Just when you think you've seen it all

[michaeldaniels]

Apathy is the glove in to which evil slips its ugly hand—Why are we so quick to allow this type of behavior. The kids today aren’t destroying themselves…we are doing it for them by enabling them and allowing them to act like this…we need to put our foots down and not allow this type of behavior and it starts in the home. Everybody on here is like…“At least she helped the lady”…You know what, she could just have as easily helped her while wearing a modest dress and a mantilla. The way I was raised and they way I will be raising my kids, is that I will dictate to them how they will dress and act while living under my roof…not the other way around. Like the saying goes, “you can not let the prisoners run the prison”. My father always told me that if I EVER came home with long hair and/or an ear ring, I would have to wear a dress around…luckily for me I never desired to. I never wanted to look like a feminine hippy…and my kids will not either. That goes for attire, the parents of that girl should have forbidden her from owning that type of clothing, much less allow her to wear it to Mass

Why not focus on the positive? This teenager helped an elderly woman to mass and sat in the front with her.

Optimism versus pessimism.

A shape is JUST a shape. No more. No less.

(Spoken as the mother of a teen boy who for many years wore his hair long and like black leather and sunglasses. People who did not know him assumed he was into drugs and drinking. Nothing was farther from the truth.)

Don’t judge.

 

[Onegin]

A shape is JUST a shape. No more. No less.

Don’t judge.

You’re right. A shape is just a shape. So, assuming that this particular helpful girl showed up to Mass wearing a shirt with a giant swastika on it, we’d still be able to justify that, right?

It’s borderline depressing the way we’re so quick to justify the most extreme behavior nowadays. Her individual intent doesn’t matter, wearing a shirt like that is bringing the profane into a sacred place. It should not be done.

 

[adstrinity]

You’re right. A shape is just a shape. So, assuming that this particular helpful girl showed up to Mass wearing a shirt with a giant swastika on it, we’d still be able to justify that, right?

It’s borderline depressing the way we’re so quick to justify the most extreme behavior nowadays. Her individual intent doesn’t matter, wearing a shirt like that is bringing the profane into a sacred place. It should not be done.

Well, honestly, it would depend which way the swastika was facing/turning. Seriously, yes. The swastika is not incompatible with Christianity, not at all!

 

[michaeldaniels]

Now a days you can’t say or do anything without upsetting someone…call a protestant a heretic and you are a rigid, bigoted, narrow minded jerk, without compassion…meanwhile back in the day, one of our greatest Saints, St. Thomas More was not afraid to throw the term around. When someone is wrong, I have no problems letting them know…I do not judge them, but love of our fellow man is one of the works of Mercy that we should all do…modern times would have you believe you are compassionate by being indifferent…that is bull—well you know what it is. True compassion is loving your neighbor enough to tell them when they are wrong and to try and help them on their journey…but this is not done from a position of condemnation…it is done with love.

You’re right. A shape is just a shape. So, assuming that this particular helpful girl showed up to Mass wearing a shirt with a giant swastika on it, we’d still be able to justify that, right?

It’s borderline depressing the way we’re so quick to justify the most extreme behavior nowadays. Her individual intent doesn’t matter, wearing a shirt like that is bringing the profane into a sacred place. It should not be done.

 

[pnewton]

Let us look at Church teaching:

CCC #2478

To avoid rash judgment, everyone should be careful to interpret insofar as possible his neighbor’s thoughts, words, and deeds in a favorable way:

Every good Christian ought to be more ready to give a favorable interpretation to another’s statement than to condemn it. But if he cannot do so, let him ask how the other understands it. And if the latter understands it badly, let the former correct him with love.

I think in light of this it would be best not to assume, lest one parade their own deficincies and need for spiritual growth. Even if this symbol represents some heavy metal rock band, and even though it is not appropriate for Mass, it may well be that this girl is new to the faith or even oblivious to the things of God. In which case, it may be better to rejoice that God may be speaking to her heart than condemn her for not yet having arrived, like we have.

 

[Onegin]

Let us look at Church teaching:

CCC #2478
I think in light of this it would be best not to assume, lest one parade their own deficincies and need for spiritual growth. Even if this symbol represents some heavy metal rock band, and even though it is not appropriate for Mass, it may well be that this girl is new to the faith or even oblivious to the things of God. In which case, it may be better to rejoice that God may be speaking to her heart than condemn her for not yet having arrived, like we have.

I agree that we shouldn’t judge her subjective intent. But not judging the person does not mean that we must allow profane symbols into a Catholic Church.

This is the situation where a parishoner would be right bring this to the attention of the Priest whose job it would be to decide, in his discretion, whether or not to address the girl and/or her parents about it.

 

[iamrefreshed]

sigh

Maybe you could read the rest of the thread before making assumptions about me and my goal.

sigh

I did and you are.

