Ka'aba

[inJESUS]

Well, the writers of the Quran did not know until late that Ishmael was Abraham’s son. This is why they repetitively referred to Jacob as Abraham’s second son! Pay attention to the verses below:

EARLY PERIOD OF THE QURAN: ABRAHAM’S TWO SONS WERE ISAAC AND JACOB NO ISHMAEL!!!

6: 84 We gave him Ishaq and Ya’qub: all (three) We guided: and before him, We guided Nuh, and among his progeny, Dawud, Sulaiman, Ayyub, Yusuf, Musa and Harun: thus do We reward those who do good.

29: 27 And we gave (Ibrahim) Ishaq and Ya’qub, and ordained among his progeny Prophethood and Revelation, and We granted him his reward in this life; and he was in the Hereafter (of the company) of the Righteous.

38: 45 And commemorate Our Servants Ibrahim, Ishaq, and Ya’qub, possessors of Power and Vision.

14: 39 "Praise be to Allah. Who hath granted unto me in old age Isma’il and Ishaq: for truly my Lord is He, the Hearer of Prayer!

In Medina period, nevertheless, Muhammed’s scribes always added Ishmael to Abraham’s progeny although sometimes it caused bigger mistakes:

MEDINA PERIOD: ABRAHAM’S SONS ARE ISHMAEL AND ISAAC. (ISHMAEL IS ISAAC’S FATHER!)

2: 133 Were ye witnesses when Death appeared before Ya’qub? Behold he said to his sons: “What will ye worship after me?” They said: “We shall worship thy God and the God of thy fathers, - of Ibrahim, Isma’il and Ishaq, - the One (True) God: to Him we bow (in Islam).”

2: 136 Say ye: “We believe in Allah, and the revelation given to us, and to Ibrahim, Isma’il, Ishaq, Ya’qub, and the Tribes, and that given to Musa and 'Isa, and that given to (all) Prophets from their Lord: we make no difference between one and another of them: and we bow to Allah (in Islam).”

**2: 140 **Or do ye say that Ibrahim, Isma’il, Ishaq, Ya’qub, and the Tribes were Jews or Christians? Say: Do ye know better than Allah? Ah! who is more unjust than those who conceal the testimony they have from Allah? But Allah is not unmindful of what ye do!

3: 84 Say: “We believe in Allah, and in what has been revealed to us and what was revealed to Ibrahim, Isma’il, Ishaq, Ya’qub, and the Tribes, and in (the Books) given to Musa, 'Isa, and the Prophets, from their Lord: we make no distinction between one and another among them, and to Allah do we bow our will (in Islam).”

4: 163 We have sent thee inspiration, as We sent it to Nuh and the Messengers after him: We sent inspiration to Ibrahim, Isma’il, Ishaq, Ya’qub, and the Tribes, to 'Isa, Ayyub, Yunus, Harun, and Sulaiman, and to Dawud We gave the Psalms.

Peace,
Angelos N.

:bigyikes:

Remember also Our servants Abraham, Isaac and Jacob – men of might they and of vision. Assuredly We purified them with a quality most pure, the remembrance of the Abode, and in Our sight they are of the chosen, the excellent. S. 38:45-47

No one would have a problem in understanding that the above text means that Abraham fathered Isaac who begot Jacob.This is how it was ordered in the Bible:

The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob…Exodus 3:16

Abraham begot Isaac who begot Jacob, who had twelve sons that became the nation or children of Israel.

“You shall no longer be spoken of as Jacob, but as Israel, because you have contended with divine and human beings and have prevailed.”

That’s when wedon’t find Ishmael in the same cnsequence, since it’s father -son -grandson consequence. Yet in quran:

And Abraham charged his sons with this and Jacob likewise: ‘My sons, God has chosen for you the religion; see that you die not save in surrender.’ Why, were you witnesses, when death came to Jacob? When he said to his sons, ‘What will you serve after me?’ They said, **'We will serve thy God and the God of thy fathers Abraham, *Ishmael ***and Isaac,

Since Ishmael wasn’t one of the progenitors of Jacob, the Quran is wrong since the expression “Abraham, Isaac and Jacob” refers to Israel’s ancestry. More specifically, the expression refers to biological relations shared by the three in that Abraham fathered Isaac who in turn fathered Jacob. The expression clearly refers to father, son and grandson. Reading the statements of the Quran we are left to conclude that the author thought that Abraham fathered Ishmael who in turn begot Isaac who then fathered Jacob.

