JW stopped by my house......

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I think his point was to diminish Peter’s role.

JW’s get in trouble if they explore for themselves. They can only study what they are told they should.

The CC has banned books, too, but it is more of a tool to identify literature that is blasphemous and the like. People are not monitored, reported and
for it.

I understand the notion of protecting children in formation from material that opposes a person’s Faith. There comes a time when alternatives should be explored. This is what does not happen with JW’s. The adults are treated like children, and WT is the parent.
The Church hierarchy is similar, but, there isn’t the system of intimidation and control as with the WT org.

I wouldn’t be surprised if our JW friend is ambitious for a leadership role in his church and that he is being monitored by his superiors for his abiltiy to debate, and such. I don’t believe it would be allowed, otherwise.

How on target am I dj?
What ?
JW’s get in trouble if they explore for themselves ?
They can only study what they are told they should ?
“disfellowshipped” ???

…You can’t be serious. Do you know this to be true of the JWs?
I thought it was just no birthday parties and no holidays…
 
What ?
JW’s get in trouble if they explore for themselves ?
They can only study what they are told they should ?
“disfellowshipped” ???

…You can’t be serious. Do you know this to be true of the JWs?
I thought it was just no birthday parties and no holidays…
Ha! No b-day parties and no holidays are the tip of the iceberg my friend.

This I know to be true:

JWs cannot read any religious material not published by the Watchtower. Wait, I take that back - they could if they wanted to, but they are brainwashed into believing that all religious material not published by the Watchtower is of SATAN and why would anyone want to listen to SATAN??

So yes, they only study what they are told. Period.

Once a JW is baptized, he cannot question anything the society says. Doing so would show he is spiritually weak. Disobeying the Watchtower Society is the same as disobeying Jehovah God and would result in disfellowshipping.

A disfellowshipped Witness must continue to go to all scheduled “meetings” but he/she must sit in the back of the kingdom hall and cannot be spoken to by anyone, including family members. After a period of time, usually a 6 month minimum, the disfellowshipped person can ask the elders to “reinstate” him. The elders decide whether the JW is truly sorry for his sin. They often decide the JW is NOT fully sorry and the JW must continue to sit in the back of the kindom hall in silence until more time has passed. If you have knowledge that your friend or family member is speaking against the Watchtower Society or expressing doubts in any of the doctrines, you MUST report said person to the elders or risk being disfellowshipped yourself.
 
I know for a fact that children are punished by their parents for even questioning it out loud, never mind reading or exploring. And, officially they will tell you it’s okay, but, in reality, their lives are monitored for its “holiness” if you will, or their adherence to the “doctrines”. A person wishing to be in good standing and not anathema must be putting in their missionary (door-to-door) hours and acting like a good little JW. Superiors actually conference on each member. Our friend will deny it, but, I happen to know this to be true from former members.

It is true that in the Church, people who wish to be in leadership positions are under scrutiny. There is some of that everywhere you go. But, they isolate JW’s so that they are dependent on each other. This keeps everyone in line out of fear. Subtle, but effective, if you ask me.

The norms of society work like this, always have. JW’s are a society in and of themselves, and, it could be construed as acceptabe except the fact that the founders hijacked the truth and are leading people astray. Demonic in its origins, for sure. This is evidenced most by its intimidation through fear. Fear of rejection and chastisement. It is psychological abuse, just as the ex JW’s say it is. Check out ex JW’s raised in it. They are a veritable mess.
 
They also keep records of their house visits. How they were received, etc.
 
That explains why they never came back to my house after I engaged them in a theological discussion…
Here is my thinking on all of these ridiculous comments and accusations…John 15:21; and the principal behind Acts 18:6

Would you listen to or read a book from Judas Iscariot? And now with regard to my all of my posts (Acts 20:25-27)*“And now, look! I know that all of YOU among whom I went preaching the kingdom will see my face no more. 26 Hence I call YOU to witness this very day that I am clean from the blood of all men, 27 for I have not held back from telling YOU all the counsel of God.

