Ka'aba

[Epistemes]

If the Ka’aba was built by Abraham and Ismael, and was regarded as a place of worship even in pre-Islamic times, then how come Moses nor any of the prophets mention it prior to Muhammed in any of the prophetic literature??

I’m confused by this aspect.

 

[meedo]

Hello,

The Kaba and the Valley of Mecca is subtly revealed in the Old testament. But as there are two holy places on earth the Israelites were first assigned to Palestine. In Gods plan there were already people whom he intend to send a messenger to whom wre not Israelites and already live in Mecca . He assigned the Isralites to be his messengers in the area of palestine.

But to give you an insight , if you can imagine palestine before Moses was not mentioned to be a destination to build a temple at all. Even prophets befroe such as Noah have no mention of Palestine in their history. The reason is simple. God gives seperate tests and tasks to different groups.

Give me some time and i will mention for you the places were the Mecca is mentioned.

salam for now

meedo

 

[Melchior]

Hello,

The Kaba and the Valley of Mecca is subtly revealed in the Old testament. But as there are two holy places on earth the Israelites were first assigned to Palestine. In Gods plan there were already people whom he intend to send a messenger to whom wre not Israelites and already live in Mecca . He assigned the Isralites to be his messengers in the area of palestine.

But to give you an insight , if you can imagine palestine before Moses was not mentioned to be a destination to build a temple at all. Even prophets befroe such as Noah have no mention of Palestine in their history. The reason is simple. God gives seperate tests and tasks to different groups.

Give me some time and i will mention for you the places were the Mecca is mentioned.

salam for now

meedo

Not to nit pick, but it’s “Israel” not “Palestine”. The word Palestine was assigned to the Roman Province of Judea (Israel to the natives) around 100 AD to mock the Jews as the Philistines were their ancient enemy. I am not referring to the current Palestinian regions of course, I am just differentiating that there was no ancient place called “Palestine” prior to 100 AD. It was Israel up until then.

Back to your regularly scheduled topic.

 

[meedo]

If the Ka’aba was built by Abraham and Ismael, and was regarded as a place of worship even in pre-Islamic times, then how come Moses nor any of the prophets mention it prior to Muhammed in any of the prophetic literature??

I’m confused by this aspect.

Well here below is where the reference to teh land of Arabia and later Mecca is mentioned .

Let us look at the following Verses: "Then God opened her [Hagar] eyes and she saw a well of water. So she went and filled the skin with water and gave the boy a drink. God was with the boy as he grew up. He lived in the desert and became an archer. While he was living in the Desert of Paran, his mother got a wife for him from Egypt. At that time Abimelech and Phicol the commander of his forces said to Abraham, “God is with you in everything you do. (From the NIV Bible, Genesis 21:19-22)”

Then GOD Almighty promised Ishmael that from him, He will increase his numbers and make from him a great nation, the Arab nation; “And as for Ishmael, I have heard you: I will surely bless him; I will make him fruitful and will greatly increase his numbers. He will be the father of twelve rulers, and I will make him into a great nation. (From the NIV Bible, Genesis 17:20)”

The Bible clearly says that Paran is south of Sinai in Egypt; “He said: ‘The LORD came from Sinai and dawned over them from Seir; he shone forth from Mount Paran. He came with myriads of holy ones from the south, from his mountain slopes.’ (From the NIV Bible, Deuteronomy 33:2)”

Kedar came from Ishmael; “These are the names of the sons of Ishmael, listed in the order of their birth: Nebaioth the firstborn of Ishmael, Kedar, Adbeel, Mibsam, and Mishma, and Dumah, and Massa, Hadar, and Tema, Jetur, Naphish, and Kedemah: These are the sons of Ishmael, and these are their names, by their towns, and by their castles; twelve princes according to their nations. Kedar and Ancient Arabs (From the NIV Bible, Genesis 25:13)” The Arabian desert region was named after Kedar. See the second map below.

The Ishmaelites were Arabs and not Egyptians. They came from the Arabian desert; "As they sat down to eat their meal, they looked up and saw a caravan of Ishmaelites coming from Gilead. Their camels were loaded with spices, balm and myrrh, and they were on their way to take them down to Egypt. (From the NIV Bible, Genesis 37:25)

The point however in the above Verse is that the Ishmaelites were not from Egypt. They came from another land. They had loaded camels and they were heading to Egypt. Arabs used to rely heavily on camels for traveling. And as we’ve seen from the above Verses regarding Ishmael and his Mother (Hagar) living in the desert of Paran in the South, this clearly proves to us that the desert of Paran is located in Arabia and not in Egypt, since the Ishmaelites are not Egyptians.

cont…

 

[meedo]

cont.

