Just found out Best Friends are "swingers"?!

[BlueEyedLady]

Just an FYI-You are one of my favorite posters. You’re always very kind but firm in what you believe.

First, I agree with you that simply seeing something on a web site on a computer is no reason to drop someone as a friend.

But, I also have to say that someone falling into sin is VERY different than someone living a life of sin.
I made that list with the circumstances surrounding the OP in mind. I figured that those were all things that someone could do, and then be found out in an innocent way (like looking at a computer) and then try to justify when called out on. If someone is flaunting those behaviors, that’s a problem.

There is also a difference if someone talks all about their sin, as if nothing is wrong. Once again, I was assuming similar circumstances as the OP.

So, someone telling me that they are swingers, and detailing their exploits would be different than some that is a swinger, but I never find out. (Or if I “found out” through snooping.)

Someone missing Mass, once, would be different than someone living with their lover.

Someone eating at home, too close to the reception of Communion would be different than someone chewing on a doughnut while in line for Communion.

 

[Kit15]

As does the OP, who was snooping by reading what was on the computer.

I am sure when her best friend said she could use the computer to send an email, the friend didn’t mean, “Oh, and read the forum posts that my husband made.”

That would be like looking in the medicine cabinet when someone allows you to use their bathroom. Quite the invasion of privacy.

Indeed. If I have to use a friend’s computer, I’ll open a completely new browsing window to avoid looking at what they are looking at.

I’d be pretty dang ticked if someone used my computer and looked through my tabs. Even if what I’m browsing is not sinful at all…could be my comic-con photos or the inner workings of my online store…it’s nobody else’s beeswax.

 

[maryjk]

Just an FYI-You are one of my favorite posters. You’re always very kind but firm in what you believe.

Thank you. I try not to be obnoxious. It doesn’t always work, but I try.

I made that list with the circumstances surrounding the OP in mind. I figured that those were all things that someone could do, and then be found out in an innocent way (like looking at a computer) and then try to justify when called out on. If someone is flaunting those behaviors, that’s a problem.

We are in agreement.

There are sins that I would not be able to accept, but all of them would have to be “in my face.”

It is true that there are no private sins. But there are some sins that we will never know about unless they broadcast them.

Heck, I lived with my husband to be for almost two years. We had friends that had no idea that we weren’t married. Same with many neighbors. It wasn’t until they got a wedding invite, or saw me in my dress that they realized that we hadn’t been married.

Now, I am sure there are people that would never hang out with fornicators. But unless you ask to see someone’s wedding certificate, you might not know.

 

[mandajane]

Well, just got back from speaking with them this evening. They invited my husband and I over for dinner.

First, in response to some posters - The only reason it would make me uncomfortable is that I have a lot of barriers I put up between myself and other people, for my own emotional comfort. Being propositioned by strangers doesn’t phase me, I have a lot of barriers in the way. But these are my close friends, who I have let down a lot of my guard around. I let down my guard because I felt safe around them. This made me question that feeling of safety.

My husband and I went over for dinner tonight, and they made it pretty clear that they’d left the thread up intentionally, because they wanted my husband and I to consider swinging with them.

I’m not sure how to react right now. I mean, I’m obviously not going to do it, but I am very uncomfortable.

 

[BlueEyedLady]

Anyone who would ask you to violate your marriage like that is someone you should stay far away from.

 

[MJJean]

Well, just got back from speaking with them this evening. They invited my husband and I over for dinner.

First, in response to some posters - The only reason it would make me uncomfortable is that I have a lot of barriers I put up between myself and other people, for my own emotional comfort. Being propositioned by strangers doesn’t phase me, I have a lot of barriers in the way. But these are my close friends, who I have let down a lot of my guard around. I let down my guard because I felt safe around them. This made me question that feeling of safety.

My husband and I went over for dinner tonight, and they made it pretty clear that they’d left the thread up intentionally, because they wanted my husband and I to consider swinging with them.

I’m not sure how to react right now. I mean, I’m obviously not going to do it, but I am very uncomfortable.

