JW stopped by my house......

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dj dave:

I am sad to say that you are so brainwashed and programmed to reject the truth that you cannot think for yourself. You spout scripture, that the WBTS has provided, by rote and I bet that you really do not make the connection. You are also not allowed to reference or read anything other than what the WTBS tells you to. You have lost the God given gift of free will. You call yourselves Christians, but you do not honor or recognize Him as God. You also claim to have the truth but are so far from it that I doubt if you will ever find it. The WBTS has truly deceived you. It is not God’s mouthpiece. With all that it has done to you I can truthfully say that it is the devil’s mouthpiece. It is the one that dishonors God.
I am sorry to be so harsh , but it is the truth. The sooner you wake up and realize it, the sooner you will have true knowledge and love and the sooner you will be free of the morass that you are in. We all pray for you.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
 
Javl said:
dj dave:

I am sad to say that you are so brainwashed and programmed to reject the truth that you cannot think for yourself. You spout scripture, that the WBTS has provided, by rote and I bet that you really do not make the connection. You are also not allowed to reference or read anything other than what the WTBS tells you to. You have lost the God given gift of free will. You call yourselves Christians, but you do not honor or recognize Him as God. You also claim to have the truth but are so far from it that I doubt if you will ever find it. The WBTS has truly deceived you. It is not God’s mouthpiece. With all that it has done to you I can truthfully say that it is the devil’s mouthpiece. It is the one that dishonors God.
I am sorry to be so harsh , but it is the truth. The sooner you wake up and realize it, the sooner you will have true knowledge and love and the sooner you will be free of the morass that you are in. We all pray for you.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
Click to expand...
How painful this all is, because it is so true.
Here we are enjoying a banquet, yet we cannot feed a brother who is starving before our eyes-because he refuses to eat.
Pray, pray, pray !
 
[SIGN]Bob4BVM

Yes Dave, sure.
Do you truly believe, in your heart, that Jehovah is worried about you having a little party to celebrate your 4 year old daughter’s being born into the beautiful world He created ?
If so your vision of God must be a jealous God, without the immense LOVE He has for us, He is love itself, with no room for the petty jealousy your belief implies.
Didn’t it strike you as rather ODD when you were first taught such ?[/SIGN]

I truly understand how you could feel that way. But we must be careful that what WE think does not eclipse what Jehovah has warned us about. Can you for example picture God allowing us to “make a wish” on blowing out candles? Compare Isa. 65:11

It may seem innocent but what are we teaching our children? Luke 16:10

In the first two of the Ten Commandments given through Moses, God said: “I am Jehovah your God . . . You must never have any other gods against my face . . . because I Jehovah your God am a God exacting exclusive devotion.” (Deuteronomy 5:6-9) This expression has reference to the fact that Jehovah does not tolerate any rivalry, the worship of any other gods. The Hebrew word qan·na’′ is used only of God; it means “exacting exclusive devotion; jealous.”—Ex 20:5]

Even the suggestion of false worship would not be tolerated, as was seen time and again in God’s dealings with the nation of Israel.

For example, while Moses was yet on Mount Sinai where he received those commandments on two stone tablets, the Israelites began to mix symbols of Egyptian religion with their worship of Jehovah. After collecting gold earrings from the people, a molten statue of a calf was made. Then came the proclamation: “This is your God, O Israel, who led you up out of the land of Egypt.” The Bible account tells us: “Finally Aaron [Moses’ brother] called out and said: ‘There is a festival to Jehovah tomorrow.’ So on the next day they were early in rising, and they began offering up burnt offerings and presenting communion sacrifices. After that the people sat down to eat and drink. Then they got up to have a good time.”—Exodus 32:1-6.

The Israelites were professing to worship the true God. Remember, it was called “a festival to Jehovah.” They intended to associate Jehovah with the image. Yet, they were frolicking at a festival that mimicked an Egyptian deity, perhaps Apis, who was represented as a young bull. Was God pleased? Not at all. He nearly brought the nation to ruin on account of it!—Exodus 32:7-10. Compare 1 Cor 10:11

Similarly, God expects Christians to keep their worship pure and untainted, having nothing to do with customs, symbols, or festivals associated with false gods.

“The Greeks believed that everyone had a protective spirit or daemon who attended his birth and watched over him in life. This spirit had a mystic relation with the god on whose birthday the individual was born. The Romans also subscribed to this idea. . . . This notion was carried down in human belief and is reflected in the guardian angel, the fairy godmother and the patron saint. . . . The custom of lighted candles on the cakes started with the Greeks. . . . Honey cakes round as the moon and lit with tapers were placed on the temple altars of [Artemis]. . . . Birthday candles, in folk belief, are endowed with special magic for granting wishes. . . . Lighted tapers and sacrificial fires have had a special mystic significance ever since man first set up altars to his gods. The birthday candles are thus an honor and tribute to the birthday child and bring good fortune. . . . Birthday greetings and wishes for happiness are an intrinsic part of this holiday. . . . Originally the idea was rooted in magic. . . . Birthday greetings have power for good or ill because one is closer to the spirit world on this day.”—**The Lore of Birthdays **(New York, 1952), Ralph and Adelin Linton, pp. 8, 18-20.
There is nothing wrong with fun get togethers.