Mecca, Bacca and Paran:

Let me paste for you the following Verses from the Bible and the Noble Quran:

“Blessed is the man whose strength is in thee; in whose heart are the ways of them. Who passing through the valley of Baca make it a well; the rain also filleth the pools. (From the NIV Bible, Psalms 84:5-6)”

“The first House (of worship) appointed for men was that at Bakka full of blessing and of guidance for all kinds of beings: In it are signs manifest; (for example) the Station of Abraham; whoever enters it attains security; pilgrimage thereto is a duty men owe to Allah those who can afford the journey; but if any deny faith Allah stands not in need of any of his creatures. (The Noble Quran, 3:96-97)”

“And God heard the voice of the lad; and the angel of God called Hagar out of heaven, and said unto her, What aileth thee, Hagar? fear not; for God hath heard the voice of the lad where he is. Arise, lift up the lad, and hold him in thine hand; for I will make him a great nation. And God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water; and she went, and filled the bottle with water, and gave the lad drink. And God was with the lad; and he grew, and dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer. And he dwelt in the wilderness of Paran: and his mother took him a wife out of the land of Egypt. (From the NIV Bible, Genesis 21:17-21)”

Now ishmael never lived in Sinai. Nor in Sinai were the 12 tribes of the arabs. ’

The reference to Sinai Seir and Paran makes perfect sense of the sequences with the messeges of Moses Jesus and Muhammed . And if you read the Interpretation of the verse in jewish commentaries on the Torah indeed you will find that paran is referred to the Ishmaelites . No way Ishmaelites were in Sinai with 12 tribes. Every body knows Ishmaelites are the arabs of the arabians peninsula.

Hope i have clarified .

meedo

 

[eliasaph99]

In the interest of completeness on the legacy of Ishmael, I thought it pertinent to include these verses as well. For continuity, I have quoted from the same Bible as meedo.

Genesis 16:7-12

7 The angel of the LORD found Hagar near a spring in the desert; it was the spring that is beside the road to Shur. 8 And he said, “Hagar, servant of Sarai, where have you come from, and where are you going?”
“I’m running away from my mistress Sarai,” she answered.

9 Then the angel of the LORD told her, “Go back to your mistress and submit to her.” 10 The angel added, “I will so increase your descendants that they will be too numerous to count.”

11 The angel of the LORD also said to her:
"You are now with child
and you will have a son.
You shall name him Ishmael, [a]
for the LORD has heard of your misery.

12 He will be a wild donkey of a man;
his hand will be against everyone
and everyone’s hand against him,
and he will live in hostility
toward ** all his brothers."

Genesis 21:8-12

8 The child grew and was weaned, and on the day Isaac was weaned Abraham held a great feast. 9 But Sarah saw that the son whom Hagar the Egyptian had borne to Abraham was mocking, 10 and she said to Abraham, “Get rid of that slave woman and her son, for that slave woman’s son will never share in the inheritance with my son Isaac.”

11 The matter distressed Abraham greatly because it concerned his son. 12 But God said to him, "Do not be so distressed about the boy and your maidservant. Listen to whatever Sarah tells you, because it is through Isaac that your offspring ** will be reckoned.

The first prophecy certainly seems to be being fulfilled. I think that verse 16:12 is a rather apt description of the attitude of Muslims and how they agitate against everyone.

In the second quotation, we clearly see that Abrahams line is reckoned from Isaac, not Ishmael. So, even though Ishmael is Abrahams biological son, he is not considered his first born, nor his inheritor.****

 

[eliasaph99]

As far as Arabia being mentioned in the Bible, I would be more surprised if it weren’t. After all, the entire setting of most of the Bible is the greater Euphrates and Nile Valleys. Arabia is immediately adjacent to them.

I don’t see the fact that it is having any connection whatsoever to the Ka’aba. The Ka’aba was most likely built sometime after the life of Christ, but even if it weren’t it was a pagan temple. It had about as much chance of being mentioned in the Scriptures of the True God as a Mayan Temple.

 

[Joseph_Alison]

I am not referring to the current Palestinian regions of course, I am just differentiating that there was no ancient place called “Palestine” prior to 100 AD. It was Israel up until then.

Are you sure about this?

