JW's and CHRIST'S RESURRECTION

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Prior to Jesus’ birth on earth, angels had appeared on this planet in human form, apparently materializing suitable bodies for the occasion, then dematerializing them after completing such assignments. (Ge 19:1-3; Jg 6:20-22; 13:15-20) They thus remained spirit creatures, merely employing a physical body temporarily. This, however, was not the case with the coming of God’s Son to earth to become the man Jesus. John 1:14 says that “the Word became flesh and resided among us.” For that reason he could call himself “the Son of man.” (Joh 1:51; 3:14,*15) Some draw attention to the expression “resided [literally, “tented”] among us” and claim this shows Jesus was, not a true human, but an incarnation. However, the apostle Peter uses a similar expression about himself, and Peter was obviously not an incarnation.—2Pe 1:13,*14.

The inspired Record says: “But the birth of Jesus Christ was in this way. During the time his mother Mary was promised in marriage to Joseph, she was found to be pregnant by holy spirit before they were united.” (Mt 1:18) Prior to this, Jehovah’s angelic messenger had informed the virgin girl Mary that she would ‘conceive in her womb’ as the result of God’s holy spirit coming upon her and His power overshadowing her. (Lu 1:30, 31, 34,*35) Since actual conception took place, it appears that Jehovah God caused an ovum, or egg cell, in Mary’s womb to become fertile, accomplishing this by the transferal of the life of his firstborn Son from the spirit realm to earth. (Ga 4:4) Only in this way could the child eventually born have retained identity as the same person who had resided in heaven as the Word, and only in this way could he have been an actual son of Mary and hence a genuine descendant of her forefathers Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Judah, and King David and legitimate heir of the divine promises made to them. (Ge 22:15-18; 26:24; 28:10-14; 49:10; 2Sa 7:8, 11-16; Lu 3:23-34.) It is likely, therefore, that the child born resembled its Jewish mother in certain physical characteristics.
 
Was Jesus a God/Man?

No, this is an embellishment of the simple Bible account.

Religions that teach the Trinity believe that on earth Jesus had the two natures in himself. But the Bible does not support such an idea. The apostle Paul says about Jesus: “Since all the children share the same blood and flesh, he too shared equally in it, ... It was essential that he should in this way become completely like his brothers.” (Hebrews 2:14, 17, Jerusalem Bible) How could he be “completely like his brothers” if he were a God/man? Paul wrote to the Philippians of “Christ Jesus, who, although he was existing in God’s form, ... emptied himself and took a slave’s form and came to be in the likeness of men.” (Philippians 2:5-7) So this heavenly Son of God divested himself completely of “God’s form” to take on human nature, to become a man.
 
The expression God-Man is an invention of trinitarians and is found nowhere in the entire Bible. What the Word called himself when on earth was “the Son of man,” something very different from God-Man. When he first met the Jew named Nathanael, he said to this Jew: “You will see heaven opened up and the angels of God ascending and descending to the Son of man.” (John 1:51) To the Jewish Pharisee Nicodemus he said: “Just as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, so the Son of man must be lifted up, that everyone believing in him may have everlasting life.” (John 3:14, 15) In John’s writings the expression “Son of man” is applied to the Word sixteen times. This indicates that it was by a human birth on earth that he “became flesh.” His becoming flesh meant nothing less than that he ceased to be a spirit person.

By becoming flesh the Word, who was formerly an invisible spirit, became visible, hearable, feelable to men on earth. Men of flesh could thus have direct contact with him. The apostle John reports to us his own experience with the Word when he existed in the flesh, that John might share that blessing with us. John says:

“That which was from the beginning, which we have heard, which we have seen with our eyes, which we have viewed attentively and our hands felt, concerning the word of life, (yes, the life was made manifest, and we have seen and are bearing witness and reporting to you the everlasting life which was with the Father and was made manifest to us,) that which we have seen and heard we are reporting also to you, that you too may be having a sharing with us. Furthermore, this sharing of ours is with the Father and with his Son Jesus Christ.”—1*John 1:1-3.
 
Just as the Bible clearly shows that Jesus Christ had a prehuman existence as a glorious spirit, so it is equally unambiguous as to Jesus Christ as being wholly a human from his birth until his resurrection from the dead. Thus the apostle John tells us that “the Word became flesh.” Not part flesh and part God, not merely clothed with flesh, but became or now was flesh. Likewise the apostle Paul testifies that “God sent forth his Son, born of woman, born under the law.” If he had been part God and part human it could not have been said that he had been “made lower than the angels.” And the apostle Peter states that “Christ also died for sins once for all, ... being put to death in the flesh but made alive in the spirit.”—John 1:14; Gal. 4:4; Heb. 2:9; 1*Pet. 3:18.

