JUST reasons, and children

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RedSoxWife said:
And I don’t think that saying that children are a blessing, which is basically what every one of those quotes say, implies a judgement on the individual. Our culture does have a twisted view of life and value. That’s why so many children are killed in the womb.
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It was the context it came in.

When someone gives you a reason why they are not having more children (such as my example of the woman who wanted 2 kids so she could continue with her career), and your response to that person is “all children are a blessing…” yes, that insinuates that the person should be having more kids.
 
gardenswithkids said:
I’ve read post #53 and I’d *still *love to see some examples too.
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Are you kidding me?? One person went as far as to boldly state “2-3 kids is never enough,” and you still don’t see any judgements being made against my example of the lady who wanted 2 kids??
 
BingoBoy said:
It was the context it came in.

When someone gives you a reason why they are not having more children (such as my example of the woman who wanted 2 kids so she could continue with her career), and the response is “all children are a blessing…” yes, that insinuates that the person should be having more kids.
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It is you who are mistaken and I take offense at being quoted out of context in your list of quotes. The FACT is: Children are a blessing. Notice there is no number attached to that. YOU are the one making judgement calls on those of us stating the FACT: Children are a blessing.
 
BingoBoy said:
Here you make it sound like not having more children because a woman can’t handle more kids AND keep her career at the same time while still being happy/at peace, isn’t really legitimate:

You make it sound like she’s supposed to be stressed out and have hardships in life by having more kids than she’s comfortable with.
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We’re not called to be comfortable. We’re called to strive for holiness. There are certainly many reasons to avoid. But because we’re “not comfortable?” Not comfortable certainly doesn’t sound “serious.”

And again, where do see Jesus promising us happiness in this life? We’re called to strive for sainthood. Have you ever heard a tale of sainthood that involved ease or comfort?

What’s more important: this life or the next? Happiness and comfort here or eternity?
 
RedSoxWife said:
We’re not called to be comfortable. We’re called to strive for holiness. There are certainly many reasons to avoid. But because we’re “not comfortable?” Not comfortable certainly doesn’t sound “serious.”

And again, where do see Jesus promising us happiness in this life? We’re called to strive for sainthood. Have you ever heard a tale of sainthood that involved ease or comfort?

What’s more important: this life or the next? Happiness and comfort here or eternity?
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Ok… so now are you willing to admit to what I was saying about the mentality around here?
 
BingoBoy said:
Ok… so now are you willing to admit to what I was saying about the mentality around here?
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What’s the “mentality” around here. That children are a blessing? That we’re called to strive for holiness? That we should embrace our vocations and work tirelessly to submit our will for our lives to God’s will? That our goal should be first and foremost heaven?

If that’s the “mentality” that you’re speaking of with distaste than yes, I’ll admit it.

If you mean that judging other motivations for avoiding more children, then no, I haven’t really seen that on this particular thread.

Do you believe that avoiding children should be the default? Do you believe that children, sent from our loving heavenly Father are ever less than a blessing?
 
BingoBoy said:
One of your quotes was up there. You yourself stated that you object to the reasoning used in my example!
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Cross post. When I went to post my comment #53 was the last post above. By the time I wrote a few paragraphs you had quoted me. I’m not sure how telling someone to embrace their vocation, which we are all called to do can be seen as “judging” though.

Do you deny we have a vocation from God? Do you deny that this is the thing that we are called to? That our vocation is the path we are to take towards holiness?

That’s why our vocations are more important than anything else and why, if something is harming it we must seriously evaluate our options (again, not saying a woman can’t have a career). Our journey towards holiness must come before all else. Anything that comes between that call to serve and us, must be carefully examined.

I’m sure you’re going to think that sounds judgmental though, right?
 
RedSoxWife said:
What’s the “mentality” around here. That children are a blessing? That we’re called to strive for holiness? That we should embrace our vocations and work tirelessly to submit our will for our lives to God’s will? That our goal should be first and foremost heaven?

If that’s the “mentality” that you’re speaking of with distaste than yes, I’ll admit it.

If you mean that judging other motivations for avoiding more children, then no, I haven’t really seen that on this particular thread.

Do you believe that avoiding children should be the default? Do you believe that children, sent from our loving heavenly Father are ever less than a blessing?
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The mentality that a women needs to have a bunch of kids… and that not having more than 2-3 kids so that she can balance her time with other talents, isn’t legitimate reason.

The response you and a couple others have given to this is something along the lines of “well I know such and such person who is a brain surgeon full time and has 10 kids and SHE can handle it.”

The point is not all of us are the same, and not all of us can handle it.
 
Did the lady in your example only want to kids because that’s all SHE wanted, or is it because that’s all God wanted her to have, through either secondary infertility or monthly prayer and discernment with her husband?
 