JER 47:1 The word of the Lord that came to Jeremias the prophet against the people of Palestine, before Pharao took Gaza.
EZEK 16:57 Before thy malice was laid open: as it is at this time, making thee a reproach of the daughters of Syria, and of all the daughters of **Palestine **round about thee, that encompass thee on all sides.

JOEL 3:4 Yea, and what have ye to do with me, O Tyre, and Zidon, and all the coasts of Palestine? will ye render me a recompence? and if ye recompense me, swiftly and speedily will I return your recompence upon your own head;

Some versions of the Bible capture it as Philistine which is the same.

Salaam.
Joseph.

 

[Angelos]

If the Ka’aba was built by Abraham and Ismael, and was regarded as a place of worship even in pre-Islamic times, then how come Moses nor any of the prophets mention it prior to Muhammed in any of the prophetic literature??

I’m confused by this aspect.

Hi epistemes

Natural for you, a Christian, to be confused because even the most devout Muslims reading the Quran have been constantly confounded by the same question.

Let me tell you one thing for sure: The Quran ascribes the construction of Kaa’ba to Abraham & Ishmael in the second chapter, which belongs to the early Madina period! Somehow Allah forgets to reveal the origin of Kaa’ba until Muhammed bin Abdallah’s flight to Madina & his constant disputes with the Jews. In short, Kaa’ba is apparently one of the several innovations in Muhammed’s Scripture, denying the traditional idea of supposed “gradual revelation”.

More to the point, Muhammed’s scribes noticed it too late that Ishmael was Abraham’s first son! This is why until late Mecca period the Quran astonishingly claims that Abraham had two sons: Isaac and Jacob, respectively!

Accordingly, the Quran knows and says absolutely nothing about Hagar (Ishmael’s mother), which proves that either Muhammed’s scribes suffered from short memory or they deliberately ignored Hagar since she reminded them of their submission to Isaac’s mother and children (Jews).

Finally, you will be disappointed if u expect Muhammed’s Scripture to contain narratives as precise and detailed as the ones in the Bible. The Quran always skips the names of many places as well as people due to the limited knowledge of its authors. Consequently, Abraham goes from the tribe of his father - no name or location given - to a nice place for the birth of his children. Then we suddenly find him in Mecca building up the Kaa’ba! Muhammed’s scribes were definitely good at beaming people!

PS: If you would like to read my article about Abraham & Ishmael in Islam, I could send it to you via e-mail.

Peace,
ANgelos N.

 

[Reuben_J]

Hello,
In Gods plan there were already people whom he intend to send a messenger to whom wre not Israelites and already live in Mecca .

I haven’t heard Muslims talking about God’s plan. Are you sure you are not influenced by Christianity theology of God’s plan of salvation?

 

[Angelos]

cont.

Mecca, Bacca and Paran:

Let me paste for you the following Verses from the Bible and the Noble Quran:

“Blessed is the man whose strength is in thee; in whose heart are the ways of them. Who passing through the valley of Baca make it a well; the rain also filleth the pools. (From the NIV Bible, Psalms 84:5-6)”

“The first House (of worship) appointed for men was that at Bakka full of blessing and of guidance for all kinds of beings: In it are signs manifest; (for example) the Station of Abraham; whoever enters it attains security; pilgrimage thereto is a duty men owe to Allah those who can afford the journey; but if any deny faith Allah stands not in need of any of his creatures. (The Noble Quran, 3:96-97)”

“And God heard the voice of the lad; and the angel of God called Hagar out of heaven, and said unto her, What aileth thee, Hagar? fear not; for God hath heard the voice of the lad where he is. Arise, lift up the lad, and hold him in thine hand; for I will make him a great nation. And God opened her eyes, and she saw a well of water; and she went, and filled the bottle with water, and gave the lad drink. And God was with the lad; and he grew, and dwelt in the wilderness, and became an archer. And he dwelt in the wilderness of Paran: and his mother took him a wife out of the land of Egypt. (From the NIV Bible, Genesis 21:17-21)”

Now ishmael never lived in Sinai. Nor in Sinai were the 12 tribes of the arabs. ’

The reference to Sinai Seir and Paran makes perfect sense of the sequences with the messeges of Moses Jesus and Muhammed . And if you read the Interpretation of the verse in jewish commentaries on the Torah indeed you will find that paran is referred to the Ishmaelites . No way Ishmaelites were in Sinai with 12 tribes. Every body knows Ishmaelites are the arabs of the arabians peninsula.

