is is debatable. Yeah, he rose to be runner-up, but the whole of the 2012 GOP primary was essentially Romney and a turntable of different candidates being built up as his challenger only to fall not long after. Santorum was just one of the candidates on that turntable.

 

[Victoria33]

Santorum campaigned in Iowa in a pickup truck, he had the bad luck of being voted out during the downturn economy of 2008.

His constitutional, citizenship and prolife views, maybe some others as well were basically echoed in 2016 and became the norm. A bit of a blue collar appeal as well.

So a turntable is a metaphor? I wasn’t aware that, other than when an incumbent runs, there are not a number of candidates running.

 

[pnewton]

I would rather him be moral than proud. There might be some moral reason why a Catholic can vote for someone despite these positions. I cannot think of a single moral reason though that a politician can embrace objectively evil positions.

 

[OraLabora]

It would be as enlightening as arguing with my 4 yr old nephew that he cannot, in fact, jump off the roof just because he had a Superman cape on.

Well, actually, he can. And that’s the problem. So you actually need to dialogue with the 4-y.o. to explain to him why it’s a bad idea. It doesn’t mean he can’t play Superman, it means getting him to realize that he isn’t really Superman, and will seriously injure himself if he jumps off the roof.

Mr. Castro might be a devout Catholic, but catechized to the equivalent of a 4-y.o. You have to dialogue with him to make him realize that just because he puts on a Catholic identity, it doesn’t make him true to that identity. You have to convince him that he is risking his immortal soul. Otherwise, if you just yell at him he may try to defy you, and jump off the roof anyway to prove you wrong…

And the first condition to successfully dialogue is to listen. So yes it would be helpful to know why he thinks the way he does.

Of course this is politics. We don’t have any authority over him other than the one we exercise at the ballot box, and we are certainly free to exercise that authority with total freedom. It’s our right. Or at least yours in the US. I’m Canadian and get enough grief from our own politicians

 

[pnewton]

For Catholics, I think the root cause is that we have failed to articulate and defend a consistent ethic of life.

I have no doubt about that. I have expressed previously that I believe we will never address abortion as a life issue, where the definition of human life is debated, until we address capital punishment, where it is clear. That is just my own belief based on how truthy it sounds. Silly I know. But the point of inconsistency is legitimate.

 

[Luke6_37]

Luke6_37:

For Catholics, I think the root cause is that we have failed to articulate and defend a consistent ethic of life.

I have no doubt about that. I have expressed previously that I believe we will never address abortion as a life issue, where the definition of human life is debated, until we address capital punishment, where it is clear. That is just my own belief based on how truthy it sounds. Silly I know. But the point of inconsistency is legitimate.

I have had people on this forum try to convince me that since fewer and less deserving lives are lost due to capital punishment, it is a lesser issue that can be compromised in order to go after the bigger issue of abortion.

In my mind, it would be a lot easier to get the state to stop directly killing prisoners, so why not go after the low hanging fruit first? In the process, you can educate people about what it really means to respect the Life and Dignity of the Human Person, regardless of personal merit.

Trying end abortion with a patchwork ethic of life makes it really hard to convince people that Catholics are not hypocrites, but sincerely believe all people (good, bad, healthy, disabled, etc) are created in the image of God.