Eccl. 3:12,13: “There is nothing better for them than to rejoice and to do good during one’s life; and also that every man should eat and indeed drink and see good for all his hard work. It is the gift of God.”
See also 1 Corinthians 10:31.

…But we must avoid “unclean” seemingly insignificant small things when it involves our worship of God,

Jehovah’s Witnesses respect the right of others to celebrate birthdays,

AND then there is this…Ecclesiastes 7:1…
Question for you: What do you think Soloman was saying?

Also, one final thought If Adam and Eve never sinned do you think they would celebrate their Birhtday every year? Gen 5:5…Would you?
 
dj_dave said:
[SIGN]Bob4BVM

Yes Dave, sure.
Do you truly believe, in your heart, that Jehovah is worried about you having a little party to celebrate your 4 year old daughter’s being born into the beautiful world He created ?
If so your vision of God must be a jealous God, without the immense LOVE He has for us, He is love itself, with no room for the petty jealousy your belief implies.
Didn’t it strike you as rather ODD when you were first taught such ?[/SIGN]

I truly understand how you could feel that way. But we must be careful that what WE think does not eclipse what Jehovah has warned us about. Can you for example picture God allowing us to “make a wish” on blowing out candles? Compare Isa. 65:11

It may seem innocent but what are we teaching our children? Luke 16:10

In the first two of the Ten Commandments given through Moses, God said: “I am Jehovah your God . . . You must never have any other gods against my face . . . because I Jehovah your God am a God exacting exclusive devotion.” (Deuteronomy 5:6-9) This expression has reference to the fact that Jehovah does not tolerate any rivalry, the worship of any other gods. The Hebrew word qan·na’′ is used only of God; it means “exacting exclusive devotion; jealous.”—Ex 20:5]

Even the suggestion of false worship would not be tolerated, as was seen time and again in God’s dealings with the nation of Israel.

For example, while Moses was yet on Mount Sinai where he received those commandments on two stone tablets, the Israelites began to mix symbols of Egyptian religion with their worship of Jehovah. After collecting gold earrings from the people, a molten statue of a calf was made. Then came the proclamation: “This is your God, O Israel, who led you up out of the land of Egypt.” The Bible account tells us: “Finally Aaron [Moses’ brother] called out and said: ‘There is a festival to Jehovah tomorrow.’ So on the next day they were early in rising, and they began offering up burnt offerings and presenting communion sacrifices. After that the people sat down to eat and drink. Then they got up to have a good time.”—Exodus 32:1-6.

The Israelites were professing to worship the true God. Remember, it was called “a festival to Jehovah.” They intended to associate Jehovah with the image. Yet, they were frolicking at a festival that mimicked an Egyptian deity, perhaps Apis, who was represented as a young bull. Was God pleased? Not at all. He nearly brought the nation to ruin on account of it!—Exodus 32:7-10. Compare 1 Cor 10:11

Similarly, God expects Christians to keep their worship pure and untainted, having nothing to do with customs, symbols, or festivals associated with false gods.

“The Greeks believed that everyone had a protective spirit or daemon who attended his birth and watched over him in life. This spirit had a mystic relation with the god on whose birthday the individual was born. The Romans also subscribed to this idea. . . . This notion was carried down in human belief and is reflected in the guardian angel, the fairy godmother and the patron saint. . . . The custom of lighted candles on the cakes started with the Greeks. . . . Honey cakes round as the moon and lit with tapers were placed on the temple altars of [Artemis]. . . . Birthday candles, in folk belief, are endowed with special magic for granting wishes. . . . Lighted tapers and sacrificial fires have had a special mystic significance ever since man first set up altars to his gods. The birthday candles are thus an honor and tribute to the birthday child and bring good fortune. . . . Birthday greetings and wishes for happiness are an intrinsic part of this holiday. . . . Originally the idea was rooted in magic. . . . Birthday greetings have power for good or ill because one is closer to the spirit world on this day.”—**The Lore of Birthdays **(New York, 1952), Ralph and Adelin Linton, pp. 8, 18-20.
There is nothing wrong with fun get togethers.

Eccl. 3:12,13: “There is nothing better for them than to rejoice and to do good during one’s life; and also that every man should eat and indeed drink and see good for all his hard work. It is the gift of God.”
See also 1 Corinthians 10:31.

…But we must avoid “unclean” seemingly insignificant small things when it involves our worship of God,

Jehovah’s Witnesses respect the right of others to celebrate birthdays,

AND then there is this…Ecclesiastes 7:1…
Question for you: What do you think Soloman was saying?

Also, one final thought If Adam and Eve never sinned do you think they would celebrate their Birhtday every year? Gen 5:5…Would you?
Click to expand...
dj dave: I’ve heard all this rhetoric many times before. There are many statements that can easily be refuted/rebuked. Have you ever asked why the WBTS dwells on the Old Testament writings rather than the New Testament where we were given a new commandment and a new everlasting covenant?