If Jesus Christ had been both God and man at the same time, would it have been necessary for him to pray to God for help, as he repeatedly did? “Father, all things are possible to thee; remove this cup from me; yet not what I will, but what thou wilt.” “In the days of his flesh, Jesus offered up prayers and supplications, with loud cries and tears, to him who was able to save him from death, and he was heard for his godly fear. Although he was a Son, he learned obedience through what he suffered; and being made perfect he became the source of eternal salvation to all who obey him.”—Mark 14:36; Heb. 5:7-9.

If Jesus had been both God and man while on earth, how could he have been tested as are human creatures? Yet this he was. “For we have not a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sinning.” Only because he was truly human could he experience what humans experience and so become a sympathetic high priest.—Heb. 4:15.

Nor is that all. Jesus came as “the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!” To this end he “gave himself as a ransom,” that is, a corresponding price, to redeem, to buy back what Adam had lost for the human race. Adam was not a God-man, he was not an incarnation. God’s justice required “life for life,” and so we read that “as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.”—John 1:29; 1Tim. 2:6; Deut. 19:21; 1Cor. 15:22.
 
I thought the previous explanation about Jesus taking his “glorified blood” with him up in to heaven was humorous…. It ignores what John 19:34 says about Jesus’ blood being poured out when he died and what 1 Cor 15:50 says about flesh and blood not inheriting God’s Kingdom… Who knows… maybe there’s some story about 1 Cor 15:50 only apply to “normal” blood and not “glorified blood”?

All these explanations get weirder and weirder when one ignores what the Bible say about Jesus being “flesh” … making up terms like “God/Man”, “glorified blood” and “Incarnation… and then calling him “God the Son” (which is never used in the Bible) instead of “The Son of God”

Here’s what the Bible really says:

The arrangement that God set up for man’s atonement through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ is called “the greater and more perfect tent not made with hands.” Christ entered “once for all time into the holy place” of this great spiritual temple “and obtained an everlasting deliverance for us,” writes the apostle Paul. (Heb 9:11, 12) On going into heaven and appearing before Jehovah, Christ entered into what was pictured by the innermost compartment of the tabernacle, namely, the Most Holy. (Heb 9:24, 25) Thus the tabernacle and its services served as “a typical representation and a shadow of the heavenly things.”—Heb 8:5.

Jesus Christ as the real High Priest entered into heaven itself, not with his blood, which was poured out on the ground (Joh 19:34), but with the value of his perfect human life as represented by blood. This life right he never forfeited by sin, but he retained it as usable for sin atonement. (Heb 7:26; 8:3; 9:11, 12)

Christ could not take his literal blood into heaven. (1 Corinthians 15:50) Rather, he took what that blood symbolized: the legal value of his sacrificed perfect human life. Before the person of God, he could make formal presentation of that life as a ransom in exchange for sinful mankind. Jehovah’s acceptance of that sacrifice became evident at Pentecost 33 C.E., when the holy spirit came upon 120 disciples in Jerusalem. (Acts 2:1-4) Christ, as it were, now owned the human race by purchase. (Galatians 3:13; 4:5; 2 Peter 2:1) Hence, ransom benefits could flow to mankind.
 
More nonsensical doctrines from a heresy that didn’t even exist as a heretical movement in early Christianity !!!
What BibleSteve ridicules are the doctrines held by the early Christians in the early churches established and preached-to by the apostles for decades and decades, all over the ancient Roman Empire, down into Africa, and all the way to Southern India.

The JW doctrines Steve has enunciated above are interpretations unheard-of in the Early Christian Church. Not even the Arians held such views. And Hebrews 9 explicitly states that Jesus entered into the heavenly holy place WITH HIS OWN BLOOD.

The JWs misinterpret what is meant by spiritual body in Coriinthians, and then, like typical Johnny-Come-Latelies,
have the audacity to say that the whole Christian Church has been wrong for 2,000 years. This is tantamount, in principle,
to blaspheming the Holy Spirit who guided the Church into all Truth from 33 A.D. right down to the present. I do not, however, say that Steve is guilty of that sin, I’m talking about principles.

It’s like putting a book on advanced physics into the hand of a 4 year old and asking them to properly understand it.

Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+
 
5 posts in a row of cut and paste?😦
I hope its not cut and paste anyway.
 
Of equal importance in considering the veracity & accuracy of the
Watchtower Society’s interpretations
is to CONSIDER THEIR SOURCE ---- with WHOM did they originate?

