"Justice for Immigrants" and USCCB

[niceatheist]

Argumentum ad absurdum

 

[AlNg]

Those drugs will get through one way or the other.

There is a chance that the flow would be lessened somewhat. I don’t see how building a wall would lead to an increase in drugs coming in?
Anyway, I still think it is a prudential decision. A person can find arguments either for or against the wall.

 

[Loud-living-dogma]

Argumentum ad absurdum

Not really. You’re the one saying we’re caging desperate people who can’t get access to the resources they need.

 

[Ender]

…all I see is the same old Know Nothing xenophobia.

Bingo. This demonstrates exactly what I referred to. Those who cry that immigration is a moral issue use it as nothing more than an excuse to judge and condemn those who disagree with them.

The prohibition against judging others is ignored. The obligation of charity is ignored. That this is done by those who proclaim to be on the moral side of the issue is an irony surely lost on them.

2477 ….He becomes guilty:
- of rash judgment who, even tacitly, assumes as true, without sufficient foundation, the moral fault of a neighbor;
2478 To avoid rash judgment, everyone should be careful to interpret insofar as possible his neighbor’s thoughts, words, and deeds in a favorable way:

 

[Theo520]

This is not true, at all. Thousands of people per day cross our southern border illegally, many times more than come in from Canada illegally.

I was surprised by the below article. The illegals are still from south of the border but they fly to Canada and than walk over. Probably cheaper than paying a coyote to smuggle them over the southern border.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/montreal/mexicans-crossing-us-canada-border-immigration-1.4760153

 

[graciew]

May get a ticket for say 500 dollars .
Only that only Chile and Mexico have a visa waiver ( Latin American countries I mean ) , Not El Salvador, Honduras , Guatemala as the article mentiones as passing.
You need an eTA ( without the Visa)you can do online for 7 Canadian dollars.
Need a passport though.
What surprises you? The amount of $ or the choice of path? Or both?
Or that Mexico was exempt from Visa?
Just curious, you do sound surprised. And that surprised me!
I had to find out cause I believe Vancouver was a stop on our way East in the coming weeks but since I needed a Visa, I picked LAX as a stop for both of us.More like at home , lazy bird… could have visited Vancouver…It would have added cost too and it was an unexpected invitation .
I know there is an industry with coyotes already. What I read) take it with more than a grain of salt) was about 700 dollars México to US. There must be all sorts of arrangements. Some I read in Spanish as was family loans to be returned after getting a job. As I also read that if prevented from crossing, people returned with a debt on top of having nothing left in their own place after having sold everything. That was an account from either Honduras or El Salvador.
( Excuse my editing, but our dogs demanded some attention in the kitchen… too quiet…)

 

[JaredOConnor]

You know, Christians are called to be charitable as much as we can. However, I believe in strong border security. I’m just going to lay this out here, Christians are charitable but not pacifists. We need to stand up for ourselves and the good of the church and community. In my opinion, we should not take in so many illegal immigrants when we have so many of our own citizens homeless and starving (including children).

And on a side note. I am not against immigration, that would be odd for me considering my family from both sides immigrated here LEGALLY (my mom’s side during the Vietnam war and my dad’s side during the potato famine in Ireland). I am vehemently opposed to illegal immigration.

 

[Theo520]

Just curious, you do sound surprised. And that surprised me!

This thread was the first time I heard Latino illegals from Canada were higher than Southern crossers. So I searched and shared a supporting article.

 

[Loud-living-dogma]

Although the number of arrrets are tiny, compared to the southern border: Amid focus on immigration from south, illegal crossings from Canada surge | US immigration | The Guardian

 

[Sarcelle]

Those moaning about migrants not “doing it the legal way” might want to ponder why the ‘legal way’ now too often involves a mazelike, incomprehensible bureaucracy like something out of Catch-22 or Yes Minister. And I say that having studied immigration law.

The “legal” way is a nightmare to navigate as you just mentioned. But what are you proposing? To do away with the law altogether or encourage people to break it?

Why not reform the law instead ?

 

[Loud-living-dogma]

I’m just going to leave this here…
Rush responding to a question from a young lady in Catholic school:

Rush’s Epic Answer to a 13-Year-Old: Why Becoming an American Shouldn’t Be Easy

RUSH: We are a nation with a culture and a society worth preserving as hard as it takes, as long as it takes, as much as it takes to preserve it.

www.rushlimbaugh.com

 

[Theo520]

The “legal” way is a nightmare to navigate as you just mentioned. But what are you proposing? To do away with the law altogether or encourage people to break it?

Part of the reason it is hard is because demand far outstrips supply. Even if the process was a one page questionaire, people would still have to wait years for an opening.

The US is like the favorite pro sports team, where demand for season tickets has a multi-year wait list. That isn’t gonna change with a different application process. We can’t seat everyone who wants to come to the game.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

The US is like the favorite pro sports team, where demand for season tickets has a multi-year wait list. That isn’t gonna change with a different application process. We can’t seat everyone who wants to come to the game.

The analogy is good, except that the consequences of not getting season tickets is not nearly so severe.

 

[Loud-living-dogma]

Maybe they need to improve their own team, then there will be more demand for season tickets there too.

 

[Theo520]

The analogy is good, except that the consequences of not getting season tickets is not nearly so severe.

It isn’t our responsibility to give the economic opportunity of the American Dream to everyone who wants it, just our citizens.

 

[LeafByNiggle]

And it was not the responsibility of the Good Samaritan to help the man beaten by robbers.

 

[Loud-living-dogma]

Wait – the good Samaritan didn’t just think the government should take care of everyone?

 

[LeafByNiggle]

Nope. He was moved by compassion.

 

[Ender]

And it was not the responsibility of the Good Samaritan to help the man beaten by robbers.

This implies two things, neither of which is true. First, that we have a responsibility to care for one man means we have a responsibility to care for all, and second, that we have the capacity to care for one means we have the capacity to care for all.

What is objectionable about your observation is that it takes no account of reality; it simply implies that good people support open borders, while evil people oppose them. You might object that you’ve said nothing about open borders, but either the borders are closed at some point or they are open, and if you allow closing them at all then this “You’re not a Good Samaritan” objection applies.

Aquinas expressed the only reasonable position, something your observation ignores.

Absolutely speaking it is impossible to do good to every single one.

 

[AdamP88]

By the way, insisting that illegal immigrants follow the same law that legal immigrants follow to immigrate over here is not oppression.

I agree. Also…is it not kind of a kick in the face to people who legally immigrated to just grant amnesty to those who do it through illegal channels?