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
 
I always love the term, “real Christian”. One is only a “real” Christian, or a “real” Catholic if one shares in the accusers’ scrupulosity, which is known to be a psychological disorder.

A “real” Christian lives as St. Francis, and all the fine people who we refer specifically as saints with a capital S.

These people walked the walk. They didn’t just talk the talk. St. Francis truly lived a life separate from the rest. He lived more humbly than even the humblest person, b/c he desired that all his brothers and sisters fared better than him. He begged for his food, and had no where to lay his head (like Jesus). That is true worship of Jehovah, djDave. Love of God above all else and love of neighbor more than one’s self. It is the definition of dying to one’s self, taking his cross and following Him. The true and Biblical requirement for reaching heaven: ie: the Kingdom of God.

Your spirituality is couched in scrupulosity about things that don’t matter, while expressly disobeying the most strict command of all. Love your neighbor as yourself.
 
QUOTE FROM DJDAVE------------------
I truly understand how you could feel that way. But we must be careful that what WE think does not eclipse what Jehovah has warned us about. Can you for example picture God allowing us to “make a wish” on blowing out candles? Compare Isa. 65:11

It may seem innocent but what are we teaching our children? Luke 16:10

In the first two of the Ten Commandments given through Moses, God said: “I am Jehovah your God . . . You must never have any other gods against my face . . . because I Jehovah your God am a God exacting exclusive devotion.” (Deuteronomy 5:6-9) This expression has reference to the fact that Jehovah does not tolerate any rivalry, the worship of any other gods. The Hebrew word qan·na’′ is used only of God; it means “exacting exclusive devotion; jealous.”—Ex 20:5]

Even the suggestion of false worship would not be tolerated, as was seen time and again in God’s dealings with the nation of Israel.

For example, while Moses was yet on Mount Sinai where he received those commandments on two stone tablets, the Israelites began to mix symbols of Egyptian religion with their worship of Jehovah. After collecting gold earrings from the people, a molten statue of a calf was made. Then came the proclamation: “This is your God, O Israel, who led you up out of the land of Egypt.” The Bible account tells us: “Finally Aaron [Moses’ brother] called out and said: ‘There is a festival to Jehovah tomorrow.’ So on the next day they were early in rising, and they began offering up burnt offerings and presenting communion sacrifices. After that the people sat down to eat and drink. Then they got up to have a good time.”—Exodus 32:1-6.

The Israelites were professing to worship the true God. Remember, it was called “a festival to Jehovah.” They intended to associate Jehovah with the image. Yet, they were frolicking at a festival that mimicked an Egyptian deity, perhaps Apis, who was represented as a young bull. Was God pleased? Not at all. He nearly brought the nation to ruin on account of it!—Exodus 32:7-10. Compare 1 Cor 10:11

Similarly, God expects Christians to keep their worship pure and untainted, having nothing to do with customs, symbols, or festivals associated with false gods.

. . . The custom of lighted candles on the cakes started with the Greeks. . . . Honey cakes round as the moon and lit with tapers were placed on the temple altars of [Artemis]. . . . Birthday candles, in folk belief, are endowed with special magic for granting wishes. . . . Lighted tapers and sacrificial fires have had a special mystic significance ever since man first set up altars to his gods. The birthday candles are thus an honor and tribute to the birthday child and bring good fortune. . . . Birthday greetings and wishes for happiness are an intrinsic part of this holiday. . . . Originally the idea was rooted in magic. . . . Birthday greetings have power for good or ill because one is closer to the spirit world on this day.”—**The Lore of Birthdays **(New

Eccl. 3:12,13: “There is nothing better for them than to rejoice and to do good during one’s life; and also that every man should eat and indeed drink and see good for all his hard work. It is the gift of God.”
See also 1 Corinthians 10:31.
…But we must avoid “unclean” seemingly insignificant small things when it involves our worship of God,
AND then there is this…Ecclesiastes 7:1…
Question for you: What do you think Soloman was saying?
END QUOTE----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dave,
What you wrote here reveals a significant difference between us, and i am guessing between JWs & RCs, and probably between JWs and many protestant Christians as well.
In my Faith, there is little separation between what I do in worship and during the rest of my time, because I know that Christ is with me all the time. He shares my entire life, like a good friend or the closest family member. As a matter of fact Jesus Christ is closer to me than all others because He knows my heart better than anyone. He has requested that I include Him in my everyday life as a true friend, not just during the times I ‘formally’ worship Him. I have accepted that request. HE is PRESENT by invitation at all I do. Therefore He brings His grace into everything I invite Him to share with me. When I invite Him to be present, the very possibility of evil is banished. When done for His glory, all is joy and grace.
Therefore I needn’t worry about what some magician did with a particular practice in some cult, ancient or modern. I am FREED from that kind of worrisome burden.
In Christ, all is joy. Including birthday parties.
Don’t you see, He rejoices with us whenever we shower love on those around us. That was a big reason He came, to teach us that. When we are perfect , we will do it as well as HE did !
I try to take this challenge of His seriously every day of my life------> Jn 15:12: "This is my commandment: love one another as I have loved you. "

As for Eccl 7:1…
yes, there is value in facing suffering, and certainly there is incredible beauty in death, when you trust Christ in His promise to take you home with Him to His Father’s house.