The doctrine that Jesus was resurrected as a pure spirit
originated in the mind of CHARLES TAZE RUSSELL.
Mr. Russell claimed to be, and allowed others to claim him
to be, THE LAODICEAN MESSENGER. This title is ON HIS TOMBSTONE in Rosemont Cemetery in Allegheny, PA.
Russell held to a form of dispensationalism in which the man
called The Laodicean Messenger was said to be God’s Final
Prophet to the Christian Church. Russell was by biblical standards a False Prophet. He not only prophesied falsely in terms of future predictions, but also with regard to then-current
statements. For example, he taught that Christ’s Invisible Presence Began in 1874. Today’s WTS claims that the Invisible Presence of Christ began in 1914.
Russell also, verbally and in print, taught that the Battle of Armageddon would definitely occur in 1914. Didn’t happen.
According to the Word of God, we are to have NOTHING TO DO with such a man or anything he says. He was prophesying falsely when he came up with the pure-spirit resurrection of Jesus doctrine.

The interpretation of the 144,000 being a literal number of Christians who alone are born-again and who alone will live in heaven as pure-spirits, originated in the mind of Joseph Franklin Rutherford, who took over control of the Watchtower Society when Russell died. Rutherford, too, was by biblical standards
a False Prophet. Under his leadership, the Society published in 1918 a book called THE FINISHED MYSTERY which directly predicted “Worldwide, All-Embracing Anarchy in the Fall of 1920” which didn’t come to pass either. Mr. Rutherford also taught verbally and in print (food at the proper time from God’s channel of communication) that the Old Testament Saints would be resurreected to Life on Earth in the year 1925. This did not come to pass either, even though “The Society” built a mansion for the Old Testament heroes in San Diego, California called “Beth Sarim,” and Rutherford lived in that mansion, with it’s two gorgeous Cadillacs, until his death in the 1940s.

The doctrines unique to the Jehovah’s Witnesses
originated in the minds of men who, according to the biblical criteria, were False Prophets whom people who love God must
never pay attention to. That alone tells us their value.

Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+
 
Taking all this in InJesus?

Where are you? Come out come out and play with us.

I still contend there is no ressurection happening here. Maybe I am slow, or daft, but it seems its a re-creation. Of Jesus, who was never created.

Confusing.
 
More funny stuff…

I point out scripture after scripture that show…
  • No mention of God/Man in the Bible
  • Jesus is specifically called flesh, just like us… not God/Man
  • No mention of Incarnation
  • No flesh or blood in heaven
  • Jesus blood poured out at this death
  • The body that is resurrected is not physical
  • Jesus never is called “God The Son”…
    -etc.
    -etc…
And all that comes back are personal attacks on Russell, Rutherford, and the WTS? Oh… and everyone can see that all these attacks were totally off topic for this thread…

Read your Bible… don’t add all this embellishment into what it says…
 
BibleSteve said:
More funny stuff…

I point out scripture after scripture that show…
  • No mention of God/Man in the Bible
  • Jesus is specifically called flesh, just like us… not God/Man
  • No mention of Incarnation
  • No flesh or blood in heaven
  • Jesus blood poured out at this death
  • The body that is resurrected is not physical
  • Jesus never is called “God The Son”…
    -etc.
    -etc…
And all that comes back are personal attacks on Russell, Rutherford, and the WTS? Oh… and everyone can see that all these attacks were totally off topic for this thread…

Read your Bible… don’t add all this embellishment into what it says…
Click to expand...
Romans 14:5-11

Tell me about birthdays again?
 
The reason why so many get confused about the resurrection of Jesus is because they really don’t understand the condition of the dead, and the real purpose of Jesus resurrection… they confused themselve with words and ideas that aren’t in the Bible…(Incarnation, God/Man, glorified blood, etc.)

YHWH did not create humans to go to heaven after they died. It was not his original purpose that they should die at all. Adam and Eve were created perfect and were given the opportunity to fill the earth with righteous offspring. (Genesis 1:28; Deuteronomy 32:4)
Our first parents were told that they would die only if they disobeyed God. (Genesis 2:17) If they had remained obedient to their heavenly Father, they would have kept on living on earth forever.

Sadly, though, Adam and Eve failed to obey God. (Genesis 3:6, 7) The tragic consequences are described by the apostle Paul:
“Through one man sin entered into the world and death through sin, and thus death spread to all men because they had all sinned.” (Romans 5:12)

Instead of living forever on earth, Adam and Eve died. What happened then? Did they have immortal souls that could now be consigned to a fiery hell because of their sin? On the contrary, the Bible says that earlier, when he was created, Adam “came to be a living soul.” (Genesis 2:7)

Man was not given a soul; he became a soul, a living person. (1 Corinthians 15:45) Why, not only was Adam “a living soul” but, as shown in the Hebrew language in which Genesis was written, the lower animals were “living souls” too! (Genesis 1:24)

When Adam and Eve died, they became dead souls. Eventually, it happened to them just as YHWH had said to Adam: “In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.”—Genesis 3:19.

