Just found out Best Friends are "swingers"?!

[EasterJoy]

I have dealt with married swingers during my life. My advice is to listen to the Apostle Paul’s advice and not be yoked with them. I can’t say anymore without being dinged by a moderator.

*These people are waterless springs and mists driven by a gale; for them the gloom of darkness has been reserved. For, talking empty bombast, they seduce with licentious desires of the flesh those who have barely escaped from people who live in error. They promise them freedom, though they themselves are slaves of corruption, for a person is a slave of whatever overcomes him. For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of our Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first. For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them. What is expressed in the true proverb has happened to them, “The dog returns to its own vomit,” and “A bathed sow returns to wallowing in the mire.”*2 Pet. 2:17-22

 

[EasterJoy]

You know, these people have been friends for years and they deserve to know why things are suddenly awkward.

Since it was the husband, perhaps your husband can have a private talk with him to say what was seen on the computer and listen to what he has to say. Perhaps he is the only culprit. Perhaps it’s a secret from his wife. Perhaps they are both swingers. Maybe they are considering giving it up anyway. You never know. Maybe there is a reason you found out and they may respond by backing away from that lifestyle. There’s a good chance they’ll back off from your friendship and continue there activities, but what if you could influence them in a good way? I’d say don’t give up on them yet. Give them a chance. Otherwise, at least they know why things went sour.

This could work, depending on the friends. I wouldn’t try it on just anyone, it certainly carries some dangers, but the OP and her husband may decide that it is the best course.

 

[MaryT777]

You know, these people have been friends for years and they deserve to know why things are suddenly awkward.

Since it was the husband, perhaps your husband can have a private talk with him to say what was seen on the computer and listen to what he has to say. Perhaps he is the only culprit. Perhaps it’s a secret from his wife. Perhaps they are both swingers. Maybe they are considering giving it up anyway. You never know. Maybe there is a reason you found out and they may respond by backing away from that lifestyle. There’s a good chance they’ll back off from your friendship and continue there activities, but what if you could influence them in a good way? I’d say don’t give up on them yet. Give them a chance. Otherwise, at least they know why things went sour.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Not that they never fail, but that on the big issues they know their right hand from their left. That they do not reject basic moral standards.

It goes back to charity. If one of us were shunning morality in such a serious way, in a way that risked our eternal doom, would we think it a disservice for our friends to utterly reject what we were doing, and reject us for advocating in favor of it? I hope not. Some kinds of tolerance are compassionate and may even be demanded by basic humility, yes, but some other kinds of tolerance put pavement and lights on the road to perdition.

No, to tolerate this would be like tolerating it while friends advocated for going out and getting drunk or shooting up drugs. No way, no can do. The least one would have to do is to get up and leave.

Here’s the thing about Catholicism, pretty much everyone is sinning in such a serious way that they risk hell.

Common Mortal Sins Include:
Not attending Mass on Sunday
Not attending Mass on a Holy Day of Obligation
Masturbation
Intercourse that ends with a man ejaculating anywhere but the vagina
Drug addiction
Pollution
Obscene Wealth
Getting involved with any of the extremely common New Age stuff including Yoga, Astrology, and Ouji Boards
Entering into an invalid marriage and any sexual relations that follow
Supporting an invalid marriage, or any other mortal sin that someone else commits
Taking the Lord’s name in vain
Intentionally eating meat on Fridays during Lent
Taking the Eucharist if XYZ requirements aren’t met (confession, fasting prior)
Willful drunkenness
Any of the very common seven deadly sins (Especially gluttony is a common one people fall into)
Lying

There are good, honest, moral, loving people who fall into any one of these “sins” and could end up trying to justify it to their friends while resisting urges to change. But what makes swinging so much worse than any of these other mortal sins?

Why can’t you just recognize that these people have been good and true friends to you, and that’s a rarity in today’s world? Why not make your disapproval known (if you must) and then move on, leaving them to deal with their own sexual issues? Because who knows, the next set of friends you make may have even darker secrets that you’ll never know about.

 

[Burt_Macklin]

I have to know, what is your threshold for ‘holy’ enough or ‘righteous’ enough to be your friend?