I used to hang out at a Goth club. I went once on a lark, met some very nice people, kept going to see those friends and because I got into techno. One of the girls I knew by name and would wave and casually chat with every week decided to ask me out. I had no idea she was gay, felt real awkward and uncomfortable because I am not gay or even bi, and briefly wondered if we could still be friendly once I turned her down. So, I formed a polite response and stammered through it. She accepted my decline gracefully, we started chatting about other things, it was never brought up again.

These people are your friends. They are also swingers. They like you and your husband and decided to ask. No real harm in that. Just politely decline and let it go. If it never comes up again, friendship as usual. If they repeatedly ask, end the friendship.

 

[MaryT777]

Well, just got back from speaking with them this evening. They invited my husband and I over for dinner.

First, in response to some posters - The only reason it would make me uncomfortable is that I have a lot of barriers I put up between myself and other people, for my own emotional comfort. Being propositioned by strangers doesn’t phase me, I have a lot of barriers in the way. But these are my close friends, who I have let down a lot of my guard around. I let down my guard because I felt safe around them. This made me question that feeling of safety.

My husband and I went over for dinner tonight, and they made it pretty clear that they’d left the thread up intentionally, because they wanted my husband and I to consider swinging with them.

I’m not sure how to react right now. I mean, I’m obviously not going to do it, but I am very uncomfortable.

You must check your Email at their house frequently for them to leave this up intentionally. Time to end the friendship with anyone that would ask you to break your vows in such a sneaky manner via computer hoping you’d see it; or even worse implying it over dinner.

Mary.

 

[Cristiano]

Well, just got back from speaking with them this evening. They invited my husband and I over for dinner.

First, in response to some posters - The only reason it would make me uncomfortable is that I have a lot of barriers I put up between myself and other people, for my own emotional comfort. Being propositioned by strangers doesn’t phase me, I have a lot of barriers in the way. But these are my close friends, who I have let down a lot of my guard around. I let down my guard because I felt safe around them. This made me question that feeling of safety.

My husband and I went over for dinner tonight, and they made it pretty clear that they’d left the thread up intentionally, because they wanted my husband and I to consider swinging with them.

I’m not sure how to react right now. I mean, I’m obviously not going to do it, but I am very uncomfortable.

It amazes me how people are willing to risk something important like a solid friendship for a little bit of extra sexual pleasure. It is also about stupidity, what were they thinking?

Time to drop them and to look for someone more respectful of your life choices.

 

[Cristiano]

I used to hang out at a Goth club. I went once on a lark, met some very nice people, kept going to see those friends and because I got into techno. One of the girls I knew by name and would wave and casually chat with every week decided to ask me out. I had no idea she was gay, felt real awkward and uncomfortable because I am not gay or even bi, and briefly wondered if we could still be friendly once I turned her down. So, I formed a polite response and stammered through it. She accepted my decline gracefully, we started chatting about other things, it was never brought up again.

These people are your friends. They are also swingers. They like you and your husband and decided to ask. No real harm in that. Just politely decline and let it go. If it never comes up again, friendship as usual. If they repeatedly ask, end the friendship.

Would you appreciate if your husband had a female friend and she proposed him for sex? Would you trust her around your husband any longer?

 

[Do_Good_Then_Go]

Well, just got back from speaking with them this evening. They invited my husband and I over for dinner.

First, in response to some posters - The only reason it would make me uncomfortable is that I have a lot of barriers I put up between myself and other people, for my own emotional comfort. Being propositioned by strangers doesn’t phase me, I have a lot of barriers in the way. But these are my close friends, who I have let down a lot of my guard around. I let down my guard because I felt safe around them. This made me question that feeling of safety.

My husband and I went over for dinner tonight, and they made it pretty clear that they’d left the thread up intentionally, because they wanted my husband and I to consider swinging with them.

I’m not sure how to react right now. I mean, I’m obviously not going to do it, but I am very uncomfortable.

