Justification by Faith vs The Sacrament of Confession

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You have nothing else to offer…and neither does anyone else.

I go with God’s Words…every time.
Actually, what you go with is your own interpretation of scripture.

So do the Baptists who do not baptize infants and do not think baptism is regenerative.

So do the Lutherans who do baptize infants and think baptism is regenerative.

So do the Presbyterians who do baptize infants but do not think it is regenerative.

Which of these groups which claim to adhere to “sola scriptura” is correct, and how do you know for sure?
 
So Linkowski, since your faith is your works that means you are working our way into heaven. Big conundrum since:

Heb 11:1: Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen.

Accordingly you are trying to buy your way into heaven by virtue of your faith in works and not in Christ and the hope of things not seen.

What a dilemma.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
I am confused on this point. If Jesus wanted us to be saved by having a personal relationship with Him, why did he leave these instructions?

Matt 28:19-20
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you…"

Why did he say that people should be baptized, made disciples, and observers (doers) instead of just focusing on salvation by grace through faith?
 
Regardless, a person can’t declare THEMSELVES married or baptised, always requires the agency of another to do so, so can they not declare themselves forgiven of grave sin!
Understood, but in his “make up your doctrine as you go along to suit your own fancies” faith community, one doesn’t need a priest to do what they call baptism or marriage.
 
I do not have the time to educate you on history.

Please get a good book on the history of the early church.
Why are you here?

1 John 5:16-17
6 If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that. 17 All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.
John is not speaking of sin that kills spiritually.
What IS he speaking about? what IS a “mortal sin”?
 
I worry of no such thing.

LOL.
What ARE you worried about, Atemi? Why are you here?
It’s good to know we all recognize then that the priest is then moot.
Oh, no, Atemi. We do not agree that the priest is moot. We believe that Christ is present through the Priest, and that the absolution of sins is given to us by Christ, through the priest.
 
I am not here to school anyone where they are deficient.
Then why ARE you here, Atemi? It certainly seems that, from reading your posts, you are here on a mission to convince Catholics of their error!
 
You have nothing else to offer…and neither does anyone else.

I go with God’s Words…every time.
Okay. Then referring to your Bible, please tell us:

Where does the Bible tell you that there are three co-substantial persons in the one triune God?

Where does the Bible tell you that Jesus proceeds from the Father but that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son?

Where does the Bible tell you that Jesus is fully God and fully man with two natures and two wills?

Where does the Bible tell you that public revelation ended with the death of the last apostle?

Where does the Bible tell you which letters and books written by early Christians are to be considered “scripture”?

Where does the Bible tell you that it is the only infallible rule of faith for the believer (sola scriptura)? NOWHERE!

Where does the Bible tell you that you are saved by faith alone (sola fide)? NOWHERE!

Where does the Bible tell you to recite the sinner’s prayer and provide the precise words that you must say to do it correctly?

Where does the Bible tell you that once you are saved, you cannot lose your salvation?

Where does the Bible tell you not to baptize infants?

Where does the Bible tell you to baptize by sprinkling, pouring or immersion?

Where does the Bible tell you that the bread and wine used at the Last Supper were purely symbolic references to his “teaching” which we must “chew on” and “mull over” as “food for thought” in our minds?

Where does the Bible tell you to confess your sins to God alone?
Where does the Bible tell you not to confess to a man?

Where does the Bible tell you that you should not respect, honor, and follow the example given by those Christians who have led holy lives before you?

Where does the Bible tell you that the faithful who have died in Christ and entered heaven cannot hear you and that you are prohibited from talking to them?

Where does the Bible tell you that there is not a place of purgation of sins that one must go through before entering heaven?

And a few specifically for fundamentalists:

Where does the Bible tell you that dancing and drinking alcohol is prohibited?

Where does the Bible tell you to attend Wednesday night services?

Where does the Bible tell you to set up little “manger scenes” in places of honor at Christmas time with a “graven image” of the Baby Jesus surrounded by cows, sheep, wise men and angels?

Where does the Bible tell you that artificial birth control is acceptable to God?

Where does the Bible tell you that divorce is acceptable to God?
 
Okay. Then referring to your Bible, please tell us:

Where does the Bible tell you that there are three co-substantial persons in the one triune God?

Where does the Bible tell you that Jesus proceeds from the Father but that the Holy Spirit proceeds from the Father and the Son?

Where does the Bible tell you that Jesus is fully God and fully man with two natures and two wills?

Where does the Bible tell you that public revelation ended with the death of the last apostle?

Where does the Bible tell you which letters and books written by early Christians are to be considered “scripture”?

Where does the Bible tell you that it is the only infallible rule of faith for the believer (sola scriptura)? NOWHERE!

Where does the Bible tell you that you are saved by faith alone (sola fide)? NOWHERE!

Where does the Bible tell you to recite the sinner’s prayer and provide the precise words that you must say to do it correctly?

Where does the Bible tell you that once you are saved, you cannot lose your salvation?

Where does the Bible tell you not to baptize infants?

Where does the Bible tell you to baptize by sprinkling, pouring or immersion?

Where does the Bible tell you that the bread and wine used at the Last Supper were purely symbolic references to his “teaching” which we must “chew on” and “mull over” as “food for thought” in our minds?

Where does the Bible tell you to confess your sins to God alone?
Where does the Bible tell you not to confess to a man?

Where does the Bible tell you that you should not respect, honor, and follow the example given by those Christians who have led holy lives before you?

Where does the Bible tell you that the faithful who have died in Christ and entered heaven cannot hear you and that you are prohibited from talking to them?

Where does the Bible tell you that there is not a place of purgation of sins that one must go through before entering heaven?

And a few specifically for fundamentalists:

Where does the Bible tell you that dancing and drinking alcohol is prohibited?