‘What will you worship after me?’ They answered, ‘We will worship thy God, the God of thy fathers, Abraham and ***Ishmael ***and Isaac, the One God; and to HIM we submit ourselves.’ 2:133

Or do you say, ‘Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac and Jacob, and the Tribes 2:130

Furthermore, what kind of wrong chronology is this:

We have revealed to thee as We revealed to Noah, and the Prophets after him, and We revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, Jesus and Job, Jonah and Aaron and Solomon, and We gave to David Psalms, S. 4:163
God wouldn’t have said such a wrong sentence.

 

[inJESUS]

Angelos,

. By the Way Mecca is mentioned as becca in the Quran . I guess you didnt know that . The rest of what you wrote i see no reason to comment on. Its your own idea of things. have fun.

meedo

of course he knew this, but his point was here: you can’t twist the Bacca of the Bible because Muhammad used the same word because :

It is clear from the context of Psalm 84 that Bacca is the name of a place in Palestine through which Jewish pilgrims passed on their way to Jerusalem to the Temple of God.

 

[inJESUS]

Meedo, talking about Issac, he was called Issac (= laughter) because Sara laughed after hearing that she’ll bear a son. But in Quran, Sara laughed before, why is that?

11:70 But when he saw their hands not reaching for it, he distrusted them and felt from them apprehension. They said, “Fear not. We have been sent to the people of Lot.”

1. And his Wife was standing, and **she smiled. Then **We gave her good tidings of Isaac and after Isaac, Jacob.

That’s obviously a mistake .

i’d really like a response to why on earth did Sara laugh in Quran?

 

[eliasaph99]

There is nothing called the first born son is not considered the first born even he is a son. There is nothing indicating this conclusion from the verses you quoted above.

Muslims dont agitate more than any normal people agitate. Would you care to give an example?

Your first sentence is incomprehensible, so I’m not sure how to respond to it. It seems you are taking issue with my denial of Ishmaels claim on Abrahams legacy, yet that is exactly what verse 21:12 says. Abrahams line is reckoned from Isaac, not Ishmael.

God comforts Abraham by telling him that He will watch over Ishmael, but also comforts him by telling him that His true descendants are the descendants of his wife, hence the descendants of Isaac. The Arabs are not the spiritual descendants of Abraham.

As for Muslims agitating, as far as I can tell, that’s all they do. Let’s bring up a few examples: Darfur, Riots in France, Bombings in Israel, Bombings in Kashmir, Hamas, Al-Qaeda, Chechnya, Tamil Tigers, etc. etc. etc.

In addition to all this, you can go on Memri.org and check out the daily television diet of the Muslim world. Shows about the evil Jews, talk shows advising husbands to beat their wives, preachers inciting their followers to violence and hatred, etc. etc. etc.

The fact is that the vast majority of wars going on around the world are between Muslims and their neighbors or Muslims and their host countries and were instigated by the Muslims.

 

[Reuben_J]

Narrated Abu Dharr:
I said, “O Allah’s Apostle! Which mosque was built first?” He replied, “Al Masjid-ul-Haram (i.e., Ka’abah).” I asked, “Which was built next?” He replied, “Al-Masjid-ul-Aqsa (i.e., Jerusalem).” I asked, “What was the period in between them?” He replied, “Forty years.” He then added, “Whenever the time of the prayer comes upon you, perform the prayer, for all the earth is a place of worshipping for you.” Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol. 4, Bk. 55, no. 636

Thismeans Ka’abah was built at cica 998 B.C., since the construction of Solomon’s Temple was not completed until B.C. 951 which makes it ompossible for Abraham and Ishmael to have built it.

This is very convincing - that Mohammad did not know what he was talking about or he was manufacturing it up or that he got it from some source and merely parroting it.

Facts and figures do not lie (assuming inJesus right about the dates).