Hope i have clarified.

meedo

Hi Meedo

Sorry bro, but nothing clarified so far! What if Ishmaelites were Arabs? What if the Bible referred to Mount Paran? Where does the Bible state that Abraham went to Mecca with Ishmael? Where does the Bible state that the first temple (or sacred house) was built in Mecca or in the same place as the Ishmaelites lived? (I also see that you refer to many verses in the Bible solely because your dear Scripture fails to highlight the link between Ishmaelites and Arabs!)

More, the Psalm you quoted (84: 5-6) has nothing to do with Mecca, but with Bacca. These are apparently different names. Do you think it is honest to distort a name in the Psalms so as to accommodate the word of God to the corrupted Islamic scripture?

It is clear from the context of Psalm 84 that Bacca is the name of a place in Palestine through which Jewish pilgrims passed on their way to Jerusalem to the Temple of God.

Read the following link to be sure that the Bible does not refer to Mecca: answering-islam.org.uk/BibleCom/baca.html

I hope this will clarify a bit

Peace to you,
Angelos N.

 

[Reuben_J]

More, the Psalm you quoted (84: 5-6) has nothing to do with Mecca, but with Bacca. These are apparently different names. Do you think it is honest to distort a name in the Psalms so as to accommodate the word of God to the corrupted Islamic scripture?

It is clear from the context of Psalm 84 that Bacca is the name of a place in Palestine through which Jewish pilgrims passed on their way to Jerusalem to the Temple of God.

Read the following link to be sure that the Bible does not refer to Mecca: answering-islam.org.uk/BibleCom/baca.html

Toby Jepson writes this conclusion:

I hope that this short paper has made it clear that the Baca of the Bible cannot be the Bakkah of the Qur’an. Rather than being a justifiable theory, it seems that some people, in their zeal to verify the Qur’an by using the Bible, have jumped all too quickly to a mistaken conclusion. A few superficial similarities are offset by several clear contradictions. It is often easy to bend the facts to fit our own theories, rather than forming our theories around the facts. This is never easier than in religion. Both Christians and Muslims are open to this temptation: I hope that fair-minded people will see this as a case in point.

Muslims’ claim that Baca of Psalm 84 refers to Mecca is a recent assumption based on the similarity of the sound of the two words. Which is not similar but rather only rhyme!

The ridiculousness of this assumption does not help Islam’s cause at all in trying to connect the Bible with Quran. Usually Muslims don’t try to do that but when they do it’s utter ridiculous.

 

[inJESUS]

Epistemes, i asked the same question, and I already had this discussion with Meedo.I repeat, it is very, very strange that Abraham and Ishmael built GOD’S HOUSE yet no prophet, not even one, in the OT, or NT, or Talmud, or Jewish Tradition or Christian Tradition mention it, not even en passant ! Angelos did well by quoting answering-islam site who refuted any claim of Mecca or Medina being in the Bible.

Angelos, which Quranic verse mentions Issac and Jacob as brothers??

 

[meedo]

In the interest of completeness on the legacy of Ishmael, I thought it pertinent to include these verses as well. For continuity, I have quoted from the same Bible as meedo.

Genesis 16:7-12

7 The angel of the LORD found Hagar near a spring in the desert; it was the spring that is beside the road to Shur. 8 And he said, “Hagar, servant of Sarai, where have you come from, and where are you going?”
“I’m running away from my mistress Sarai,” she answered.

9 Then the angel of the LORD told her, “Go back to your mistress and submit to her.” 10 The angel added, “I will so increase your descendants that they will be too numerous to count.”

11 The angel of the LORD also said to her:
"You are now with child
and you will have a son.
You shall name him Ishmael, [a]
for the LORD has heard of your misery.

12 He will be a wild donkey of a man;
his hand will be against everyone
and everyone’s hand against him,
and he will live in hostility
toward ** all his brothers."

Genesis 21:8-12

8 The child grew and was weaned, and on the day Isaac was weaned Abraham held a great feast. 9 But Sarah saw that the son whom Hagar the Egyptian had borne to Abraham was mocking, 10 and she said to Abraham, “Get rid of that slave woman and her son, for that slave woman’s son will never share in the inheritance with my son Isaac.”

11 The matter distressed Abraham greatly because it concerned his son. 12 But God said to him, "Do not be so distressed about the boy and your maidservant. Listen to whatever Sarah tells you, because it is through Isaac that your offspring ** will be reckoned.