But remember that Jesus came here that we may have life, to the fullest. He does not want us to mope about in sorrow, but to live each moment to the fullest, whether that is a moment of joy OR a moment of sorrow. It is all due to His creating us, we are to drink deeply of life whatever the situation. That is part and parcel of the New Covenant He made with us, which replaces the Old Covenant you keep referring to.
 
dj dave,

After reading many of your postings, it appears to me that you are very well educated in the JW’s beliefs. You seem to be a very devoted and strong JW. Truely this is to be admired when a person is so “Strong” in their faith.

Since this is the case, what could it hurt to take a look at what other’s believe and why they believe what they do? I don’t say this to “win” you over to become a Catholic, but just maybe you could come to understand us a little better.

I had studied with a JW off and on for 7 years, yet even though we enjoyed our studies together, it really bothered me that she wasn’t willing study on some of the topics I wanted to study on. In other words, I wanted to share some of the things I believed in and to show her why I did, not to convience her to change her mind, but a two way “type” of Bible study.

Well that came to an end when she moved.

Now I have another lady (JW) who comes to my door, wants to do a Bible study with JW material, and yet refuses to look at anything I want to show her. Needless to say, I won’t do a Bible study with her, unless I can also show her some of my material.

I’m not out to get into a Heated Debate with anyone. For no one wins anyone to our Lord that way. I’m only asking that if I’m willing to study with a JW, that half of the time spent be with my material too. That way we both have something to learn from each other.

But so far…not one JW is willing to even allow something like that.

So my question to you is this, (I am being sincere here) What is it that JW’s fear with an offer like that? If I’m not afraid to study with them and look at their material, why are JW’s afraid to look and study mine?
 
[SIGN]
adelore said:
[/SIGN]

Hi Adelore,
thank you for your sincere posts and expressions. I understand how you feel to a point.
But, please let me explain how we think when it comes to this matter.

All of the dedicated baptized Jehovah’s Witnesses have undergone an extensive Bible Study training
program. They then make their own decision as to whether or not they have learned the “truth”
or they have not. Compare 2 Tim 4:3-6

They have already been going ‘house to house’ in proof of their desire to want to be part of the worldwide preaching activity (Mt. 24:14; Acts 20:20)
Code: 
Now, let’s just imagine for a moment that what they believe is true. That there is urgency with the Kingdom preaching work. Do you think it would be wise for them to stop and study with every different belief they come upon in their worldwide work? Hindus; Buddhists, Lutherans; Baptists; Catholics; ect.
A recent tabulation concluded that there are 10 main religions and some 10,000 sects. Of these, some 6,000 exist in Africa, 1,200 in the United States, and hundreds in other lands.

We have a 380 page book called Mankind’s Search for God …it has chapters on mythology, magic and spiritism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Taoism and Confucianism, Shinto, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. It also provides direction on how to worship God in the way that he approves.

Page Chapter
5 1. Why Be Interested in Other Religions?
19 2. Religion—How Did It Begin?
41 3. Common Threads in Mythology
69 4. Searching for the Unknown Through Magic and Spiritism
95 5. Hinduism—A Search for Liberation
129 6. Buddhism—A Search for Enlightenment Without God
161 7. Taoism and Confucianism—A Search for Heaven’s Way
187 8. Shinto—Japan’s Search for God
205 9. Judaism—Searching for God Through Scripture and Tradition
235 10. Christianity—Was Jesus the Way to God?
261 11. Apostasy—The Way to God Blocked
284 12. Islām—The Way to God by Submission
306 13. The Reformation—The Search Took a New Turn
329 14. Modern Disbelief—Should the Search Continue?
344 15. A Return to the True God
366 16. The True God and Your Future
380 Subject Index
383 Picture Credits

Notice how long each chapter is… We have much to say. These are confirmed answers from the sources.
All you have to do is ask for one (Matthew 10:8) . . .“YOU received free, give free”.

We do not drag people ‘kicking and screaming’ into what we firmly believe to be God’s organization. We seek only those that are looking for answers.
Notice this: We welcome questions. If you had a specific question at anytime we would be more than happy to address your concerns.

Conlusion:
Jehovah’s Witnesses carry on their public ministry in obedience to divine instructions. Jesus said that during this “conclusion of the system of things,” the “good news of the kingdom [must] be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and then the end will come.” (Matthew 24:3, 14) So Witnesses do not go to people’s doors searching for truth or enlightenment. Rather, as I have stated they already have devoted countless hours learning the truth from God’s Word and, having taken in the “good news,” they are obediently going forth to share it.