How interesting you take God’s Name out of your Song Books. Jeremiah 23:27
 
I know for a fact that children are punished by their parents for even questioning it out loud, never mind reading or exploring. And, officially they will tell you it’s okay, but, in reality, their lives are monitored for its “holiness” if you will, or their adherence to the “doctrines”. A person wishing to be in good standing and not anathema must be putting in their missionary (door-to-door) hours and acting like a good little JW. Superiors actually conference on each member. Our friend will deny it, but, I happen to know this to be true from former members.
It is true that in the Church, people who wish to be in leadership positions are under scrutiny. There is some of that everywhere you go. But, they isolate JW’s so that they are dependent on each other. This keeps everyone in line out of fear. Subtle, but effective, if you ask me.
Whether you agree with this or not doesn’t really matter. THIS is our thinking.

Jehovah’s Witnesses carry on their public ministry in obedience to divine instructions. Jesus said that during this “conclusion of the system of things,” the “good news of the kingdom [must] be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.” (Matthew 24:3, 14) So Witnesses do not go to people’s doors searching for truth or enlightenment. Rather, they already have devoted countless hours (me? 41,000 hours) learning the truth from God’s Word and, having taken in the “good news,” they are obediently going forth to share it.

Many people who believe that ‘there is good in all religions’ might consider it narrow-minded to think otherwise. (Contrast Jesus’ view expressed at Matthew 7:13, 14, 21-23.) The Greek philosophers in ancient Athens encouraged such an “open-minded” attitude and enjoyed “telling something or listening to something new.” (Acts 17:18-21) But when the apostle Paul appeared before them, it was not to swap philosophies or ideas. He used the occasion to present what he knew to be the truth, whether he was considered narrow-minded or not. While some of those Athenians mocked him, a number responded and became believers.—Acts 17:32-34; 2 Corinthians 6:14-18.

Paul obviously was aware of some Greek teachings, and he used such knowledge to give a most effective witness. (Acts 17:28) Similarly, Jehovah’s Witnesses are not ignorant of others’ beliefs. They have gained considerable basic knowledge of the doctrinal beliefs of religions common in their area. Consideration to such teachings has been given in the book What Has Religion Done for Mankind? And Mankind’s Search for God as well as numerous articles in The Watchtower and Awake! Such information on various religions is presented in the context of its contrast with accurate Biblical teachings.

God’s Word warns Christians that “Satan himself keeps transforming himself into an angel of light. It is therefore nothing great if his ministers also keep transforming themselves into ministers of righteousness. But their end shall be according to their works.” (2 Corinthians 11:14, 15) Satan so successfully appeared as “an angel of light” that he was able to deceive even a perfect human, Eve. (1 Timothy 2:14) So it would be foolhardy, as well as a waste of valuable time, for Jehovah’s Witnesses to accept and expose themselves to what in their view would be perhaps sincere but still, false religious literature that may be designed to deceive. They have no intention of falling into the sad course of the Jews, whom Paul said “exchanged the truth of God for the lie.”—Romans 1:25, NW; Revised Standard Version.

Furthermore, some of the religious literature that people may urge Jehovah’s Witnesses to read is written by, or contains the thoughts of, individuals who have apostatized. True Christians are commanded to shun such apostates. (2 John 9-11; Titus 3:10, 11) Appropriately, then, The Watchtower of June 15, 1983, counseled:
“In the first century, Hymenaeus and Philetus turned apostate and tried to subvert the faith of others. God’s standard was: ‘Shun such empty speeches that violate what is holy.’ (2 Timothy 2:16-19) Christians holding to that standard would not have been interested in listening to apostates, nor in obtaining any poisonous writings that these might distribute ‘for the sake of dishonest gain.’ Why finance their wickedness by buying their literature? (Titus 1:11)

As loyal Christians we hold to God’s standards, feeding our minds on what is true and righteous, and holding appreciatively and loyally to the channel from which we first learned Bible truth.—Compare 1 Timothy 4:16.

Hence, it is out of wisdom and respect for God’s counsel that Jehovah’s Witnesses do not make a practice of exchanging valuable Bible study aids containing Scriptural truth for religious literature that disseminates error or apostate views.

YOU all need to make a choice soon Rev. 18:4,7,8,9,23
 
YOU all need to make a choice soon Rev. 18:4,7,8,9,23
I choose Jesus Christ and the Church he founded… a Church that exists all over the world. A Church that has been proclaiming the gospel of Jesus Christ since Pentecost. A church that not only proclaims the gospel, but feeds the hungry, clothes the naked, heals the sick, cares for the poor.