So if one of your friends were a Klansman, or something else really unsavory, you would still be good friends? I’d be really surprised if you didn’t have a limit at which you wouldn’t be friends with someone.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

So if one of your friends were a Klansman and you found out about you would still be good friends? I’d be really surprised if you didn’t have a limit at which you wouldn’t be friends with someone.

That’s not exactly swinging. This couple is engaging in something privately that they have not even talked about with the OP, much less tried to include her in.

I wouldn’t be friends with a Klansman* for a lot of reasons. The whole point of being a Klansman is that you are trying to spread your views. The swingers aren’t doing that. Klansman seek to harm people, swingers do not. Klansman spread their message to those who don’t want to hear it, the swingers in question have kept it to themselves. I couldn’t be friends with a Klansman because at every social gathering I have at least one black guy, at least one Catholic, and at least one homosexual. I’m not sure how a Klansman would function there but I don’t think it would be good.

*Now, if I had a friend that I had been close to for a long time, who never shared any hints that she might be racist, much less to the point of working with the Klan, and I saw something damning like this on her computer, I would respect her privacy and our friendship until such a time that it is made and issue, should that ever occur.

 

[MaryT777]

Here’s the thing about Catholicism, pretty much everyone is sinning in such a serious way that they risk hell.

Common Mortal Sins Include:
Not attending Mass on Sunday
Not attending Mass on a Holy Day of Obligation
Masturbation
Intercourse that ends with a man ejaculating anywhere but the vagina
Drug addiction
Pollution
Obscene Wealth
Getting involved with any of the extremely common New Age stuff including Yoga, Astrology, and Ouji Boards
Entering into an invalid marriage and any sexual relations that follow
Supporting an invalid marriage, or any other mortal sin that someone else commits
Taking the Lord’s name in vain
Intentionally eating meat on Fridays during Lent
Taking the Eucharist if XYZ requirements aren’t met (confession, fasting prior)
Willful drunkenness
Any of the very common seven deadly sins (Especially gluttony is a common one people fall into)
Lying

There are good, honest, moral, loving people who fall into any one of these “sins” and could end up trying to justify it to their friends while resisting urges to change. But what makes swinging so much worse than any of these other mortal sins?

Why can’t you just recognize that these people have been good and true friends to you, and that’s a rarity in today’s world? Why not make your disapproval known (if you must) and then move on, leaving them to deal with their own sexual issues? Because who knows, the next set of friends you make may have even darker secrets that you’ll never know about.

You make a valid point and If I had to cross off my list all the people who have engaged in such things as even Missing Mass or eating meat on Fridays regretfully I’d have to cross off quite a few friends. That said if they had to cross me off for any sin I committed
I can say I am no saint and would not want to be judged that way.

Mary.

 

[Do_Good_Then_Go]

Aah, no, one of the pages he had open was a reddit thread in which he was actively responding about his swinger experiences. He was responding under his username that many people who know him know in the comments.

This sounds like you read the thread? How do you know the responses you’re talking about were from your friend? Do you know his username on the site? Usernames can be similar - you see it on CAF, many of the usernames are quite similar and it sometimes gets a bit confusing when, say ‘User_22’ and ‘User22’ and ‘User 22’ (I just made those up, I hope they aren’t actual CAF usernames!) are all responding to a thread. Or when User_22 seems to suddenly have a different point of view, until you realise that you were thinking of previous posts by User22. Also, User22 on one site is likely to be a totally different person to User22 on another site.

You were the one who asked to use the computer so it’s not as though those web pages were left open with the intention of you seeing them or anything like that. If you’ve been friends for a long time and there’s never been a hint of anything like this, I’d leave it for now. It could be totally innocent, it could be somewhat less than innocent but still nothing that would affect your friendship, or it could be that they really are swingers and you may feel that would definitely affect your friendship. People can have all sorts of secrets but you say you live close by and see them three or four times a week so if they are swingers they’re doing a very good job of keeping it from you. Why not give them the benefit of the doubt? And as another poster said, from what I understand swingers are not looking to swing with people who have no interest in doing so - there would be no point.

How old are they? Are there any teens in the house who may have been using the computer? Could another visitor have been using their computer? There’s all sorts of possibilities here.