Wow, well that changes things and is really disappointing. But do you use their computer often? I don’t understand that bit of it…

Personally, I would have a really hard time with this and I don’t think I’d be able to continue the friendship. I wouldn’t necessarily cut off all contact or avoid speaking to them in the street or anything like that but certainly there’d no more going over to their house three or four times a week.

 

[EasterJoy]

Anyone who would ask you to violate your marriage like that is someone you should stay far away from.

Yes! Doing it within your own marriage is one thing and even brazenly claiming there is nothing wrong with it is another, but to have a couple mutually proposition me and my husband simultaneously would be beyond the pale. I don’t think I could look at them, let alone look at them looking at me! (It would probably be more like :nunchuk

Forgive, sure. Reconcile and return to the friendship, uh-uh. No way.

 

[FriendlyFace]

Yes! Doing it within your own marriage is one thing and even brazenly claiming there is nothing wrong with it is another, but to have a couple mutually proposition me and my husband simultaneously would be beyond the pale. I don’t think I could look at them, let alone look at them looking at me! (It would probably be more like :nunchuk

Forgive, sure. Reconcile and return to the friendship, uh-uh. No way.

Do not be misled: “Bad company corrupts good character.” 1 Corinthians 15:33

As others have said, it would be wise to avoid these friends. Even if they never get you to join in with their swinging-- which it doesn’t sound like they would, though not for lack of desiring to-- they are only likely to be a bad influence at this point. It hurts to lose friends, but your marriage is more important, and since they definitely seem to want to pull you down with them, it would be wiser to steer clear of them as much as possible in my opinion.

 

[maryjk]

Anyone who would ask you to violate your marriage like that is someone you should stay far away from.

Oh, most definitely.

It is different to suspect something. It is totally different for you to know it and for them to be “in your face” about it…

 

[EasterJoy]

Do not be misled: “Bad company corrupts good character.” 1 Corinthians 15:33

As others have said, it would be wise to avoid these friends. Even if they never get you to join in with their swinging-- which it doesn’t sound like they would, though not for lack of desiring to-- they are only likely to be a bad influence at this point. It hurts to lose friends, but your marriage is more important, and since they definitely seem to want to pull you down with them, it would be wiser to steer clear of them as much as possible in my opinion.

I am only saying that to be directly propositioned is the most offensive of all. I don’t see how one looks the other way from that.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

I was married to an agnostic. No moral compass.

Most of my family are agnostic/atheist and I have many friends and acquaintances who are the same. No moral compass, I agree, What they think is morality is merely their opinion based on personal desire and what society allows and dictates at the moment. That is all.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

My husband and I went over for dinner tonight, and they made it pretty clear that they’d left the thread up intentionally, because they wanted my husband and I to consider swinging with them.

I’m not sure how to react right now. I mean, I’m obviously not going to do it, but I am very uncomfortable.

My goodness. Disgusting.

Maybe you need to take a little break from these people and see if you can handle continuing with the friendship or if you can’t. They risked this happening so they should be prepared for a negative reaction and end of friendship if that is what you choose to do. It is quite obvious that sex is their priority and that they are willing to sacrifice other things for it.

 

[EasterJoy]

Most of my family are agnostic/atheist and I have many friends and acquaintances who are the same. No moral compass, I agree, What they think is morality is merely their opinion based on personal desire and what society allows and dictates at the moment. That is all.

Oregon is a very a-religious state, so you run into more people with moral fiber and no binding religion…maybe a vague idea that a deity exists, but really agnostic and yet with a quite active sense of duty and a binding societal covenant by reason of being human. Probably in other areas the agnostics and atheists are drawn more from those who find a binding morality personally repugnant, and so reject religion on those grounds.

 

[Contra_Mundum_1]

Oregon is a very a-religious state, so you run into more people with moral fiber and no binding religion…maybe a vague idea that a deity exists, but really agnostic and yet with a quite active sense of duty and a binding societal covenant by reason of being human. Probably in other areas the agnostics and atheists are drawn more from those who find a binding morality personally repugnant, and so reject religion on those grounds.