Many people who believe that ‘there is good in all religions’ might consider it narrow-minded to think otherwise.** (Contrast Jesus’ view expressed at Matthew 7:13, 14, 21-23.) **The Greek philosophers in ancient Athens encouraged such an “open-minded” attitude and enjoyed “telling something or listening to something new.” (Acts 17:18-21) But when the apostle Paul appeared before them, it was not to swap philosophies or ideas. He used the occasion to present what he knew to be the truth, whether he was considered narrow-minded or not. While some of those Athenians mocked him, a number responded and became believers.—Acts 17:32-34; 2 Corinthians 6:14-18.

Furthermore, some of the religious literature that people may urge Jehovah’s Witnesses to read is written by, or contains the thoughts of, individuals who have apostatized. True Christians are commanded to shun such apostates. (2 John 9-11; Titus 3:10, 11)

Now, if you like, I would be happy to address any part of the “The Essential Catholic Survival Guide and Where’s That in the Bible?” questions that you would like to get a Jehovah’s Witness answer or reply to.
Click to expand...
 
[SIGN]Javl;5992854]dj dave: I’ve heard all this rhetoric many times before. There are many statements that can easily be refuted/rebuked.** Have you ever asked why the WBTS dwells on the Old Testament writings rather than the New Testament where we were given a new commandment and a new everlasting covenant? **

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem[/SIGN]

As to your questionm please notice the following

(2 Timothy 3:16) All Scripture is inspired of God and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, for disciplining in righteousness,

Though penned many centuries ago, God’s Word is dynamic. (Hebrews 4:12) It presents us with true accounts of the lives of Bible characters. While customs and points of view have changed much since Bible times, the challenges we have to face are often similar to those faced back then. Many stories preserved for our benefit in the Bible offer us touching examples of people who loved Jehovah and served him faithfully despite adverse circumstances. Other accounts call attention to the kind of conduct that God hates. Jehovah had all these personal histories, good and bad, included in the Bible as reminders.

The importance of the Hebrew Scriptures cannot be overemphasized, for without their law code, history, and prophecies, much in the Christian Greek Scriptures would be doubtful in meaning. (Lu 24:27,44) “*For all the things that were written **aforetime **were written for our instruction./I]” “*Now these things went on befalling them as examples, and they were **written for a warning to us ***upon whom the ends of the systems of things have arrived.” (Ro 15:4; 1Co 10:11) Hence, the Christian Bible writers repeatedly quoted from and alluded to the former Bible writings, in this way carrying forward and expanding many of the themes and promises set forth in the Hebrew Scriptures. In the Christian Greek Scriptures, the New World Translation presents as direct quotations 320 passages from the Hebrew Scriptures. According to a listing published by Westcott and Hort, the combined total of quotations and references is some 890.

Without the Hebrew Scriptures we would be lacking many details about man’s origin, the cause of death, and the Edenic promise that the Serpent’s head will be crushed by the seed of the woman. Without the Hebrew Scriptures we would not know many details about such things as the Noachian Flood, why blood is sacred, God’s covenant with Abraham, how Jehovah fought for his covenant people, and the history of the pictorial theocratic kingdom.

We also have over 1000 3 page articles on New Commandment and a New Everlasting Covenant.*
 
adelore said:
dj dave,

After reading many of your postings, it appears to me that you are very well educated in the JW’s beliefs. You seem to be a very devoted and strong JW. Truely this is to be admired when a person is so “Strong” in their faith.

Since this is the case, what could it hurt to take a look at what other’s believe and why they believe what they do? I don’t say this to “win” you over to become a Catholic, but just maybe you could come to understand us a little better.

I had studied with a JW off and on for 7 years, yet even though we enjoyed our studies together, it really bothered me that she wasn’t willing study on some of the topics I wanted to study on. In other words, I wanted to share some of the things I believed in and to show her why I did, not to convience her to change her mind, but a two way “type” of Bible study.

Well that came to an end when she moved.

Now I have another lady (JW) who comes to my door, wants to do a Bible study with JW material, and yet refuses to look at anything I want to show her. Needless to say, I won’t do a Bible study with her, unless I can also show her some of my material.

I’m not out to get into a Heated Debate with anyone. For no one wins anyone to our Lord that way. I’m only asking that if I’m willing to study with a JW, that half of the time spent be with my material too. That way we both have something to learn from each other.

But so far…not one JW is willing to even allow something like that.

So my question to you is this, (I am being sincere here) What is it that JW’s fear with an offer like that? If I’m not afraid to study with them and look at their material, why are JW’s afraid to look and study mine?
Click to expand...
I know, i’ve had the same thing here. It’s their way, or no way.
Absolutely closed to the possibility of any truth outside of what they are programmed to believe. Sharp contrast to any other religious group i’ve ever talked to…
 
dj_dave said:
[SIGN][/SIGN]

All of the dedicated baptized Jehovah’s Witnesses have undergone an extensive Bible Study training program.
They then make their own decision as to whether or not they have learned the “truth”
or they have not.