BingoBoy said:
Ok… so now are you willing to admit to what I was saying about the mentality around here?
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Hmmm…but discomfort is not necessarily the same thing as hardship. We are called to be selfless and that is difficult. If a couple really want children but live in an area where famine is occurring, it might be wisest for that couple to wait until that desire can be fulfilled even though they would want a child right away if that impediment wasn’t in the way. It’s not necessarily “do what you have to to have more kids.” It’s “prayerfully discern if you are called to possibly conceive again at this time.” If you aren’t, you abstain. If you are, then love your spouse in the union God created for that purpose.

Children are a natural result of the love between husband and wife. God created us out of His love, and our love, in a miniature version of that, creates new life for us to love. We love our “creations” the way God loves us. Sometimes that love brings challenges (I hear the toddler and teen years are quite difficult), but ultimately they bring joy and more to love.

It’s all in how you rise up to the challenges God gives you. If you live in fear of those challenges, you will probably not grow very much.
 
How about we try to define "uncomfortable?

A woman who thinks about having another kid, and finds it “uncomfortable” think about a little less sleep and dirty diapers, perhaps, is being selfish.

But what of a woman who thinks about having another kid and the thought of the rekindled stress nearly gives her a complete nervous breakdown because she doesn’t have the emotional resources to stretch that far?

People here say “not wanting more” is not a legitimate reason to avoid. But words can mean diffferent things to different people/. I think a woman who 'doesn’t want more" children because she really and honestly can’t handle more has a perfectly good reason to avoid. I think it would be DISGUSTING to pressure a woman like that to have more kids just because they’re a “blessing.” Yes, babies are a blessing, but they’re a blessing that comes with great weight and responsibility, and I’m sorry, but not everyone has the mental stamina to take on as much responsibility as others.
 
BingoBoy said:
The mentality that a women needs to have a bunch of kids… and that not having more than 2-3 kids so that she can balance her time with other talents, isn’t legitimate reason.

The response you and a couple others have given to this is something along the lines of “well I know such and such person who is a brain surgeon full time and has 10 kids and SHE can handle it.”

The point is not all of us are the same, and not all of us can handle it.
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But we must prayerfully discern what we can handle, month by month. I don’t think anyone else has said anything differently. Do you deny that? Do you think we can make the decision once and go with it forever?

And you seem to claim the opposite on this thread: a woman can’t be expected to have a career and have a large family. So we can’t give examples showing that it’s possible, but you can make blanket statements denying it?

A woman doesn’t need to have a bunch of kids. But a husband and wife need to be open to God’s will in their life and to prayerfully discern the direction he is asking them to take. The Church has told us we’re called to be generous. The level in which we are able to be generous does vary greatly. But we’re each called to discern and at the very least we’re called to be open.

Shutting God out of a marriage destroys it. That’s exactly what happens when you completely deny the possibility of his life-giving power. And sometimes even when we believe we’ve discerned a reason we believe is serious God steps in and sends us a blessing. And then it’s up to us to embrace that blessing and continue to fulfill our duties.
 
Alistair_DB said:
How about we try to define "uncomfortable?

A woman who thinks about having another kid, and finds it “uncomfortable” think about a little less sleep and dirty diapers, perhaps, is being selfish.

But what of a woman who thinks about having another kid and the thought of the rekindled stress nearly gives her a complete nervous breakdown because she doesn’t have the emotional resources to stretch that far?

People here say “not wanting more” is not a legitimate reason to avoid. But words can mean diffferent things to different people/. I think a woman who 'doesn’t want more" children because she really and honestly can’t handle more has a perfectly good reason to avoid. I think it would be DISGUSTING to pressure a woman like that to have more kids just because they’re a “blessing.” Yes, babies are a blessing, but they’re a blessing that comes with great weight and responsibility, and I’m sorry, but not everyone has the mental stamina to take on as much responsibility as others.
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I don’t think anybody has said on this thread that such a woman shouldn’t avoid.

But if she determines, in prayer and with her husband’s support, that avoidance is what’s necessary now, her situation might change in the future and she may discern a call to conceive again. I think what people on this thread are saying is that it’s basically impossible to ever know a set number because circumstances change. Couples should continue to discern whether or not they are called to have more children until menopause - not just make a blanket statement that they’re “done” after whatever “magic number” (for one thing, it implies either abstinence for a long time, or willingness to consider artificial methods, which strip marital love of an essential meaning.)
 
Wonder how many blessings I personally blocked from my life because I did not trust God completely and was afraid of having more kids 😦
 
Castello said:
Wonder how many blessings I personally blocked from my life because I did not trust God completely and was afraid of having more kids 😦
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WOW, ****ing propoganda much? BAAWW GO HAVE THIRTY KIDS SO YOU DON"T END UP LIKE ME!
 
Alistair_DB said:
WOW, ****ing propoganda much? BAAWW GO HAVE THIRTY KIDS SO YOU DON"T END UP LIKE ME!
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You need to stop. 15 minutes ago would have been nice, but I guess we’ll all have to settle for now. What you said is unkind.
 
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