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drblank1
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All a rejection of salvation. A born-again Christian of God does none of these things.
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ajcstr
Guest
Well, I know we are obviously going to disagree on this because of our different views on baptism. I did end up posting my question under another forum topic.
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drblank1
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No, I am an “IF saved, always saved” believer.
From our human perspective, I guess one could CHOOSE to throw away eternal life. But from a spiritual perspective, what authentic, born-again, God-regenerated Christian would EVER do that!!! That would mean the devil was able to get into that Christian’s mind and turn that Christian against Jesus. But I don’t believe that could eve happen in anyway because I believe Jesus was speaking the Truth in John 10:28, " I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; no one will snatch them out of my hand."
I personally was given all the promises of the Bible on the day of my salvation way back when. They were given to me when I came to faith in Jesus and God saved. me. My question to James248, is this: when are all those wonderful GUARANTEES given a Catholic?
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drblank1
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James248’s assertion was charity was the sole requirement for entrance into Heaven.
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drblank1
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Sorry, didn’t read closely. It is a form of rejection of salvation, of which doesn’t not apply to the Christian.
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drblank1
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We don’t. We hold the entire Bible as the foundation of our belief. I asked you some pointed questions that you continue be dance around. I have addressed all you previous questions directly using scripture to explain Romans 11 and Hebrews 10.
For instance, if Hebrews 11 means what you say it does, then the authentic born-again believers who willfully sins has ZERO, NONE, ZILCH recourse for forgiveness. That means God contradicts Himself on many other passages in scripture.
I have provided clear scripture that shows Hebrews 11 could not possible mean what you purport in to mean. Please explain the CLEAR passages I have provided in the light of Hebrews 11. Please directly answer the questions I have asked.
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James248
Guest
All throughout this thread I have emphasized the necessity of faith. What I don’t believe in is the sufficiency of faith.
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James248
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Paul in Hebrews 10 says that no sacrifice for sin remains if we persist in sin. Jesus said in John 15 that if a branch does NOT bear fruit the Father will cut it off. Paul says in Romans 10 that God will not hesitate to cut the branches that He grafted off if they don’t continue in His kindness. My point is this: one CAN lose their salvation if they don’t remain faithful until death.
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drblank1
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Romans 5
“20 Now the law came in to increase the trespass, but where sin increased, grace abounded all the more, 21 so that, as sin reigned in death, grace also might reign through righteousness leading to eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.”
OK, we will have to move on from my unanswered questions. I am assured and confident of my salvation through my faith in Jesus. My prayer is for all on this forum to have that same peace.
God bless you my friend.
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James248
Guest
Put your questions in a list and
My prayer is that EVERYONE perseveres to the end and thus secures their lives.
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drblank1
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OK, one last time.
Answer each one individually since these events may happen at different times in the Catholic life.- When is one saved? Meaning, saved from hell/granted eternal life? Romans 5:9 and oh-so many other verses in the Bible.
- When is one sealed by the Holy Spirit? Eph 1:13, 4:30b
- When is one adopted into God’s family? Eph 1:5, Eph 1:11
- When does one pass from death to life? John 5:24, Eph 2:1-10
- When God says He selects us even before creation to eventually be glorified (Eph 1:4, Rom 8;29-30, 2 Thes 2:13, Phil 1:6), how much sin does it take for a born-again Christian to thwart God’s plan?
- Other than coming to faith, what are the specific works one must accomplish to be saved?
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drblank1
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QQ for clarification: do you believe once we come to faith, then it is our own righteous that keeps us in salvation? Or a combination of Jesus’ Righteousness and our own?
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Porknpie
Guest
St. Paul has hopeful confidence, but not false assurance in his salvation. That’s why he says :
3 But with me it is a very small thing that I should be judged by you or by any human court. I do not even judge myself. 4 I am not aware of anything against myself, but I am not thereby acquitted. It is the Lord who judges me. 1 Cor 4
Do you profess DrBlank that have infallible certitude in your salvation?
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drblank1
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Context! This scripture has nothing to do with salvation and everything to do with nature of true Apostleship. And if you would have continued with quoting verse 5, the judgement is not to condemn but to praise. “Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait until the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of the heart. At that time each will receive their praise from God.”
Not of myself, but ONLY because of God’s works of mercy in my life, and emphatic yes!!! Our salvation is secure because God originated it, He effected it, and He will complete it. Romans 8:29-30
1 John 5:11–13: “And this is the testimony: God has given us eternal life, and this life is in his Son. He who has the Son has life; he who does not have the Son of God does not have life. I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God so that you may know that you have eternal life.” Who is it that has the Son? It is those who have believed in Him (John 1:12). If you have Jesus, you have life. Not temporary life, but eternal.