 

[meedo]

Narrated Abu Dharr:
I said, “O Allah’s Apostle! Which mosque was built first?” He replied, “Al Masjid-ul-Haram (i.e., Ka’abah).” I asked, “Which was built next?” He replied, “Al-Masjid-ul-Aqsa (i.e., Jerusalem).” I asked, “What was the period in between them?” He replied, “Forty years.” He then added, “Whenever the time of the prayer comes upon you, perform the prayer, for all the earth is a place of worshipping for you.” Sahih al-Bukhari, Vol. 4, Bk. 55, no. 636

Thismeans Ka’abah was built at cica 998 B.C., since the construction of Solomon’s Temple was not completed until B.C. 951 which makes it ompossible for Abraham and Ishmael to have built it.

This hadeeth is refering to the construction of the Both temples for the first time. Islam doesnt believe that The Temples were ‘‘founded’’ by solomon or abraham. There is no mistake here .

 

[meedo]

:bigyikes:

Remember also Our servants Abraham, Isaac and Jacob – men of might they and of vision. Assuredly We purified them with a quality most pure, the remembrance of the Abode, and in Our sight they are of the chosen, the excellent. S. 38:45-47

No one would have a problem in understanding that the above text means that Abraham fathered Isaac who begot Jacob.This is how it was ordered in the Bible:

The LORD, the God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob…Exodus 3:16

Abraham begot Isaac who begot Jacob, who had twelve sons that became the nation or children of Israel.

“You shall no longer be spoken of as Jacob, but as Israel, because you have contended with divine and human beings and have prevailed.”

That’s when wedon’t find Ishmael in the same cnsequence, since it’s father -son -grandson consequence. Yet in quran:

And Abraham charged his sons with this and Jacob likewise: ‘My sons, God has chosen for you the religion; see that you die not save in surrender.’ Why, were you witnesses, when death came to Jacob? When he said to his sons, ‘What will you serve after me?’ They said, **'We will serve thy God and the God of thy fathers Abraham, *Ishmael ***and Isaac,

Since Ishmael wasn’t one of the progenitors of Jacob, the Quran is wrong since the expression “Abraham, Isaac and Jacob” refers to Israel’s ancestry. More specifically, the expression refers to biological relations shared by the three in that Abraham fathered Isaac who in turn fathered Jacob. The expression clearly refers to father, son and grandson. Reading the statements of the Quran we are left to conclude that the author thought that Abraham fathered Ishmael who in turn begot Isaac who then fathered Jacob.

‘What will you worship after me?’ They answered, ‘We will worship thy God, the God of thy fathers, Abraham and ***Ishmael ***and Isaac, the One God; and to HIM we submit ourselves.’ 2:133

Or do you say, ‘Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac and Jacob, and the Tribes 2:130

Furthermore, what kind of wrong chronology is this:

We have revealed to thee as We revealed to Noah, and the Prophets after him, and We revealed to Abraham, Ishmael, Isaac, Jacob, and the Tribes, Jesus and Job, Jonah and Aaron and Solomon, and We gave to David Psalms, S. 4:163
God wouldn’t have said such a wrong sentence.

I dont understand what is your point here , i dont see any wrong in the verses . Can you please summarise what do you think is wrong ?

 

[meedo]

i’d really like a response to why on earth did Sara laugh in Quran?

Because she laughed at the idea that she would give birth whie she was very Old .

whats so strange about that ?

 

[meedo]

Your first sentence is incomprehensible, so I’m not sure how to respond to it. It seems you are taking issue with my denial of Ishmaels claim on Abrahams legacy, yet that is exactly what verse 21:12 says. Abrahams line is reckoned from Isaac, not Ishmael.

God comforts Abraham by telling him that He will watch over Ishmael, but also comforts him by telling him that His true descendants are the descendants of his wife, hence the descendants of Isaac. The Arabs are not the spiritual descendants of Abraham.

As for Muslims agitating, as far as I can tell, that’s all they do. Let’s bring up a few examples: Darfur, Riots in France, Bombings in Israel, Bombings in Kashmir, Hamas, Al-Qaeda, Chechnya, Tamil Tigers, etc. etc. etc.