I reject all false prophets who preach a different gospel… a different Jesus. How do we know who these false prophets are? So simple… the Bible tells us that if ONE thing they proclaim does not happen, just as they claim it will, we are to ignore them because they do NOT preach in His name. In their very brief history, how many times have the things the JW have preached come true? ZERO. Not one time. Therefore, I reject the false prophet Charles T. Russell and his small band of followers.

djdave, WHY do you ignore God’s warning of false prophets? In Deut 18 God tells us how to identify a false prophet. JWs fit His description perfectly. Why don’t you heed His warning? Charles T. Russell claimed God chose him to speak to the nations. He claimed he was God’s faithful and discreet slave. He claimed God put the words on His lips. Not one of his claims came true. Why do you cling to a church founded by a false prophet?

17 The LORD said to me: “What they say is good. 18 I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him. 19 If anyone does not listen to my words that the prophet speaks in my name, I myself will call him to account. 20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded him to say, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, must be put to death.”

21 You may say to yourselves, “How can we know when a message has not been spoken by the LORD ?” 22 If what a prophet proclaims in the name of the LORD does not take place or come true, that is a message the LORD has not spoken. That prophet has spoken presumptuously. Do not be afraid of him.
 
JWs are not just supposed to refrain from buying other religion’s books, but reading them as well, and even from entertaining their ideas. This approach may save time and money, but it also presupposes that the other religions and dissenters from the Watchtower society are wrong. What if they’re not?
 
I reject all false prophets who preach a different gospel… a different Jesus. How do we know who these false prophets are? So simple… the Bible tells us that if ONE thing they proclaim does not happen, just as they claim it will, we are to ignore them because they do NOT preach in His name. In their very brief history, how many times have the things the JW have preached come true? ZERO. Not one time. Therefore, I reject the false prophet Charles T. Russell and his small band of followers.
Can you name one prophecy that was stated by Russel were he actually said "THIS is what JEHOVAH has said "…

In their eagerness for Jesus’ second coming, some have suggested dates that turned out to be incorrect. Because of this, some have called them false prophets. Never in these instances, however, did they presume to originate predictions ‘in the name of Jehovah.’ Never did they say, ‘These are the words of Jehovah.’ The Watchtower, the official journal of Jehovah’s Witnesses, has said: “We have not the gift of prophecy.” (January 1883, page 425) “Nor would we have our writings reverenced or regarded as infallible.” (December 15, 1896, page 306)

The Watchtower has also said that the fact that some have Jehovah’s spirit “does not mean those now serving as Jehovah’s witnesses are inspired. It does not mean that the writings in The Watchtower are inspired and infallible and without mistakes.” (May 15, 1947, page 157) “The Watchtower does not claim to be inspired in its utterances, nor is it dogmatic.” (August 15, 1950, page 263) “The brothers preparing these publications are not infallible. Their writings are not inspired as are those of Paul and the other Bible writers. (2Tim. 3:16) And so, as I have stated many times…at times, it has been necessary, as understanding became clearer, to correct views. (Prov. 4:18)”—February 15, 1981, page19.

And then there are these “end of the world” accounts…
• In the 5th century, the Council of Ephesus decided the millenium had already begun.
•** Pope Gregory I, 590-604 C.E., predicted the imminent end of the world. **
Spanish Monk Beatus predicts it for 800 A.D. **
• An ecumenical council for the Roman Catholic Church announces Christ’s return by 1000.
• Aelfric, the Abbott of Eynsham predicts it for the year 1000.
• Abbo of Fleury, the French Abbott predicts it for predicts it for 994/996.
• Richard of St. Vaast leads a pilgrimage for the predicted end in 1033.
• 1184 is the target date for the return of the Antichrist according to many…
• and again in 1345-1385
• Joachim of Fiore(1135-1202) used the New Testament and the Trinity to proclaim the coming of the anti-christ in 1260 A.D.
1260 is also touted by Brother Arnold (Dominican Monk) • Speaking of the Trinity, the Church Father who first coined the term, Tertullian was a Montanist(a deeply apocalyptical sect).
• Jean de Roquetaillade announced it for 1366
• ** Roman Catholic, Arnald of Villanova, predicted the appearance of the Antichrist in 1378 • The Taborites predict it for 1420.
• ** Priest Martinek Hauska announces doom for 1420. **
• Hans Hut announced the end for1528
• ** Cardinal Nicholas of Cusa announced it for 1533 • Melchior Hoffman announced it for 1593
• The Fifth Monarchists predicted between 1655-57
• A Lutheran named Adam Nachenmoser announced it for 1635
• Lutheran leader, Andreas Osiander announced it for 1672
• Jan Matthys announced for 1534
• Archbishop of York and Primate of England, Edwin Sandys (1519-1588) proclaimed the imminent end
• John Wycliffe announced it for 1379
• One of the first Baptist groups, The Anabaptists believed that the Millenium would occur in 1533
• Reformer John Foxe believed the last days would start in 1600. He was shared in this view by Robert Pont
• New England Minister Jonathan Edwards predicts 1866
• The Puritans predict it for 1700
• Emanuel Swedenborg predicts the end for 1757
Anglican rector Thomas Beverly predict 1697
• Anglican rector John Mason for 1694