The underlined: yes, this is dictated by society in which they live. This morality that secular people in the West accept is still based on Christian principles, and is therefore in many instances not in opposition to what we believe. But the point it that these people, no matter how well meaning and loving they are, take their morality from their secular surroundings which are always relative. Only religion offers morality that is objective and absolute. What secularists believe is up for grabs and depends on ideological trends. So if morality is not objective and absolute it is relative. It is only logical that secularists can only be relativists because they simply can’t justify objective morality. Ontologically speaking, the very idea of objective and universal is not possible in their worldview. It makes no sense.

 

[EasterJoy]

The underlined: yes, this is dictated by society in which they live. This morality that secular people in the West accept is still based on Christian principles, and is therefore in many instances not in opposition to what we believe. But the point it that these people, no matter how well meaning and loving they are, take their morality from their secular surroundings which are always relative. Only religion offers morality that is objective and absolute. What secularists believe is up for grabs and depends on ideological trends. So if morality is not objective and absolute it is relative. It is only logical that secularists can only be relativists because they simply can’t justify objective morality. Ontologically speaking, the very idea of objective and universal is not possible in their worldview. It makes no sense.

I can’t go so far as that, because I had a philosophy professor who was a total atheist and yet who did not in the least think that morality was relative. He thought it was something that reason could discover. His morality certainly was not any more fluid than (I am afraid I have to say it) many religious people I know, and probably far more immune to fashion than theirs. Those who consider themselves progressives are particularly prone to moral relativism.

C. S. Lewis put it this way in The Screwtape Letters:

*I note what you say about guiding our patient’s reading and taking care that he sees a good deal of his materialist friend. But are you not being a trifle naif? It sounds as if you supposed that argument was the way to keep him out of the Enemy’s clutches. That might have been so if he had lived a few centuries earlier. **At that time the humans still knew pretty well when a thing was proved and when it was not; and if it was proved they really believed it. They still connected thinking with doing and were prepared to alter their way of life as the result of a chain of reasoning. But what with the weekly press and other such weapons we have largely altered that. *Your man has been accustomed, ever since he was a boy, to have a dozen incompatible philosophies dancing about together inside his head. He doesn’t think of doctrines as primarily “true” of “false”, but as “academic” or “practical”, “outworn” or “contemporary”, “conventional” or “ruthless”. Jargon, not argument, is your best ally in keeping him from the Church. Don’t waste time trying to make him think that materialism is true! Make him think it is strong, or stark, or courageous - that it is the philosophy of the future. That’s the sort of thing he cares about. --**Screwtape Letters, Chapter 1 **

At any rate, although I don’t want to argue that religious believers are not more likely to intellectually accept a binding moral code, suffice it to say that it is unfair to say that an atheist cannot have a binding moral code that doesn’t change with fashion or that I do not know people with a religious practice who find excuses to get around their religion’s code or rationalize that it is subject to change. Fashion and relativism in moral thinking is a trick that the evil one will try to use on anyone, religious or not, deist or not, and even on those who adhere to Christianity. Those who seek the truth, though, even if not given the grace of recognizing the full truth, are capable of understanding binding morality on a natural plane, as the letter to the Romans points out.

IOW, if these people were to say that they can’t believe in a moral code because they don’t believe in God, I’m not buying it. We are not talking about a subtle moral distinction, here. We’re talking about a violation of marriage that even people with a very natural understanding of morality might easily find utterly appalling.

 

[lutheran_farmer]

Anyone else recall the scene from Raising Arizona? That didn’t go well.

Well, I suppose they are pretty dedicated to their lifestyle. You and your husband did give them a clear “No”, didn’t you?

When my husband and I first got married, we were on active duty in the military. A married officer I had worked for at a previous command (who I found creepy at the time) invited us to join him at a party. I had heard something about the parties, so I asked around. He was a swinger and the parties were very hedonistic. We stayed away from him after that. In the military, adultery and fratenization are punishable by the UCMJ, (besides the damage it could wreak on a marriage). Sooner or later, I’m sure someone spoke up about it. Meanwhile, we steered clear of him.