In addition to all this, you can go on Memri.org and check out the daily television diet of the Muslim world. Shows about the evil Jews, talk shows advising husbands to beat their wives, preachers inciting their followers to violence and hatred, etc. etc. etc.

The fact is that the vast majority of wars going on around the world are between Muslims and their neighbors or Muslims and their host countries and were instigated by the Muslims.

Well your interpretation of the verses can differ from mine. So i guess you have your way and i have mine.

As for agitaion, i can say same things about Christians. Holocaust is a Christian industry , so is inquisitions. Your history is full of wiping out original people of their home lands and burning of scientists. Genocides and pogroms . Uprooting of democratically eleted governments for teh sake of personal interests and support of dictatorships . etc… I am sure if i didicate a TV program to monitor the evil truths about the crhistian world i would have many .

 

[Melchior]

Are you sure about this?

JER 47:1 The word of the Lord that came to Jeremias the prophet against the people of Palestine, before Pharao took Gaza.
EZEK 16:57 Before thy malice was laid open: as it is at this time, making thee a reproach of the daughters of Syria, and of all the daughters of **Palestine **round about thee, that encompass thee on all sides.

JOEL 3:4 Yea, and what have ye to do with me, O Tyre, and Zidon, and all the coasts of Palestine? will ye render me a recompence? and if ye recompense me, swiftly and speedily will I return your recompence upon your own head;

Some versions of the Bible capture it as Philistine which is the same.

Salaam.
Joseph.

Positive. It is a fact if history. The translation you are using is at odds with just about every English translation.

Jeremiah 47:1

The word of the Lord that came to Jeremiah the prophet concerning the Philistines, before Pharaoh struck down Gaza.

Ezekiel 16:57

before your wickedness was uncovered? Now you have become an object of reproach for the daughters of Syria and all those around her, and for the daughters of the Philistines, those all around who despise you.

Joel 3:4

“What are you to me, O Tyre and Sidon, and all the regions of Philistia? Are you paying me back for something? If you are paying me back, I will return your payment on your own head swiftly and speedily.

All literal translations say Philistia or Philistine. Remember these are translated from Hebrew not Arabic. As I said the word “Palestine” was a Roman mistranlation (done on purpose). This is not a polemical point, just a fact of history.

 

[Melchior]

Well your interpretation of the verses can differ from mine. So i guess you have your way and i have mine.

As for agitaion, i can say same things about Christians. Holocaust is a Christian industry , so is inquisitions. Your history is full of wiping out original people of their home lands and burning of scientists. Genocides and pogroms . Uprooting of democratically eleted governments for teh sake of personal interests and support of dictatorships . etc… I am sure if i didicate a TV program to monitor the evil truths about the crhistian world i would have many .

Yes and Muslim lands are fully Democratic and bastions of human rights and freedom that have offered the world so much in science, medicine and minority rights.

 

[meedo]

Yes and Muslim lands are fully Democratic and bastions of human rights and freedom that have offered the world so much in science, medicine and minority rights.

Well , it will be so when some of your countrey men stop supporting dictatorships and outing democratically elected governments. Yes Islam was a pioneer in many sciences and hold a debt on western civilization for their learning and advancement. This is a fact. as for minority rights at least we didnt have a holocaust . and our minoriuties dont live in Ghettos.

 

[Melchior]

Well , it will be so when some of your countrey men stop supporting dictatorships and outing democratically elected governments. Yes Islam was a pioneer in many sciences and hold a debt on western civilization for their learning and advancement. This is a fact. as for minority rights at least we didnt have a holocaust . and our minoriuties dont live in Ghettos.

You cannot blame America for your leaders failures. That is too convenient you have been around longer than America. Your minorities live under oppression. In Sudan Christians are slaughtered. You have the extreme rich and the extreme poor. The only democracies were enabled and funded by America and the west. But we see what happen when democratice elections happen, the people chose Hamas. As for the holocaust, my family were the victims not the oppressors. As if Muslims care about a Jewish holocaust. Many muslims deny it happened. Further, Hitler and the Nazis reputiated Christianity. They were Neo-pagans not Christians. Islam millions have been put to the sword in the name of Islam. Families are being slaughtered today in African muslims countries.