The first prophecy certainly seems to be being fulfilled. I think that verse 16:12 is a rather apt description of the attitude of Muslims and how they agitate against everyone.

In the second quotation, we clearly see that Abrahams line is reckoned from Isaac, not Ishmael. So, even though Ishmael is Abrahams biological son, he is not considered his first born, nor his inheritor.****

There is nothing called the first born son is not considered the first born even he is a son. There is nothing indicating this conclusion from the verses you quoted above.

Muslims dont agitate more than any normal people agitate. Would you care to give an example?

 

[meedo]

As far as Arabia being mentioned in the Bible, I would be more surprised if it weren’t. After all, the entire setting of most of the Bible is the greater Euphrates and Nile Valleys. Arabia is immediately adjacent to them.

I don’t see the fact that it is having any connection whatsoever to the Ka’aba. The Ka’aba was most likely built sometime after the life of Christ, but even if it weren’t it was a pagan temple. It had about as much chance of being mentioned in the Scriptures of the True God as a Mayan Temple.

I can see you have your own interpretation of things. But you didnt respond to any of what i mentioned in my answers above. Care to comment?

 

[inJESUS]

Meedo, talking about Issac, he was called Issac (= laughter) because Sara laughed after hearing that she’ll bear a son. But in Quran, Sara laughed before, why is that?

11:70 But when he saw their hands not reaching for it, he distrusted them and felt from them apprehension. They said, “Fear not. We have been sent to the people of Lot.”

1. And his Wife was standing, and **she smiled. Then **We gave her good tidings of Isaac and after Isaac, Jacob.

That’s obviously a mistake .

 

[meedo]

Hi Meedo

Sorry bro, but nothing clarified so far! What if Ishmaelites were Arabs? What if the Bible referred to Mount Paran? Where does the Bible state that Abraham went to Mecca with Ishmael? Where does the Bible state that the first temple (or sacred house) was built in Mecca or in the same place as the Ishmaelites lived? (I also see that you refer to many verses in the Bible solely because your dear Scripture fails to highlight the link between Ishmaelites and Arabs!)

More, the Psalm you quoted (84: 5-6) has nothing to do with Mecca, but with Bacca. These are apparently different names. Do you think it is honest to distort a name in the Psalms so as to accommodate the word of God to the corrupted Islamic scripture?

It is clear from the context of Psalm 84 that Bacca is the name of a place in Palestine through which Jewish pilgrims passed on their way to Jerusalem to the Temple of God.

Read the following link to be sure that the Bible does not refer to Mecca: answering-islam.org.uk/BibleCom/baca.html

I hope this will clarify a bit

Peace to you,
Angelos N.

Angelos,

. By the Way Mecca is mentioned as becca in the Quran . I guess you didnt know that . The rest of what you wrote i see no reason to comment on. Its your own idea of things. have fun.

meedo

 

[Angelos]

Angelos, which Quranic verse mentions Issac and Jacob as brothers??

Well, the writers of the Quran did not know until late that Ishmael was Abraham’s son. This is why they repetitively referred to Jacob as Abraham’s second son! Pay attention to the verses below:

EARLY PERIOD OF THE QURAN: ABRAHAM’S TWO SONS WERE ISAAC AND JACOB NO ISHMAEL!!!

6: 84 We gave him Ishaq and Ya’qub: all (three) We guided: and before him, We guided Nuh, and among his progeny, Dawud, Sulaiman, Ayyub, Yusuf, Musa and Harun: thus do We reward those who do good.

11: 71 And his wife was standing (there), and she laughed: but We gave her glad tidings of Ishaq, and after him, of Ya’qub.

12: 6 “Thus will thy Lord choose thee and teach thee the interpretation of stories (and events) and perfect His favour to thee and to the posterity of Ya’qub, even as He perfected it to thy fathers **Ibrahim and Ishaq **aforetime! for thy Lord is full of knowledge and wisdom.”

12: 38 "And I follow the ways of my fathers, Ibrahim, Ishaq, and Ya’qub; and never could we attribute any partners whatever to Allah: that (comes) of the grace of Allah to us and to mankind: yet most men are not grateful

19: 49 When he had turned away from them and from those whom they worshipped besides Allah, We bestowed on him Ishaq and Ya’qub, and each one of them We made a prophet.

21: 72 And We bestowed on him Ishaq and, as an additional gift, Ya’qub, and We made righteous men of every one (of them).