Pierre Jurie predicts the end for 1689
Sir Walter Raleigh, Hugh Broughton and Thomas Brightman thought it would not be until 1700
Christopher Columbus said the world was going to end in 1656

Deacon William Aspinwall (General Court) predicts the end for 1673****
Cardinal Pierre d’Ailly announced it for 1789**
The Shakers announced it for 1792
Lavater announced it for 1795
Some Christian believers in Russia thought that Peter the Great was the Anti-Christ in the 1660’s.
Historic Jews in the 17th century believed that the Messiah would come in the year 1648.
John Napier announced it for 1688 or 1700
……

And the list goes on….
also see
users.picknowl.com.au/~hepburn/prophecy.htm

BTW this too is interesting primitivechristians.com/Bible-Files/wmartin.htm
 
1 John 2:22:

"Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist-he denies the Father and the Son."

“Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to decieve.”
–Andy Griffith

You’re busted, my friend.
 
Can you name one prophecy that was stated by Russel were he actually said "THIS is what JEHOVAH has said "…
I don’t want to do this again. Where I post all sorts of things that Russell said… about being Jehovah’s mouthpiece… that Jehovah actually puts the words on his lips… that Jehovah is using him, the faithful & discreet slave to give the proper food at the proper time.

I post all of that and then you say something about it not being literal… he isn’t actually a “prophet”… not like *that. *

Then you ask what actual prophecies failed?

Then I post all the dates and claims including the 1925 men of old being ressurected… and I post what was written inside the AWAKE magazine for decades about the generation not passing away…

Then you post how the word “generation” doesn’t actually mean generation… or passing away doesn’t mean passing away… more bright lights.

Then I remind you what it says in Duet. about false prophets.

Then you ask why we removed His name from our songbooks.

Then I think to myself… wow, random. But whatever.

And you sign off thinking we’re so crazy… it’s obvious who is right and who is wrong…

and I sign off thinking the same thing… only you get to turn in your time for all of these postings… and I’ve got nothing… 🤷 so, nevermind.

God bless you djdave! That your eyes may be opened and your heart may be receptive to the truth! The truth about Jesus, His Church, the Bible… that’s my prayer for you. :gopray2:
 
1 John 2:22:

"Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist-he denies the Father and the Son."

“Oh what a tangled web we weave, when first we practice to decieve.”
–Andy Griffith

You’re busted, my friend.
Oh, Y-E-S ! 🙂
Thank you Ceil.
 
Can you name one prophecy that was stated by Russel were he actually said "THIS is what JEHOVAH has said "…

In their eagerness for Jesus’ second coming, some have suggested dates that turned out to be incorrect. Because of this, some have called them false prophets. Never in these instances, however, did they presume to originate predictions ‘in the name of Jehovah.’ Never did they say, ‘These are the words of Jehovah.’ The Watchtower, the official journal of Jehovah’s Witnesses, has said: “We have not the gift of prophecy.” (January 1883, page 425) “Nor would we have our writings reverenced or regarded as infallible.” (December 15, 1896, page 306)

The Watchtower has also said that the fact that some have Jehovah’s spirit “does not mean those now serving as Jehovah’s witnesses are inspired. It does not mean that the writings in The Watchtower are inspired and infallible and without mistakes.” (May 15, 1947, page 157) “The Watchtower does not claim to be inspired in its utterances, nor is it dogmatic.” (August 15, 1950, page 263) “The brothers preparing these publications are not infallible. Their writings are not inspired as are those of Paul and the other Bible writers. (2Tim. 3:16) And so, as I have stated many times…at times, it has been necessary, as understanding became clearer, to correct views. (Prov. 4:18)”—February 15, 1981, page19.