Page Chapter
235 10. Christianity—Was Jesus the Way to God?
261 11. Apostasy—The Way to God Blocked

Notice how long each chapter is… We have much to say. These are confirmed answers from the sources.
apostatized. True Christians are commanded to shun such apostates. (2 John 9-11; Titus 3:10, 11)

Now, if you like, I would be happy to address any part of the “The Essential Catholic Survival Guide and Where’s That in the Bible?” questions that you would like to get a Jehovah’s Witness answer or reply to.
Click to expand...
Dave-
Had to reply to a few of your statements-

“Notice how long each chapter is… We have much to say.”
‘Christianity—Was Jesus the Way to God?’ gets 26 pages !!! Wow !!!
I’m sure Jesus Himself would be impressed !!! 26 pages !!!

“These are confirmed answers from the sources.”
WHAT sources ? Do you have a direct line to THE source ? The RCC does !!!

“True Christians are commanded to shun such apostates.”
Really ?? HOW Can you who deny that Christ is God, say that ???
Does that have somethig to do with JWs shunning other JWs, or what ?
Do some of you JWs actually believe the words of our Lord, that He IS GOD ?

As for the last statement in your post, I’d like to see your direct answers to some RC literature, that will be an all-time first for me, because I have never had that experience with any JW at my door. Never.
 
Bob4BVM said:
QUOTE FROM DJDAVE------------------
I truly understand how you could feel that way. But we must be careful that what WE think does not eclipse what Jehovah has warned us about. Can you for example picture God allowing us to “make a wish” on blowing out candles? Compare Isa. 65:11

It may seem innocent but what are we teaching our children? Luke 16:10

In the first two of the Ten Commandments given through Moses, God said: “I am Jehovah your God . . . You must never have any other gods against my face . . . because I Jehovah your God am a God exacting exclusive devotion.” (Deuteronomy 5:6-9) This expression has reference to the fact that Jehovah does not tolerate any rivalry, the worship of any other gods. The Hebrew word qan·na’′ is used only of God; it means “exacting exclusive devotion; jealous.”—Ex 20:5]

Even the suggestion of false worship would not be tolerated, as was seen time and again in God’s dealings with the nation of Israel.

For example, while Moses was yet on Mount Sinai where he received those commandments on two stone tablets, the Israelites began to mix symbols of Egyptian religion with their worship of Jehovah. After collecting gold earrings from the people, a molten statue of a calf was made. Then came the proclamation: “This is your God, O Israel, who led you up out of the land of Egypt.” The Bible account tells us: “Finally Aaron [Moses’ brother] called out and said: ‘There is a festival to Jehovah tomorrow.’ So on the next day they were early in rising, and they began offering up burnt offerings and presenting communion sacrifices. After that the people sat down to eat and drink. Then they got up to have a good time.”—Exodus 32:1-6.

The Israelites were professing to worship the true God. Remember, it was called “a festival to Jehovah.” They intended to associate Jehovah with the image. Yet, they were frolicking at a festival that mimicked an Egyptian deity, perhaps Apis, who was represented as a young bull. Was God pleased? Not at all. He nearly brought the nation to ruin on account of it!—Exodus 32:7-10. Compare 1 Cor 10:11

Similarly, God expects Christians to keep their worship pure and untainted, having nothing to do with customs, symbols, or festivals associated with false gods.

. . . The custom of lighted candles on the cakes started with the Greeks. . . . Honey cakes round as the moon and lit with tapers were placed on the temple altars of [Artemis]. . . . Birthday candles, in folk belief, are endowed with special magic for granting wishes. . . . Lighted tapers and sacrificial fires have had a special mystic significance ever since man first set up altars to his gods. The birthday candles are thus an honor and tribute to the birthday child and bring good fortune. . . . Birthday greetings and wishes for happiness are an intrinsic part of this holiday. . . . Originally the idea was rooted in magic. . . . Birthday greetings have power for good or ill because one is closer to the spirit world on this day.”—**The Lore of Birthdays **(New

Eccl. 3:12,13: “There is nothing better for them than to rejoice and to do good during one’s life; and also that every man should eat and indeed drink and see good for all his hard work. It is the gift of God.”
See also 1 Corinthians 10:31.
…But we must avoid “unclean” seemingly insignificant small things when it involves our worship of God,
AND then there is this…Ecclesiastes 7:1…
Question for you: What do you think Soloman was saying?
END QUOTE----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Dave,
What you wrote here reveals a significant difference between us, and i am guessing between JWs & RCs, and probably between JWs and many protestant Christians as well.
In my Faith, there is little separation between what I do in worship and during the rest of my time, because I know that Christ is with me all the time. He shares my entire life, like a good friend or the closest family member. As a matter of fact Jesus Christ is closer to me than all others because He knows my heart better than anyone. He has requested that I include Him in my everyday life as a true friend, not just during the times I ‘formally’ worship Him. I have accepted that request. HE is PRESENT by invitation at all I do. Therefore He brings His grace into everything I invite Him to share with me. When I invite Him to be present, the very possibility of evil is banished. When done for His glory, all is joy and grace.
Therefore I needn’t worry about what some magician did with a particular practice in some cult, ancient or modern. I am FREED from that kind of worrisome burden.
In Christ, all is joy. Including birthday parties.
Don’t you see, He rejoices with us whenever we shower love on those around us. That was a big reason He came, to teach us that. When we are perfect , we will do it as well as HE did !
I try to take this challenge of His seriously every day of my life------> Jn 15:12: "This is my commandment: love one another as I have loved you. "

As for Eccl 7:1…
yes, there is value in facing suffering, and certainly there is incredible beauty in death, when you trust Christ in His promise to take you home with Him to His Father’s house.