29: 27 And we gave (Ibrahim) Ishaq and Ya’qub, and ordained among his progeny Prophethood and Revelation, and We granted him his reward in this life; and he was in the Hereafter (of the company) of the Righteous.

38: 45 And commemorate Our Servants Ibrahim, Ishaq, and Ya’qub, possessors of Power and Vision.

However, Muhammed’s scribes added Ishmael’s name to Abraham’s progeny first in a late Mecca period - by omitting Jacob - , but they were not courageous enough to ascribe Kaa’ba’s construction to Abraham yet!

14: 39 "Praise be to Allah. Who hath granted unto me in old age Isma’il and Ishaq: for truly my Lord is He, the Hearer of Prayer!

(Muhammed’s scribes were probably praying: "Praise be to Allah. Who has granted unto us in old age the information that Ishmael was Abraham’s first son )

In Medina period, nevertheless, Muhammed’s scribes always added Ishmael to Abraham’s progeny although sometimes it caused bigger mistakes:

MEDINA PERIOD: ABRAHAM’S SONS ARE ISHMAEL AND ISAAC. (ISHMAEL IS ISAAC’S FATHER!)

2: 133 Were ye witnesses when Death appeared before Ya’qub? Behold he said to his sons: “What will ye worship after me?” They said: “We shall worship thy God and the God of thy fathers, - of Ibrahim, Isma’il and Ishaq, - the One (True) God: to Him we bow (in Islam).”

2: 136 Say ye: “We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Ibrahim, Isma’il, Ishaq, Ya’qub, and the Tribes, and that given to Musa and 'Isa, and that given to (all) Prophets from their Lord: we make no difference between one and another of them: and we bow to Allah (in Islam).”

**2: 140 **Or do ye say that Ibrahim, Isma’il, Ishaq, Ya’qub, and the Tribes were Jews or Christians? Say: Do ye know better than Allah? Ah! who is more unjust than those who conceal the testimony they have from Allah? But Allah is not unmindful of what ye do!

3: 84 Say: “We believe in Allah, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Ibrahim, Isma’il, Ishaq, Ya’qub, and the Tribes, and in (the Books) given to Musa, 'Isa, and the Prophets, from their Lord: we make no distinction between one and another among them, and to Allah do we bow our will (in Islam).”

4: 163 We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Nuh and the Messengers after him: We sent inspiration to Ibrahim, Isma’il, Ishaq, Ya’qub, and the Tribes, to 'Isa, Ayyub, Yunus, Harun, and Sulaiman, and to Dawud We gave the Psalms.

Gabriel’s apology: Forgive me Muhammed rasulullah, it was my fault to confuse Isaac with Ishmael and Ishmael with Jacob. Too much noise up here! So please do not send your army upon me and do not stop interceding for me on the day of Judgment.

Peace,
Angelos N.

 

[meedo]

Hi epistemes

More to the point, Muhammed’s scribes noticed it too late that Ishmael was Abraham’s first son! This is why until late Mecca period the Quran astonishingly claims that Abraham had two sons: Isaac and Jacob, respectively!

Peace,
ANgelos N.

I like you angelos , you are funny, and you give me hope and happiness that future missionaries are becoming sillier and sillier.

So let me get it like that. Muslims are stupid because they named Jacob the son of Abraham . Thus Christian understanding of this means that Muslims think that Jacob is mentioned in teh Quran as Isac brother?

You are a Genius angelos. But can you care to clarify if the Bible also thinks that ‘’ Bnai Israel’’ which are ‘’ the sons of Israel ‘’ means the whole jewish nation are also the brothers of teh 12 sons of jacob? Because in your own interpretation sons means sons and cannot be decendants.

I vote for you to head a university of missionaries going towards the Islamic world .

keep up the innovations

bye

 

[inJESUS]

Narrated Abu Dharr:
I said, “O Allah’s Apostle! Which mosque was built first?” He replied, “Al Masjid-ul-Haram (i.e., Ka’abah).” I asked, “Which was built next?” He replied, “Al-Masjid-ul-Aqsa (i.e., Jerusalem).” I asked, “What was the period in between them?” He replied, “Forty years.” He then added, “Whenever the time of the prayer comes upon you, perform the prayer, for all the earth is a place of worshipping for you.” Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol. 4, Bk. 55, no. 636

Thismeans Ka’abah was built at cica 998 B.C., since the construction of Solomon’s Temple was not completed until B.C. 951 which makes it ompossible for Abraham and Ishmael to have built it.