Justification: Three Questions for Protestants

[Fidelis]

What part of my answer is flawed theology?

Your answer didn’t reflect any theology at all – just one, isolated cherry-picked verse.

 

[sandusky]

Fidelis:

Quoted in isolation from everything else Jesus sais about how we are saved, ANY single verse would be a “strong” verse.

Well, John says that the Father sent the Son so that the believing ones would not perish, but have eternal life—that’s two verses that say the believing gets heaven.

Fidelis:

That one, safe isolated verse, you meant to say.

What are you talking about—one safe, isolated verse? Do you disagree with it?

 

[mr_foster]

This question is a little rediculous. You must take everything that the apostles said and what Jesus said into account.
it boils down to

hearing the Gospel
believing the Gospel
Repenting of your sins
confessing Jesus as the son of God
and Being Baptised into his church

I’m not a protestant, I’m a Christian.I don’t see and protestants in the bible. No Catholics either by the way

 

[sandusky]

Your answer didn’t reflect any theology at all – just one, isolated cherry-picked verse.

Do you disagree with the verse?

 

[sandusky]

Let’s try a little experiment: Is there a Protestant on this thread that can give me five verses of what **St. Paul **says about how we are saved?

Why? So you can continue to say they’re cherry-picking verses?

 

[myfavoritmartin]

As was stated earlier the Scriptures don’t contradict!

**
JESUS**
Jhn 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.
Jhn 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Jhn 3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
Jhn 3:36 He that believeth on the Son hath everlasting life: and he that believeth not the Son shall not see life; but the wrath of God abideth on him.
Jhn 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
Jhn 6:35 And Jesus said unto them, I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall never hunger; and he that believeth on me shall never thirst.
Jhn 6:40 And this is the will of him that sent me, that every one which seeth the Son, and believeth on him, may have everlasting life: and I will raise him up at the last day.
Jhn 6:47 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.
Jhn 7:38 He that believeth on me, as the scripture hath said, out of his belly shall flow rivers of living water.
Jhn 11:25 Jesus said unto her, I am the resurrection, and the life: he that believeth in me, though he were dead, yet shall he live:
Jhn 11:26 And whosoever liveth and believeth in me shall never die.
Jhn 12:46 I am come a light into the world, that whosoever believeth on me should not abide in darkness.

Luke

Act 10:43 To him give all the prophets witness, that through his name whosoever believeth in him shall receive remission of sins.

Paul
Rom 1:16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.
Rom 4:5 But to him that worketh not, but believeth on him that justifieth the ungodly, his faith is counted for righteousness.
Rom 9:33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.
Rom 10:4 For Christ [is] the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Rom 10:10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
Rom 10:11 For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed.

Peter
1Pe 2:6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.
John
1Jo 5:1 Whosoever believeth that Jesus is the Christ is born of God: and every one that loveth him that begat loveth him also that is begotten of him.

 

[mr_foster]

You must study to shew yourself approved. you can’t read 1 verse and close the bible

 

[Fidelis]

What are you talking about—one safe, isolated verse? Do you disagree with it?

Of course not – if it is taken in the context of everything else Jesus said about how we’re saved.

This was the question, and it still hasn’t been answered.

 

[sandusky]

Of course not – i*f it is taken in the context of everything else *Jesus said about how we’re saved.

This was the question, and it still hasn’t been answered.

How is the verse that I quoted, “out of context?”

 

[mr_foster]

MYFAVORTIEMARTIN left out a lot of scripture about baptism for salvation. But he’s right about 1 thing. The scriptures don’t contradict.

hear
believe
Repent
confess
be baptized

 

[mr_foster]

does that satisfy your question??

 

[Fidelis]

Why? So you can continue to say they’re cherry-picking verses?

Nope, I specifically asked for at least five verses just like I did regarding Jesus – which no one had been able to do up to that point…

 

[Fidelis]

does that satisfy your question??

Not really, because again, it is a case of Protestant selectivism to prop up easy-believism:

How about these to start with?:

Matt. 7:18 - Jesus says that sound trees bear good fruit. But there is no guarantee that a sound tree will stay sound. It could go rotten.

Matt. 7:21 - all those who say “Lord, Lord” on the last day will not be saved. They are judged by their evil deeds.