But remember that Jesus came here that we may have life, to the fullest. He does not want us to mope about in sorrow, but to live each moment to the fullest, whether that is a moment of joy OR a moment of sorrow. It is all due to His creating us, we are to drink deeply of life whatever the situation. That is part and parcel of the New Covenant He made with us, which replaces the Old Covenant you keep referring to.
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Well Dave, what do you say ? Can you see the difference here ?
 
adelore said:
A nice lady, who is a Jehovah Witness stopped by my house, she came in and we started talking about the Bible. As we talked I asked her about their form of Baptisum. I asked her if they Baptised in the Name of the Father, The Son, and the Holy Spirit as they imersed the person and they came up out of the water.

I was floored when she told me, well not really. She said the Words are not said over the person, but yet the person, knows, that’s what they are doing, that since there are so many being baptised at once that they are told “A head” of time that this is what it means.

We then looked up in “their” bible, the words where Jesus said to baptise in the Name of the Father, The Son and the Holy Spirit. She then even read this out loud, then said to me, well he (Jesus) really didn’t mean it that way.

She explained to me that just putting someone under the water was a “profession of faith” and that’s all it ment.

It didn’t surprise me at all that even though “their” bible says what Jesus says, it was “over looked”. I know that several of the JW’s refuse to even take a good look at their own “Religion” and their errors.

I did sugget to her a couple of things…(she’s very hard headed.)
  1. Do a search on the Bible…how it came together ect.
  2. Do a search on the background of her own church…(all the differnt things they’ve believed over the years and how they’ve changed their “format of beliefs”.
  3. I also suggested, that if she wants people to “listen” to her, then she needs to respect “others” and be a good listener back. (as she would always interrupt me when I was talking and wanting to share my thoughts.)
Of course she wants to do a Bible Study. I highly doubt she’ll be back as I offered to do a “Catholic Bible Study” with her too.

Just thought I’d share this.
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JWs try to get as much out of you as they can if they can ‘smell’ a convert to their own sect. If they cannot make headway, they won’t be around anymore. I made the mistake of having them come in one day to discuss the Bible. The fact is, they don’t know much about it and sometimes get very defensive. When they come to the door now, I usually don’t answer it or I will say something to the affect that I am happy in the Christian religion I presently profess.
 
adelore:

JWs are brainwashed and programmed not to accept or read anything outside of what is provided them. Also to not question any directive from the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society ( Their official name ). Since they are taught that the WBTS is God’s mouthpiece, to question, or refuse to follow, the directive is the same as confronting God. This can result in disfellowshipping ( shunning by all ) and leaving them all alone with no one to turn to. Separation from the WTBS is, to the JW, the same as being condemned to hell. So, don’t expect much, if any, co-operation from a JW ( they hear you, but do not listen ).

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
 
dj Dave,
  1. I’m just wondering where did the JW’s get their Bible from? Since it’s missing 7 books, in the Old Testament, (by the way even the 1611 (I believe was the year) King James was first written with all the same books that the Catholic Bible has in it today.
I believe the JW’s Bible is just a “re-write” of the King James Bible of today. Please correct me if I’m wrong and by all means I’d love to see the proof and what the names of the transcriptors are.
  1. Could you also explain to me how Jesus spread the “Good News”? Was it written or by Oral teaching?
  2. If people in the New Testament all had to be baptizied by Imersion, then how did they do this if they lived in the Dessert?
  3. The Bible says that “whole households” were baptized. Now a whole household can mean anyone from a baby, children, adults and even servents.
Again this is not to cause a debate.
  • Just a footnote. 🤷 I’ve been up for almost 24 hrs working…so words could be spelled wrong…the brain and the fingers might not be moving well together…🙂
 
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adelore said:
dj Dave,
  1. I’m just wondering where did the JW’s get their Bible from? Since it’s missing 7 books, in the Old Testament, (by the way even the 1611 (I believe was the year) King James was first written with all the same books that the Catholic Bible has in it today.
I believe the JW’s Bible is just a “re-write” of the King James Bible of today. Please correct me if I’m wrong and by all means I’d love to see the proof and what the names of the transcriptors are.
  1. Could you also explain to me how Jesus spread the “Good News”? Was it written or by Oral teaching?
  2. If people in the New Testament all had to be baptizied by Imersion, then how did they do this if they lived in the Dessert?
  3. The Bible says that “whole households” were baptized. Now a whole household can mean anyone from a baby, children, adults and even servents.
Again this is not to cause a debate.
  • Just a footnote. 🤷 I’ve been up for almost 24 hrs working…so words could be spelled wrong…the brain and the fingers might not be moving well together…🙂
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[/SIGN]

