Julian of Norwich

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Julian of Norwich should be a Catholic saint. The most profound of her visions is the apparent belief in universal salvation… she condemns no one.

Those words that were on the image that you shared sounds like mystical wisdom… I take it to heart.
 
Robert_Sock said:
Julian of Norwich should be a Catholic saint. The most profound of her visions is the apparent belief in universal salvation… she condemns no one.

Those words that were on the image that you shared sounds like mystical wisdom… I take it to heart.
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Yeah and the retreat master we had, spoke on then Pope Benedict XVI’s Spe Salvi and Julian of Norwich.

It came across as universal salvation and a fellow retreatent claimed that "universal salvation,’’ was condemned as heresy by the Church.

I’ve yet to find that condemnation to date.

Jim
 
She is a favorite of mine as well! Thanks for posting, and the image link came through fine.

When she tells us, “All shall be well,” she never says just exactly how this will come to be. The “how” of it all was not revealed to her, but I still take great comfort in the thought.
 
christofirst said:
She is a favorite of mine as well! Thanks for posting, and the image link came through fine.

When she tells us, “All shall be well,” she never says just exactly how this will come to be. The “how” of it all was not revealed to her, but I still take great comfort in the thought.
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“All shall be well,” was an issue on our retreat talk.

The priest said that Julian was asked about souls in hell for all eternity, what will happen to them at the end of time?

Through God’s mercy, “All shall be well,” was the answer he gave us.

Jim
 
I love Julian of Norwich! She has been beloved to Anglicans for a long time so I am glad you are discovering her.

Julian is one of our female mystics who speaks of both God and Jesus as ‘Mother.’

‘Jesus Christ therefore, who himself overcame evil with good, is our true Mother. We received our ‘Being’ from Him * and this is where His Maternity starts * And with it comes the gentle Protection and Guard of Love which will never ceases to surround us.’

and

‘Just as God is our Father, so God is also our Mother.’

But of course her ‘All shall be well, and all shall be well, and all manner of thing shall be well.’ has gotten many of us through dark times.
 
JimR-OCDS said:
The more I read about her, the more I like her, Julian of Norwich.

I saw this and hope it shows up;

scontent-lga1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-xpt1/v/t1.0-9/11053175_10204063371854155_6840571327913284969_n.jpg?oh=3aa92b58297fdade2ce1edc69a7ae81c&oe=565A9CA1

Jim
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I have read some of her “shewings” and it left me with an odd feeling.It did seem like she was skirting on heresy at some points,perhaps semi gnostic.

I understand “mother” can be an analogy of sorts,but now we have the Church as our mother,Mary as our mother,God the Father as our mother and also Jesus and the Holy Spirit. That gets too confusing for me.

I did not at all feel comfortable with her vision of the Blessed Mother Mary as a priestess.That probably was symbolic or something but weird non the less.
 
cjforJesus said:
I did not at all feel comfortable with her vision of the Blessed Mother Mary as a priestess.That probably was symbolic or something but weird non the less.
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Perhaps that is why feminists love her. Many of the mystics - especially the medievalists - play with gender types.

Catherine of Sienna, Hildegarde of Bingen, Mechtild of Magdeburg…
 
Robert_Sock said:
Julian of Norwich should be a Catholic saint. The most profound of her visions is the apparent belief in universal salvation… she condemns no one.

Those words that were on the image that you shared sounds like mystical wisdom… I take it to heart.
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Which is exactly why she should NOT be a saint. Universal Salvation is a heresy.
 
Deo_Gratias42 said:
Which is exactly why she should NOT be a saint. Universal Salvation is a heresy.
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Can you please cite evidence for it being a heresy? There exists saints in the Church who have believed in universal salvation. If heresy, why does the Church not label her as a heretic?
 
JimR-OCDS said:
Yeah and the retreat master we had, spoke on then Pope Benedict XVI’s Spe Salvi and Julian of Norwich.

It came across as universal salvation and a fellow retreatent claimed that "universal salvation,’’ was condemned as heresy by the Church.

I’ve yet to find that condemnation to date.

Jim
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Pope Pius IX’s Syallabus of Errors, Jesus, the Bible, etc. Hell is real and people go there…for eternity.
 
ComplineSanFran said:
Perhaps that is why feminists love her. Many of the mystics - especially the medievalists - play with gender types.

Catherine of Sienna, Hildegarde of Bingen, Mechtild of Magdeburg…
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I may be wrong,but I believe most of the medieval mystics were from wealthy families,hence their ability to write so well.
The average peasant farmer could neither read nor write.
 
Deo_Gratias42 said:
Pope Pius IX’s Syallabus of Errors, Jesus, the Bible, etc. Hell is real and people go there…for eternity.
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Yeah, I understand and it’s what I had always believed.

However, Pope Pius IX’s doesn’t address universal salvation in the Syllabus
ewtn.com/library/PAPALDOC/P9SYLL.HTM
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I. PANTHEISM, NATURALISM AND ABSOLUTE RATIONALISM
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But Pope Benedict XVI, seems to give a different understanding of salvation and eternity, which seems to contradict my understanding.

I’ll admit that Pope Benedict XVI was not always easy to read.

Jim
 
cjforJesus said:
I may be wrong,but I believe most of the medieval mystics were from wealthy families,hence their ability to write so well.
The average peasant farmer could neither read nor write.
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I think you are quite correct.
 
From Pope Benedict XVI
I would like to emphasize another point. The Catechism of the Catholic Church cites the words of Julian of Norwich when it explains the viewpoint of the Catholic faith on an argument that never ceases to be a provocation to all believers (cf. nn. 304-313, 314).
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If God is supremely good and wise, why do evil and the suffering of innocents exist? And the Saints themselves asked this very question. Illumined by faith, they give an answer that opens our hearts to trust and hope: in the mysterious designs of Providence, God can draw a greater good even from evil, as Julian of Norwich wrote: “Here I was taught by the grace of God that I should steadfastly hold me in the Faith … and that … I should take my stand on and earnestly believe in … that ‘all manner of thing shall be well”’ (The Revelations of Divine Love, Chapter 32).
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Yes, dear brothers and sisters, God’s promises are ever greater than our expectations. If we present to God, to his immense love, the purest and deepest desires of our heart, we shall never be disappointed. “And all will be well”, “all manner of things shall be well”: this is the final message that Julian of Norwich transmits to us and that I am also proposing to you today. Many thanks.
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w2.vatican.va/content/benedict-xvi/en/audiences/2010/documents/hf_ben-xvi_aud_20101201.html
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Jim
 
cheezey said:
Must be time to return to my standard signature.

😃
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👍 I’ve always liked that signature.

If Lady Julian suffers from controversy, it is mostly from speculative commentators writing about her revelations, possibly to bolster their own ideas or an agenda. Sometimes they go too far in ascribing meaning to her work. It is important to try to find a good translation of her archaic middle English, or to read several translations in order to get the gist of what she tells us, and to see where translator bias might be slipping in.

For me, hers is a marvelous message of hope and optimism, and Pope Emeritus Benedict’s expert endorsement, along with so many others, tells me my interest in her writings is well founded.

I will add this recommendation for those who are worried over orthodoxy, but still want to read Dame Julian. Probably the most conservative translation and commentary I have read on her Revelations is The Complete Julian of Norwich, by Father John-Julian, OJN, who is an Episcopal priest, but from what I see as a Catholic, he takes great pains to show what Julian actually says, and where her message may have been hijacked by those perhaps looking to push the boundaries of orthodoxy a bit too far.
 
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