God wants us to have assurance of our salvation. We should not live our Christian lives wondering and worrying each day whether or not we are truly saved.
God has always been crystal clear on HIS plan for salvation and how we can have assurance:
The idea of a person wanting to be saved but being unable to, due to not being one of the elect, is absolutely foreign to the Bible.
- No one seeks after God’s plan of salvation on his own accord (Romans 3:10-18).
- Those without Christ are blind to their need for salvation (2 Corinthians 4:4).
- This only changes when God begins drawing a person to Himself. It is God who opens eyes and enlightens minds to the need for Jesus Christ as Savior.
- A person cannot repent (change the mind about sin and the need for salvation) unless God grants repentance (Acts 11:18).
It is the Character of God (2 Timothy 1:12) and His promises (too many to list) that we can have our assurance. Not anything within ourselves.
The Gospel is not “do you best and maybe you might make it to Heaven”. That’s not good news. The Gospel is “believe and you will be saved!!!”
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Debbie_Kono
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I’d like to throw a hyothitical at you that a Protestant pastor could only answer with “I don’t know”.
A married man who loves his wife and kids, is a prominent leader in his church, loves the Lord…etc. Outwardly a wonderful Christian man. He BELIEVES! The only problem is the “romance” in his marriage isn’t enough for him. He takes on a lover. Leaving her house all content and satisfied, thinking of being with her the next night…he’s killed instantly in a car crash. No time to repent…at the exact moment of death he’s thinking about his next encounter. Is he going to heaven?
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drblank1
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If that man was selected/elected as defined in Romans 8:30, an authentic, born-again, regenerated-by-God Christian, then yes. He will go to Heaven.
The difficulty for Catholics in this hypothetical situation lie in the un-Biblical view of venial and mortal sin (all sin in mortal - James 2:10) and the possibility of losing one’s election/salvation. When we are saved, we are saved!
God is not in Heaven with his ledger saying, “Oh look, John Doe sinned to much today. I’m passing him back to the death column and blotting out his name in the Book of Life.” And the next day, “Oh John did a good deed today. His ledger in the positive again so I’m passing him back to life and rewriting his name back in the Book of Life”. God says He will NOT blot our name out of the Book of Life. It is a promise, not a warning.
Consider this scripture: “But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Christ died for us. Since we have now been justified by His blood, how much more shall we be saved from God’s wrath through Him! For if, while we were God’s enemies, we were reconciled to Him through the death of His Son, how much more, having been reconciled, shall we be saved through His life!” (Romans 5:8–10).
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drblank1
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Also consider Colossians 2:13-14 “When you were dead in your transgressions and the uncircumcision of your flesh, He [God] made you alive together with Him [Christ], having forgiven us all our transgressions, having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.” (names and emphasis added)
God has “forgiven us all our transgressions.” Not just the sins of the past, but all of them.
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Debbie_Kono
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Ok then. If I’m understanding you correctly, if the man in my hypothetical is one of the elect it doesn’t matter how he lives? Because no amount of sin can separate him from God? Or loose his place in heaven? Not even adultery/fornication or whatever you might call this man’s sin?
What about nothing unholy being able to enter into the Presence of God? Does this man merely by virtue of his death become holy?
So then the list of sins in Galatians 5:19-21 and 1 Corinthians 6:9-11 that clearly states one “shall not obtain the kingdom of God” only apply to the non-elect? Or doesn’t it really matter…cause the non-elect aren’t going to heaven anyway? I’m confused.
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Porknpie
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St John Chrysostom disagrees with you. He attests to these scripture verses having much to do about salvation.
Perhaps you’ve never read his Homily 11, covering 1 Corinthians 4:3-5.
More on this 4th century Doctor of the Church here.
Note: His Homily 11 was of course part of the Liturgy of the Word, which proceeds the Liturgy of the Eucharist …at Mass.
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rcwitness
Guest
If he perseveres in the life he was saved into. If not, then he believed in vain, and did not have love from above. We should know our present state, but we do not know our future state. Though we should have a living hope and faith that we might make it to the finish in his good grace.
1 John 5
And if we know that he hears us in whatever we ask, we know that we have obtained the requests made of him.*If any one sees his brother committing what is not a mortal sin, he will ask, and God will give him life for those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin which is mortal; I do not say that one is to pray for that.*All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin which is not mortal.
Doing “a good deed” does not mean we don’t need to repent from sins committed. This caricature does not represent Catholic belief.
There are Scripture passages that you are neglecting.
Romans 11
Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off.
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