Where does the Bible tell you to attend Wednesday night services?

Where does the Bible tell you to set up little “manger scenes” in places of honor at Christmas time with a “graven image” of the Baby Jesus surrounded by cows, sheep, wise men and angels?

Where does the Bible tell you that artificial birth control is acceptable to God?

Where does the Bible tell you that divorce is acceptable to God?
You forgot to add, where does the Bible say that we should worship on Sunday?
 
Please just quote for us some other God-breathed Words of His that are outside of Sacred Scripture and let us take a look.
Catholics acknowledge that the Bible is materially sufficient and that the faith has been delivered once for all to the saints. Since nothing in our faith adds to this deposit, we cannot comply with your request for additional “God-breathed” words of scripture.

Catholics are members of a “God-breathed” church (cf. John 20:21) charged with teaching the gospel and enabled by the Holy Spirit to do so infallibly. Therefore, we do not add to the word of God, but we do have the correct interpretation which leads us to some very different conclusions from those who follow more of a “do-it-yourself” approach.

However, this thread is not about sola scriptura but about sola fide, and it is the Catholic position that the burden of proof rests upon those who insist that the doctrine of justification be taught using language that the Scripture itself does not use.

We await a convincing argument.
 
I am puzzled as to why you are here. Your historical reality remains only a matter of opinion until you offer credible sources and references.

The onus is on you to provide them.
Sorry Eileen, in all the posts I read from Atemi not one historical reference or event did he cite to back his assertions. He only makes assertions.
sigh
 
I am confused on this point. If Jesus wanted us to be saved by having a personal relationship with Him, why did he leave these instructions?

Matt 28:19-20
19 Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you…"

Why did he say that people should be baptized, made disciples, and observers (doers) instead of just focusing on salvation by grace through faith?
It’s rhetorical given Linkowskis other pronouncements against buying ones way into heaven through works. He is vehemently against this. Ergo, by him declaring his works to be his faith he is working his way into heaven and it isn’t faith alone.

For what it’s worth, I agree with you. Linkowski just can’t bring himself to say it. He must stick with the faith alone doctrine, and try to twist scripture enough to make it sound feasible. Which is basically just blowing smoke up someones tail pipe.

Peace and God Bless
Nicene
 
I do not have the time to educate you on history.

Please get a good book on the history of the early church.
That’s another way of saying:
“I don’t have historical reference because it’s just my opinion.”

Other wise please prove me wrong.
 
The Epistle of James 5:14-16 says

14 Is anyone among you sick? Then he must call for the elders of the church and they are to pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord;
15 and the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up, and if he has committed sins, they will be forgiven him.
16 Therefore, confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much.

It seems that confession to a person is necessary and the Catholic arrangement of privately confessing to a priest who is forbidden to reveal your confession clearly satisfies this requirement. For the Protestant, it does beg the question though of whether the person receiving the confession and therefore absolving the sin must be a priest.
 
Then why ARE you here, Atemi? It certainly seems that, from reading your posts, you are here on a mission to convince Catholics of their error!
You keep asking me what I am doing here and it reminds me of the attitiude the bartender in Star Wars displayed against droids. LOL.

I am getting the distinct impression that those of differing beliefs are not welcome here on this (supposedly) “Apologetics” forum.

Either that or they are welcome, it’s just that they cannot speak of anything that disagrees with the teaching of the your church.

I am sorry, but is this forum for Catholics only?

I have all my papers, have completed all my Sacraments, and am still counted among the “one billion” Catholics, so does that help?

If a differing belief is so threatening to you, guanaphore, I apologize. Is this phobia your own creation or did you learn it from the Church? Most of the Catholics I am around everyday are more than understanding that there are others out there that have differing views and are free to talk about them.

 
I am getting the distinct impression that those of differing beliefs are not welcome here on this (supposedly) “Apologetics” forum.

Either that or they are welcome, it’s just that they cannot speak of anything that disagrees with the teaching of the your church.

I am sorry, but is this forum for Catholics only?

I did not read anybody saying that nobody is allowed to disagree in this forum. In fact around 80% of the posts here are posted because we disagree on something, even on things most Catholics should normally agree on. Is the opposite true in your congregation?

Many posters though, are wondering what historical arguments you are basing your opinions on. You failing to provide this, many are wondering why.

Why?
 
You keep asking me what I am doing here and it reminds me of the attitiude the bartender in Star Wars displayed against droids. LOL.

I am getting the distinct impression that those of differing beliefs are not welcome here on this (supposedly) “Apologetics” forum.
One of my favorites! No, it is not the differing beliefs that are the problem.
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Atemi:
Either that or they are welcome, it’s just that they cannot speak of anything that disagrees with the teaching of the your church.
disagreement is not a problem either. Lack of charity is a problem, hostility is a problem, and a mission to convert Catholics is a problem. You might wish to read the rules of the forum with regard to those.
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Atemi:
I am sorry, but is this forum for Catholics only?

I have all my papers, have completed all my Sacraments, and am still counted among the “one billion” Catholics, so does that help?
I think, once you have rejected the teachings of the Church, it will not help to pretend you are Catholic.
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Atemi:
If a differing belief is so threatening to you, guanaphore, I apologize. Is this phobia your own creation or did you learn it from the Church? Most of the Catholics I am around everyday are more than understanding that there are others out there that have differing views and are free to talk about them…
It is curious to me that you interpret my question about your motives as me feeling threatened. Your beliefs are not threat to me. I have already been where you are now. If I were not interested in talkinga about differing views, I would not be here. What I asked (and you have yet to answer) is why are YOU here!? You have brought your LOL, eyerolling and sarcastic remarks here for a reason, and I wonder what that is. Perhaps you are not sure either, and that is ok too!:signofcross:
 
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