As for Ghettos, the poorest in America are ten times richer than the average, Egyptian, Saudi Arabian or Jordanian. You cannot seriously believe that Islamic nations are not responsible for their own sorry state. But I understand personal responsibility does not exist is that culture. If you trip on the side walk you would say the sidewalk tripped you. See we are no longer ignorant of how it works over there. And I would rather be a black man in Alabama in 1920 than a Jew in Egypt in 2006. What democracies have been ousted and what dictators are you referring too? How about Syria contolling Lebanon for so long? Almost all the regimes in the middle east are dictatorships, save Iraq (thanks to us) Jordan and Lebanon for a for more weeks at least. The only democracy that has thrived and been truly democratic in the middle east, is ironically, Israel.

The American dollar keeps the entire middle east afloat. Israel is the only nation there that could sustain itself without our intervention and produces anything exportable other oil. And before you say it… Egypt receives the same amount, dollar for dollar and militarily as Israel. But alas it is human nature to bite the hand that feeds it.

But I digress. Such bickering is pointless.

 

[meedo]

You cannot blame America for your leaders failures. That is too convenient you have been around longer than America. Your minorities live under oppression. In Sudan Christians are slaughtered. You have the extreme rich and the extreme poor. The only democracies were enable and funded by America and the west. But we see what happen when democratice elections happen, the people chose Hamas. As for the holocaust, my family were the victims not the oppressors. As if Muslims care about a Jewish holocaust. Many muslims deny it happened. Further, Hitler and the Nazis reputiated Christianity. They were Neo-pagans not Christians. Islam millions have been put to the sword in the name of Islam. Families are being slaughtered today in African muslims countries.

As for Ghettos, the poorest in America are ten times richer than the average, Egyptian, Saudi Arabian or Jordanian. You cannot seriously believe that Islamic nations are not responsible for their own sorry state. But I understand personal responsibility does not exist is that culture. If you trip on the side walk you would say the sidewalk tripped you. See we are no longer ignorant of how it works over there. And I would rather be a black man in Alabama in 1920 than a Jew in Egypt in 2006. What democracies have been ousted and what dictators are you referring too? How about Syria contolling Lebanon for so long? Almost all the regimes in the middle east are dictatorships, save Iraq (thanks to us) Jordan and Lebanon for a for more weeks at least. The only democracy that has thrived and been truly democratic in the middle east, is ironically, Israel.

But I digress. Such bickering is pointless.

Oh how about Iran Mossadak regime that was ousted by the US and Britain and installed Shah Iran who was a brutal dictator*? How about helpinmg saddam while he was fighting Iran knowing that saddam is a brute dictator and gassed his own people. Yeah hitler was never a christian but he commanded millions of christians both catholics and protestants who hated the jews Guts!! Read Hitlers willing excutioner. Tell me why your country has been helping warlords in somalia against the popular islamic courts movement? Tell me why ‘‘RIGHT NOW’’ your country is happy that Ethiopia is invading somalia and call somalian self defence ‘‘agression’’.

Your country’s foreign policy is hyporcitical from A to Z . And after so many years of illusion it no more deceives any body .

Just pack and leave out of the middle east . if i had the means i would accept all muslim immigrants from Europe and the west and america back to Muslim countris on condition that America and Europe just get the hell out of islamic lands and never even remember we exit. I dont recall any thing favourable about your countris except some good holywood movies .

Israel is a democracy for the jewish people only. Soi is every dictatorship for the people they prefer. Democracy for the preferred only is dictatorship for the rest sir!!

this fool talk about how the west is morally supirior might have fooled some people in my region 5 or ten years ago.

bye

 

[eliasaph99]

Well your interpretation of the verses can differ from mine. So i guess you have your way and i have mine.

As for agitaion, i can say same things about Christians. Holocaust is a Christian industry , so is inquisitions. Your history is full of wiping out original people of their home lands and burning of scientists. Genocides and pogroms . Uprooting of democratically eleted governments for teh sake of personal interests and support of dictatorships . etc… I am sure if i didicate a TV program to monitor the evil truths about the crhistian world i would have many .

I think that people have responded well to your second paragraph, so I’ll only respond to your first.

What?1?