I always think that when you use someone else’s computer you run the risk of finding out something you shouldn’t know or don’t want to know - whether that be their income or a confidential email or a secret of some kind.

 

[Miss_Felicity]

You make a valid point and If I had to cross off my list all the people who have engaged in such things as even Missing Mass or eating meat on Fridays regretfully I’d have to cross off quite a few friends. That said if they had to cross me off for any sin I committed
I can say I am no saint and would not want to be judged that way.

Mary.

Agreed!

This sounds like you read the thread? How do you know the responses you’re talking about were from your friend? Do you know his username on the site? Usernames can be similar - you see it on CAF, many of the usernames are quite similar and it sometimes gets a bit confusing when, say ‘User_22’ and ‘User22’ and ‘User 22’ (I just made those up, I hope they aren’t actual CAF usernames!) are all responding to a thread. Or when User_22 seems to suddenly have a different point of view, until you realise that you were thinking of previous posts by User22. Also, User22 on one site is likely to be a totally different person to User22 on another site.

You were the one who asked to use the computer so it’s not as though those web pages were left open with the intention of you seeing them or anything like that. If you’ve been friends for a long time and there’s never been a hint of anything like this, I’d leave it for now. It could be totally innocent, it could be somewhat less than innocent but still nothing that would affect your friendship, or it could be that they really are swingers and you may feel that would definitely affect your friendship. People can have all sorts of secrets but you say you live close by and see them three or four times a week so if they are swingers they’re doing a very good job of keeping it from you. Why not give them the benefit of the doubt? And as another poster said, from what I understand swingers are not looking to swing with people who have no interest in doing so - there would be no point.

Great points to consider. My boyfriend had an issue with a username on a message board; the username he chose happened to be close to that of a guy who was trolling and causing problems. Once word spread that he wasn’t the guy that was being a jerk it ended up being okay but it happens. I don’t use this name anywhere else for example.

I still think OP doesn’t have enough information to end a friendship and I don’t think it would be appropriate to ask about it. Does it really make good sense to be offended at the prospect that a couple is not keeping their sex life to one man and one woman in marriage but then think that somebody outside that one man and one woman deserve reassurance about their sexual proclivities. That seems impossibly hypocritical to me.

 

[ClearWater]

I have to know, what is your threshold for ‘holy’ enough or ‘righteous’ enough to be your friend?

I guess I’d need to be in the situation. Each person needs to make his/her own judgements according to the circumstances and what they’d feel comfortable with. I don’t know, since I’ve never been in that particular set of circumstances. However, I think I’d be uncomfortable with that.

The OP seemed to also be uncomfortable, had a history of something in the past, making this yet more uncomfortable. So, I said that was an option. One’s free to take it or leave it.

Do I actually have a list? No. Do you?

It’s also not good having no criteria at all.

 

[ClearWater]

The problem that can come up with having agnostic/atheist friends are things like are in the OP, where since the people don’t believe in God, the 10 commandments, it often happens, there seems to be no guidelines, at all, for behavior.

Now, not everyone’s a saint, but agnostics often seem to have NO criteria, at all for behavior, goodness, badness…appropriateness, which is why this problem comes up.

With people of faith, it comes up, because they have a criteria but aren’t adhering to it. With agnostics, they don’t have one. That’s why I’d have difficulty being friends with agnostics and atheists…no moral compass.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Well, that’s certainly your prerogative. I can tell you that I have very high moral standards, asdoes my husband, my brother, and countless friends, relatives, and mentors in my life. I wouldn’t be friends with anyone that didn’t have moral standards, because quite frankly, sociopathy scares me.

 

[maryjk]

There are good, honest, moral, loving people who fall into any one of these “sins” and could end up trying to justify it to their friends while resisting urges to change. But what makes swinging so much worse than any of these other mortal sins?

First, I agree with you that simply seeing something on a web site on a computer is no reason to drop someone as a friend.

But, I also have to say that someone falling into sin is VERY different than someone living a life of sin.

There is also a difference if someone talks all about their sin, as if nothing is wrong.

So, someone telling me that they are swingers, and detailing their exploits would be different than some that is a swinger, but I never find out. (Or if I “found out” through snooping.)