Matt. 12:30-32 - Jesus says that he who is not with Him is against Him, therefore (the Greek for “therefore” is “dia toutos” which means “through this”) blasphemy against the Spirit will not be forgiven. This means that failing to persevere in Jesus’ grace to the end is the unforgivable sin against the Spirit. We must persevere in faith to the end of our lives.

Matt. 22:14 - Jesus says many are called but few are chosen. This man, who was destined to grace, was at God’s banquet, but was cast out.

Luke 8:13 - Jesus teaches that some people receive the word with joy, but they have no root, believe for a while, and then fall away in temptation. They had the faith but they lost it.

Luke 12:42-46 - we can start out as a faithful and wise steward, then fall away and be assigned to a place with the unfaithful.

Luke 15:11-32 – in the parable of the prodigal son, we learn that we can be genuine sons of the Father, then leave home and die, then return and be described as “alive again.”

John 6:70-71 - Jesus chose or elected twelve, yet one of them, Judas, fell. Not all those predestined to grace persevere to the end.

John 15:1-10 - we can be in Jesus (a branch on the vine), and then if we don’t bear fruit, are cut off, wither up and die. Paul makes this absolutely clear in Rom. 11:20-23.

John 17:12 - we can be given to Jesus by the Father (predestined to grace) and yet not stay with Jesus, like Judas.

John 6:37 - those who continue to come to Jesus He won’t cast out. But it’s a continuous, ongoing action. We can leave Jesus and He will allow this because He respects our freewill.

John 6:39 - Jesus will not lose those the Father gives Him, but we can fall away, like Judas. God allows us not to persevere.

John 6:40 - everyone who sees the Son and believes means the person “continues” to believe. By continuing to believe, the person will persevere and will be raised up. Belief also includes obedience, which is more than an intellectual belief in God.

John 6:44 - Jesus says no one can come to me unless the Father “draws” him. This “drawing” is an ongoing process.

John 10:27-28 - when Jesus says, “no one shall snatch them out of my hands,” He does not mean we can’t leave His hands. We can choose to walk away from Him.

Rev. 2:4-5 – Jesus tells the Ephesians that they abandoned the love they had at first and have fallen. Jesus warns them to repent and do the works they did at first, otherwise He will remove their lampstand (their awaited place in heaven).

Rev. 3:4 - in Sardis, Jesus explained that some people received the white garment and soiled it with sin.

Rev. 3:5 - Jesus says whoever conquers will not be blotted out of the book of life (see Exodus 32:33). This means that we can be blotted out of the book of life. We can have salvation, and then lose salvation by our choice.

Rev. 3:11 - Jesus says to hold fast to what we have, so that no one may seize our crown. Jesus teaches us that we can have the crown of salvation and lose it.

Rev. 13:10; 14:12 - we are called from heaven for the endurance and faith of the saints, keeping the commandments and faith.

Rev. 21:7 - we must conquer in order to share in our heritage and become a true son of Jesus.

Rev. 22:19 - we can have a share in the tree of life in God’s holy city and yet have that share taken away from us.

How come none of these (or similar verses) made your list?

 

[sandusky]

Nope, I specifically asked for at least five verses just like I did regarding Jesus – which no one had been able to do up to that point…

IMO, this thread is another example of your foolishness.

 

[Fidelis]

How is the verse that I quoted, “out of context?”

Because it was quoted ALONE and not in the context of everything Jesus said about salvation. And the isolated verse you picked just happened to support the Protestant notion of how we are saved.

 

[Fidelis]

IMO, this thread is another example of your foolishness.

Sorry you feel that way. But that’s a little off topic, is it not.

 

[sandusky]

Not really, because again, it is a case of Protestant selectivism to prop up easy-believism

What are you talking about, easy believism?

IMO, you sound as though you are playing a tape recording over, and over again in your head.

 

[sandusky]

Sorry you feel that way. But that’s a little off topic, is it not.

I don’t think so.

 

[mr_foster]

Okay 1.
36Therefore let all the house of Israel know assuredly, that God hath made the same Jesus, whom ye have crucified, both Lord and Christ.

37Now when they heard this, they were pricked in their heart, and said unto Peter and to the rest of the apostles, Men and brethren, what shall we do?

38Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost

 

[misslollipops]

Here are some verses to look at:

Mk1:15
Mk16:16

Lk7:50
Lk8:48
Lk13:3,5
Lk18:13-14

I’m still looking so it may take some time.