I am very busy right now, I will ne happy to answer all of your questions along with Bob’ s too. Soon.
 
dj_dave said:
[SIGN][/SIGN]

I am very busy right now, I will ne happy to answer all of your questions along with Bob’ s too. Soon.
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Don’t hold your breath, people. This is a typical ploy when they run out of scripture to refer to or cannot answer questions. “We’ll check on it and get back to you”. All cults do the same thing when confronted with the REAL truth.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
 
Javl said:
Don’t hold your breath, people. This is a typical ploy when they run out of scripture to refer to or cannot answer questions. “We’ll check on it and get back to you”. All cults do the same thing when confronted with the REAL truth.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
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Now…now…he said he was busy and would get back to our questions soon. After all I did ask a lot of questions…so patience…is called for here.

To help things along…

**2. ** Although Jesus did read from the Scrolls, He very much taught by **"**Oral" teaching. ** and Tradition. ** Otherwise, how would the Word of God been spread thoughout the land? There are many examples of this in the Bible, Jesus “Speaking” to the crowds. The 12 Apostles did the same thing, for it was years before the New Testament ever hit a printing press to form all of the New Testament…

"Reasoning From the Scriptures" is a book put out by Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania.

1. The New World Translation was originally released in sections, from 1950 to 1960. As a basis for translating the Hewbrew Scriptures, the text of Rudolf Kittle’s Biblia Hebraica, editions of 1951-1955, was used. ……(more information about this in the Reasoning from the Scriptures pg. 276-277. )

Who were the Translators? There names have been kept anonymous. Since the translators have chosen to reamain anonymous, the question cannot here be answered in terms of their educational background. (From pg. 277 Reasoning from the Scriptures.)

Now my own thought is this…I really want to know who the Translator’s names are, why be anonymous? How do I know if they are even educated enough to do such a job as translating the Bible. The NWT, doesn’t even say how many people Translated it. So therefore it is Very Possible it could be only two or three people?

In my “The New Catholic Answer Bible” all the names of the Translator’s are listed…(well over 45 people) I repeat that Over 45 people, I stopped counting at 45. Therefore I could (if I wanted to) look up their names, find out there educational background to see if they were Truely educated to do this work.

With that being said I feel much better reading a Bible that truely has that many people working on a single translation. Think about this, there had to be the “Holy Spirit” working with that many people to get them all to agree on the Word of God.

Just my thoughts…and something to ponder, if no one has ever put much thought to this important topic.

Ok dj dave…I just thought I’d help out with a couple of the questions I asked. Again, this is not to cause a debate, but to “share” information.
 
adelore said:
Now…now…he said he was busy and would get back to our questions soon. After all I did ask a lot of questions…so patience…is called for here.

To help things along…

**2. ** Although Jesus did read from the Scrolls, He very much taught by **"**Oral" teaching. **** and Tradition. Otherwise, how would the Word of God been spread thoughout the land? There are many examples of this in the Bible, Jesus “Speaking” to the crowds. The 12 Apostles did the same thing, for it was years before the New Testament ever hit a printing press to form all of the New Testament…

"Reasoning From the Scriptures" is a book put out by Watch Tower Bible and Tract Society of Pennsylvania.

1. The New World Translation was originally released in sections, from 1950 to 1960. As a basis for translating the Hewbrew Scriptures, the text of Rudolf Kittle’s Biblia Hebraica, editions of 1951-1955, was used. ……(more information about this in the Reasoning from the Scriptures pg. 276-277. )

Who were the Translators? There names have been kept anonymous. Since the translators have chosen to reamain anonymous, the question cannot here be answered in terms of their educational background. (From pg. 277 Reasoning from the Scriptures.)

Now my own thought is this…I really want to know who the Translator’s names are, why be anonymous? How do I know if they are even educated enough to do such a job as translating the Bible. The NWT, doesn’t even say how many people Translated it. So therefore it is Very Possible it could be only two or three people?

In my “The New Catholic Answer Bible” all the names of the Translator’s are listed…(well over 45 people) I repeat that Over 45 people, I stopped counting at 45. Therefore I could (if I wanted to) look up their names, find out there educational background to see if they were Truely educated to do this work.

With that being said I feel much better reading a Bible that truely has that many people working on a single translation. Think about this, there had to be the “Holy Spirit” working with that many people to get them all to agree on the Word of God.

Just my thoughts…and something to ponder, if no one has ever put much thought to this important topic.

Ok dj dave…I just thought I’d help out with a couple of the questions I asked. Again, this is not to cause a debate, but to “share” information.
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I’ve had well over thirty years of witnessing and dealings with the JWs. I have studied with them. So, I do know their every “tricks of the trade”. At present there is either a regrouping, or replacement.

PAX DOMINI :signofcross:

Shalom Aleichem
 
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