In substance, the New Catholic Encyclopedia agrees with this. In its article “Soul (in the Bible),” it says: “There is no dichotomy [division into two parts] of body and soul in the OT “Old Testament,” or Hebrew Scriptures].”

It adds that in the Bible, the word “soul” “never means soul as distinct from the body or the individual person.” Indeed, soul often “means the individual being itself whether of animals or men.” Such candor is refreshing, but one can only wonder why churchgoers in general have not been made aware of these facts.

How much concern and fear churchgoers would have been spared if they had known the simple Bible truth: “The soul that is sinning—it itself will die,” not suffer in hellfire! (Ezekiel 18:4)
While this is very different from what Christendom teaches, it is entirely consistent with what the wise man Solomon said under inspiration: “The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages [in this life], because the remembrance of them has been forgotten. All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheol [mankind’s common grave], the place to which you are going.”—Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10.

Why does Christendom teach something so different from what the Bible says? The New Catholic Encyclopedia, in its article “Soul, Human, Immortality Of,” says that early Church Fathers found support for belief in an immortal soul, not in the Bible, but in “the poets and philosophers and general tradition of Greek thought . . .

Later, the scholastics preferred to make use of Plato or principles from Aristotle.” It states that “the influence of Platonic and Neoplatonic thought”—including belief in the immortal soul—eventually was inserted “into the very core of Christian theology.”
 
Steve acts as a typical thoroughly-indoctrinated Organization Man.

He quotes scripture after misinterpreted scripture to prove his
organization’s novel views which were never held by anybody in the early church and therefore could not be the interpretations taught to the entire early church by the apostles.

And he totally avoids and cavalierly dismisses as unimportant the fact that the novel intepretations of scripture held by the JWs
originated in the minds of False Prophets who are accursed by God for being False Prophets.

Jesus is God: John 1, John 8:58, etc etc.
God cannot go out of existence, yet God the Son of God
became man in the womb of Mary (Luke chapters 1 and 2, cf John chapter 1, hence the God/Man).

Hebrews 9:12 tells us explicitly that Jesus took his own blood into the heavenly holy of holies. Never mind that, says BibleSteve, cuz it contradicts his misunderstanding of the “spiritual body” spoken of in Corinthians.

Scripture NOWHERE identifies Jesus as Michael.

John 1 would have been a golden opportunity for the Apostle, writing between 70 and 90 A.D. when history proves there were tons of “Jesus-is-God” folks running around in the church, to tell all Christians “In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was the Archangel Michael,” but he did not, he said, “and the word was God.”

The WTS and WTS doctrine originated in the minds of False Prophets.

You can be sure that if CATHOLIC dogma had originated in the minds of individuals who prophesied falsely, BibleSteve would trumpet that fact to the World. But since JW dogma DID originate in the minds of false prophets, he whines about ad hominem attacks. Truly sad.

Jaypeeto4
+JMJ+
 
Why did Thomas say, My Lord and My God?

Jesus really slipped up on that one!

He ought to have corrected Thomas, and fast!
 
Hellisreal said:
Taking all this in InJesus?

Where are you? Come out come out and play with us.

I still contend there is no ressurection happening here. Maybe I am slow, or daft, but it seems its a re-creation. Of Jesus, who was never created.

Confusing.
Click to expand...
what can one respond to? i was reading with an open mouth , not believing my eyes! it’s a total gymnastics of concepts and words… i knew next to nothing about JW, but now i understand it;s a totally different religion that originated who knows when…
 
inJESUS said:
very similar to what Muslims believe in. Is it a Gnostic teaching or what?
Click to expand...
Muslims, at least revere Mary. I have seen no such thing in any JW literature I have ever read.

Muslims range in thought about what happened at the crucifixion.

The JW’s are constant, in that their version of the crucifixion as far as I am aware has been constant. (not their other doctrines, which have changed many times)

In regard to your question, you may want to ask how their memorial service goes.

And, its not Gnostic its not Arian, its not like any other heresy.

Its an american invention birthed at the time secret societies popped up all over the place.
 
inJESUS said:
what can one respond to? i was reading with an open mouth , not believing my eyes! it’s a total gymnastics of concepts and words… i knew next to nothing about JW, but now i understand it;s a totally different religion that originated who knows when…
Click to expand...
Your knowledge of Muslims will be of great benefit to all here. I firmly believe the Holy Spirit brought you here to witness to the JW’s.
I have seen your posts defending Jesus Christ with the Muslims, and believe it or not, many of the things you already know about them, will come in handy here.👍
 
By the way bible steve, In Jesus knows Arabic.
And, he is very well versed in attacks on Jesus Christ.

Bible Steve, what was Jesus charged with?

What got the Jewish leaders upset?
 
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