Dave-
I have to say this is pitiful.
I think the people who write the articles in Awake & Watchtower, need to take the advice and instruction of those who wrote these earlier articles in Awake & Watchtower !!!

Every issue of Awake & Watchtower I see has more predictions ! You say “The Watchtower does not claim to be inspired in its utterances, nor is it dogmatic.” ???
Why then do they (don’t you find it strange that the writers of these articles never identify themselves? ) continue to write such ?

PLEASE, get out and study on your own, I pray that your eyes may be opened.
 
I don’t want to do this again. Where I post all sorts of things that Russell said… about being Jehovah’s mouthpiece… that Jehovah actually puts the words on his lips… that Jehovah is using him, the faithful & discreet slave to give the proper food at the proper time.

I post all of that and then you say something about it not being literal… he isn’t actually a “prophet”… not like *that. *

Then you ask what actual prophecies failed?

Then I post all the dates and claims including the 1925 men of old being ressurected… and I post what was written inside the AWAKE magazine for decades about the generation not passing away…

Then you post how the word “generation” doesn’t actually mean generation… or passing away doesn’t mean passing away… more bright lights.

Then I remind you what it says in Duet. about false prophets.

Then you ask why we removed His name from our songbooks.

Then I think to myself… wow, random. But whatever.

And you sign off thinking we’re so crazy… it’s obvious who is right and who is wrong…

and I sign off thinking the same thing… only you get to turn in your time for all of these postings… and I’ve got nothing… 🤷 so, nevermind.

God bless you djdave! That your eyes may be opened and your heart may be receptive to the truth! The truth about Jesus, His Church, the Bible… that’s my prayer for you. :gopray2:
I know, it is SO tough going over this again and again.
And SAD.
How much of scripture is man willing to disregard in the search for a faith which is acceptable to him?
 
There is still the issue that if you are a modern Jehovah’s Witness, much of the New Testament does not apply to you and is not addressed to you. No adoption, no sonship, no being an heir (instead of a servant), no seeing God face to face, no fellowshipping in heaven, the description in Revelation of the saved state is not where you’ll be living. They claim the Bible doesn’t teach the trinity, but where does it teach a two-class salvation system, where the second class is indeed second class.
 
There is still the issue that if you are a modern Jehovah’s Witness, much of the New Testament does not apply to you and is not addressed to you. No adoption, no sonship, no being an heir (instead of a servant), no seeing God face to face, no fellowshipping in heaven, the description in Revelation of the saved state is not where you’ll be living. They claim the Bible doesn’t teach the trinity, but where does it teach a two-class salvation system, where the second class is indeed second class.
So true… I knew of woman who had several children. She decided she was one of the 144,000 who got to go to heaven. Her husband and children were not. Imagine how heartbreaking it was for the children … they were so sad that their Mommy would not spend eternity with them. They would be left here on the earth forever without her.

Talk about being left behind?! :rolleyes:

Additionally, it’s not the blood of Christ that provides a ransom for those left on earth. It’s through the faithfulness of the 144,000 annointed who go to heaven. Jesus Christ died for them only. They place themseles as “saviors” of the earthly class. How do you even begin to doubt or question the Governing Body of the Watchtower - the “annointed” when they are the ones providing for YOUR salvation? How twisted is that?!
 
So true… I knew of woman who had several children. She decided she was one of the 144,000 who got to go to heaven. Her husband and children were not. Imagine how heartbreaking it was for the children … they were so sad that their Mommy would not spend eternity with them. They would be left here on the earth forever without her.

Talk about being left behind?! :rolleyes:

Additionally, it’s not the blood of Christ that provides a ransom for those left on earth. It’s through the faithfulness of the 144,000 annointed who go to heaven. Jesus Christ died for them only. They place themseles as “saviors” of the earthly class. How do you even begin to doubt or question the Governing Body of the Watchtower - the “annointed” when they are the ones providing for YOUR salvation? How twisted is that?!
VERY twisted.
Tell me folks, has anyone ever heard of a JW who actually openned his eyes to the truth, or been able to see the UNtruth of their situation ? I would like to hear their story… there must be SOME out there !
Teaching the truth to a JW is a lot like performing an exorcism.
 
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