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jpusateri
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That was unkind. Can you please explain how you know who isn’t reading their bible just from reading the posts?
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maryj
Guest
I think we agree, faith is always required…but just let me add to all of the wonderful quotes…I love this one…
James 2:20 do you want proof,you ignoramous,that faith without works is useless?
21: Was not Abraham our father justified by works when he offered his son Isaac upon the altar?
22: You see that faith was active along with his works, and faith was COMPLETED by the works.
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Teflon93
Guest
You could try it—perhaps there will be a miracle.
Since holy water’s not the blood of Christ, I’m not so sure.
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myfavoritmartin
Guest
CORRECTED, see 1st post this page!
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myfavoritmartin
Guest
James is looking at this from the stand point of evaluation. He is looking at a man who says, “I have faith!” And he is saying, all right if you have true saving faith then I ought to see some evidence of it, right? “By their fruits you shall…” what? "…know them.”
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Teflon93
Guest
Why thank you!
My Bible scholarship must be showing.
I don’t bother with any apologetics sites aside from this one, it being the best.
I do use Bible Gateway to quickly capture text from Protestant translations of Scripture. I do this lest anyone claim I’ve employed a “papist translation” to nefarious apologetical purposes.
You’ve also noticed I do tend to quote entire chapters and bold relevant passages therein. I do this so as to ensure each verse is placed in context.
The Bible’s not a reference book, you know.
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Teflon93
Guest
Yes, this is true. He is specifically challenging the notion, however, that one may believe but not do.
We see that particular notion aplenty around here.
As in, “All we have to do is believe.”
My wife has a rather different definition of faithfulness than my simply believing she’s my wife.
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myfavoritmartin
Guest
Abraham was justified by works? Romans four, is that what it says? "Abraham was justified by what…? “Faith.” Abraham was not justified by works. Romans chapter three says, “No man is justified by works. By the deeds of the law shall…” what? “No flesh be justified,” none. There is no way that we can be justified. In Romans 3:28, “Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law.” Salvation is by faith, not by works. Galatians chapter three tells us the same thing, that you cannot be justified by works, you cannot be saved by what you do, in terms of deeds. He says, “…they that are of faith,” Galatians 3:9, “are blessed with faithful Abraham.” It’s all a matter of faith. The man that is justified, he says in verse 11, “But no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, … The just shall live by faith.” Now the Bible teaches that you are saved by faith, well you say that what in the world is James saying?
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myfavoritmartin
Guest
True faith shows in its fruits!
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Teflon93
Guest
Why, I was just reflecting on something similar the other day regarding Moses’ palace in Canaan—what’s that you say? Moses never entered the Promised Land? Because of something he DID and despite his faith in God?
Why, next you’ll be telling me that Adam and Eve were kicked out of Eden for doing something…
Deeds matter. Sin manifests most often in the form of wicked deeds. Repentance of sin, which Christ himself constantly called us to, is a deed, and a predicate for salvation, which is why Christ called us to repent of our sins and cease them. “Go and sin no more”, as he told the adultress, not “Believe in me and sin away,” as Luther would have us do.
Catholics do not believe our deeds merit salvation. Nothing we can do merits salvation, for nothing we can do can ever be commensurate with what Christ has already done for us.
That does not mean that our deeds, known by God, play no role in our salvation. Indeed, Christ’s ministry rebukes the very notion.
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Teflon93
Guest
Define “fruits”.
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mr_foster
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hAIR HELMETED TELE EVANGELIST ? No, Preachers Yes
Alter Calls umm i don’t really use that term but i think acts 2:38
qualifies
Phone pledges - absolutely not you can’t buy salvation. False teachers do that.
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myfavoritmartin
Guest
I’ll let Gal 5: explain it both good and bad fruits…
19Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these: fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20idolatry, sorcery, enmities, strife, jealousies, wraths, factions, divisions, parties, 21envyings, drunkenness, revellings, and such like; of which I forewarn you, even as I did forewarn you, that they who practise such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God. **22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, longsuffering, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23meekness, self-control; against such there is no law. **24And they that are of Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with the passions and the lusts thereof. 25If we live by the Spirit, by the Spirit let us also walk. 26Let us not become vainglorious, provoking one another, envying one another.
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mr_foster
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what the point. You know what fruits are just make your point. the fruits are the results of your faith. Fruits from the same seed look the same.
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sandusky
Guest
You can read Bullinger’s chapter on Idioms that covers the passages you bring up from John 6.
You eat a bit of bread, and drink a bit of wine.
Chapter 7 talks about the feast of booths which takes place in the autumn; could be one autumn, or more before the crucifixion.
When the angel went through the camp, he was looking for blood on the lintel posts; he was not interested in whether or not a family had eaten their meal.
If you take the actions surrounding the Passover so literally, do you put blood on the lintel posts of your home each time you take the Eucharist?
He tells why they couldn’t believe in Him, and why they left Him, if you’ve read the chapter, you’d know why.
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Fidelis
Guest
I think this thread has sufficiently been taken off topic to be closed that it has served it’s purpose. Thanks all for participating. I have had a lot of my original supicions confirmed.:tiphat:
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Orionthehunter
Guest
it really was illuminating. Thanks Fidelis.
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historyb
Guest
Like what?
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Philthy
Guest
I’ve never quite seen you squirm like this. What’s the big deal?
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sandusky
Guest
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