“Although I liked the brick design of Good Shepherd Catholic Church, I was a bit disappointed with the lack of Catholic-specific items.”

" Good Shepherd Catholic Church is a pretty progressive parish. I try not to use labels, but sometimes it’s the best way to describe something. When I say a parish is progressive, I am referring to its willingness to change things around a little bit. In the case of Good Shepherd Catholic Church, the celebrant and parish changed some aspects of the liturgy and the Order of the Mass. I will not list them here as I don’t want to seem like I’m critiquing anyone, but I should mention that some of the changes were pretty obvious."

“I should also note that I was “encouraged” to hold hands during the Lord’s Prayer. I normally like to pray the Lord’s Prayer with my eyes closed and my hands clasped in front of me. However, the person next to me was pretty “insistent” that I hold his hand, and that’s when I realized the whole congregation was doing it (even the celebrant, altar servers, and extraordinary ministers of Holy Communion were holding hands). I am only really comfortable with holding hands at one specific parish, and that’s because I know most of the people sitting around me. I mention the hand holding because I realize some of you may not be comfortable with it and chances are you will be “encouraged” to do it at Good Shepherd.”

I guess you and I define ‘critique’ differently.

 

[crazzeto]

Let us look at Church teaching:

CCC #2478
I think in light of this it would be best not to assume, lest one parade their own deficincies and need for spiritual growth. Even if this symbol represents some heavy metal rock band, and even though it is not appropriate for Mass, it may well be that this girl is new to the faith or even oblivious to the things of God. In which case, it may be better to rejoice that God may be speaking to her heart than condemn her for not yet having arrived, like we have.

Lets see what the CCC teaches about the Mass it’s self:

1621 In the Latin Rite the celebration of marriage between two Catholic faithful normally takes place during Holy Mass, because of the connection of all the sacraments with the Paschal mystery of Christ. In the Eucharist the memorial of the New Covenant is realized, the New Covenant in which Christ has united himself for ever to the Church, his beloved bride for whom he gave himself up. It is therefore fitting that the spouses should seal their consent to give themselves to each other through the offering of their own lives by uniting it to the offering of Christ for his Church made present in the Eucharistic sacrifice, and by receiving the Eucharist so that, communicating in the same Body and the same Blood of Christ, they may form but “one body” in Christ.

1378 Worship of the Eucharist. In the liturgy of the Mass we express our faith in the real presence of Christ under the species of bread and wine by, among other ways, genuflecting or bowing deeply as a sign of adoration of the Lord. “The Catholic Church has always offered and still offers to the sacrament of the Eucharist the cult of adoration, not only during Mass, but also outside of it, reserving the consecrated hosts with the utmost care, exposing them to the solemn veneration of the faithful, and carrying them in procession.”

2042 The first precept (“You shall attend Mass on Sundays and holy days of obligation and rest from servile labor”) requires the faithful to sanctify the day commemorating the Resurrection of the Lord as well as the principal liturgical feasts honoring the Mysteries of the Lord, the Blessed Virgin Mary, and the saints; in the first place, by participating in the Eucharistic celebration, in which the Christian community is gathered, and by resting from those works and activities which could impede such a sanctification of these days.
The second precept (“You shall confess your sins at least once a year”) ensures preparation for the Eucharist by the reception of the sacrament of reconciliation, which continues Baptism’s work of conversion and forgiveness.

The third precept (“You shall receive the sacrament of the Eucharist at least during the Easter season”) guarantees as a minimum the reception of the Lord’s Body and Blood in connection with the Paschal feasts, the origin and center of the Christian liturgy.

With out judging the individual, does this really sound like the kind of setting where “full on casual” is appropriate? Should peole show up in their swim suits as well? None of us can judge that young girl, but we can all judge her actions of showing up to Mass inapproriatly dressed as being a bad choice.

 

[damooster]

I guess you and I define ‘critique’ differently.

Point taken. When I write this stuff, my goal is not to critique, but to just give my opinion about what I saw and what I experienced. Reading what you quoted, it does sound like I’m critiquing, so I was wrong and you were right.

I’ve decided to go with a different format anyways so I share less opinion and have just more information. Apparently it’s a bad thing to have an opinion on the internet (not from what you have pointed out, but from what others have said)!

 

[pnewton]

With out judging the individual, does this really sound like the kind of setting where “full on casual” is appropriate? Should peole show up in their swim suits as well? None of us can judge that young girl, but we can all judge her actions of showing up to Mass inapproriatly dressed as being a bad choice.

Yes. It is good to understand that some actions are totally inappropriate at Mass, as long as we focus only on the action and not the person. Many at Mass are not as fluent in liturgy and Church teaching/discipline as we are. Unfortunately, as this thread shows, all too often we are reading to label and throw names at the individual, not the action. Sometimes we are on target with those judgements. At other times, we are not. In either case, we are seldom right.