Someone missing Mass, once, would be different than someone living with their lover.

Someone eating at home, too close to the reception of Communion would be different than someone chewing on a doughnut while in line for Communion.

 

[maryjk]

The problem that can come up with having agnostic/atheist friends are things like are in the OP, where since the people don’t believe in God, the 10 commandments, it often happens, there seems to be no guidelines, at all, for behavior.

Now, not everyone’s a saint, but agnostics often seem to have NO criteria, at all for behavior, goodness, badness…appropriateness, which is why this problem comes up.

With people of faith, it comes up, because they have a criteria but aren’t adhering to it. **With agnostics, they don’t have one. ** That’s why I’d have difficulty being friends with agnostics and atheists…no moral compass.

Wow. You must not know many agnostics or atheists.

Other than the crazies I heard about on the news, EVERY, to a man, agnostic and atheist I know have morals. Every one.

In fact, of the people I know, the ones that cheat on their spouses, lie on their taxes or behave pretty much as they please are the same ones that claim they are “Christian.”

 

[ClearWater]

I was married to an agnostic. No moral compass.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Wow. You must not know many agnostics or atheists.

Other than the crazies I heard about on the news, EVERY, to a man, agnostic and atheist I know have morals. Every one.

In fact, of the people I know, the ones that cheat on their spouses, lie on their taxes or behave pretty much as they please are the same ones that claim they are “Christian.”

I may have you confused with another poster, but isn’t your husband an atheist or agnostic?

 

[maryjk]

I may have you confused with another poster, but isn’t your husband an atheist or agnostic?

No confusion. He is.

And he is a very moral man.

 

[ClearWater]

Well, I don’t know about everybody else, but the OP’s agnostic friends seem to be having difficulty now with morality.

 

[EasterJoy]

Here’s the thing about Catholicism, pretty much everyone is sinning in such a serious way that they risk hell.

Common Mortal Sins Include:
Not attending Mass on Sunday
Not attending Mass on a Holy Day of Obligation
Masturbation
Intercourse that ends with a man ejaculating anywhere but the vagina
Drug addiction
Pollution
Obscene Wealth
Getting involved with any of the extremely common New Age stuff including Yoga, Astrology, and Ouji Boards
Entering into an invalid marriage and any sexual relations that follow
Supporting an invalid marriage, or any other mortal sin that someone else commits
Taking the Lord’s name in vain
Intentionally eating meat on Fridays during Lent
Taking the Eucharist if XYZ requirements aren’t met (confession, fasting prior)
Willful drunkenness
Any of the very common seven deadly sins (Especially gluttony is a common one people fall into)
Lying

There are good, honest, moral, loving people who fall into any one of these “sins” and could end up trying to justify it to their friends while resisting urges to change. But what makes swinging so much worse than any of these other mortal sins?

Why can’t you just recognize that these people have been good and true friends to you, and that’s a rarity in today’s world? Why not make your disapproval known (if you must) and then move on, leaving them to deal with their own sexual issues? Because who knows, the next set of friends you make may have even darker secrets that you’ll never know about.

I’m curious where you got the list. Culpability for the abuse of drugs, for instance, can be lowered if there is a physical addiction, because freedom of will is reduced by the physical addiction.

As I said rather clearly, I was not referring to people who were repeatedly trying and failing and getting up and trying again. I was referring to people who preach that moral law is irrelevant, even that moral law held by most people who aren’t even religious. Were I that person doing that, it would be a favor if my friends were to say to me, “I don’t think so, Tim”, just as if I were trying to justify drug abuse as a personal choice that is no one else’s business. Blaming your friends when your drug addiction or your flaunting of your marriage vows costs you friendships is simply compounding the original error with denial.

 

[maryjk]

Well, I don’t know about everybody else, but the OP’s agnostic friends seem to be having difficulty now with morality.

As does the OP, who was snooping by reading what was on the computer.

I am sure when her best friend said she could use the computer to send an email, the friend didn’t mean, “Oh, and read the forum posts that my husband made.”

That would be like looking in the medicine cabinet when someone allows you to use their bathroom. Quite the invasion of privacy.