To be quite honest, I am not interpreting the verses at all. I am not reading into them. I am not looking for an analogy or trying to draw an inferred spiritual lesson. I am reading the words literally.

Genesis 21:12 “…because it is through Isaac that your offspring will be reckoned.”

Please provide your interpretation of this line which leads you to believe that what it really means is that Abrahams descendants are reckoned from Ishmael.

 

[Melchior]

Oh how about Iran Mossadak regime that was ousted by the US and Britain and installed Shah Iran who was a brutal dictator*? How about helpinmg saddam while he was fighting Iran knowing that saddam is a brute dictator and gassed his own people. Yeah hitler was never a christian but he commanded millions of christians both catholics and protestants who hated the jews Guts!! Read Hitlers willing excutioner. Tell me why your country has been helping warlords in somalia against the popular islamic courts movement? Tell me why ‘‘RIGHT NOW’’ your country is happy that Ethiopia is invading somalia and call somalian self defence ‘‘agression’’.

Your country’s foreign policy is hyporcitical from A to Z . And after so many years of illusion it no more deceives any body .

Just pack and leave out of the middle east . if i had the means i would accept all muslim immigrants from Europe and the west and america back to Muslim countris on condition that America and Europe just get the hell out of islamic lands and never even remember we exit. I dont recall any thing favourable about your countris except some good holywood movies .

Israel is a democracy for the jewish people only. Soi is every dictatorship for the people they prefer. Democracy for the preferred only is dictatorship for the rest sir!!

this fool talk about how the west is morally supirior might have fooled some people in my region 5 or ten years ago.

bye

Yeah, Iran’s regime is much better now. Lol. Your shallow understanding of geopolitics is clear. But when you are fed missinformation by a freedomless press I can’t really blame you. It is amazing you are allowed on the internet.

I would be more than happy if we left the middle east tomorrow and for all your people who left for the west for a better life (those not in sleeper cells) to go back to there homelands. That would be wonderful. We would be safer and so would you. But of course your countries would collapse without us within a week. Face it you hate us, yet you need us.

And 12% of Israeli citizens are Arabs. Do any muslim countires have Jewish citizens with equal right and a vote? Didn’t think so.

Tell you what you get muslims to stop pouring into our countries by the millions and we stop keeping yours afloat financially.

No practicing Christian hates Jews guts. But practicing muslims do. It is a virtue in your system. So please don’t use the Jews for your convenience. The Islamic world hates Jews as much as Hitler ever did.

 

[Melchior]

Yeah, Iran’s regime is much better now. Lol. Your shallow understanding of geopolitics is clear. But when you are fed missinformation by a freedomless press I can’t really blame you. It is amazing you are allowed on the internet.

I would be more than happy if we left the middle east tomorrow and for all your people who left for the west for a better life (those not in sleeper cells) to go back to there homelands. That would be wonderful. We would be safer and so would you. But of course your countries would collapse without us within a week. Face it you hate us, yet you need us.

And 12% of Israeli citizens are Arabs. Do any muslim countires have Jewish citizens with equal right and a vote? Didn’t think so.

Tell you what you get muslims to stop pouring into our countries by the millions and we stop keeping yours afloat financially.

No practicing Christian hates Jews. But practicing muslims do. It is a virtue in your system. So please don’t use the Jews for your convenience. Do you even believe the holocaust happened? The Islamic world hates Jews as much as Hitler ever did.

 

[Angelos]

I like you angelos , you are funny, and you give me hope and happiness that future missionaries are becoming sillier and sillier.

So let me get it like that. Muslims are stupid because they named Jacob the son of Abraham . Thus Christian understanding of this means that Muslims think that Jacob is mentioned in teh Quran as Isac brother?

You are a Genius angelos. But can you care to clarify if the Bible also thinks that ‘’ Bnai Israel’’ which are ‘’ the sons of Israel ‘’ means the whole jewish nation are also the brothers of teh 12 sons of jacob? Because in your own interpretation sons means sons and cannot be decendants.

I vote for you to head a university of missionaries going towards the Islamic world .

keep up the innovations

bye

Hi Meedo

Thanks for all your precious compliments. I think you are a genius too that lacks the knowledge of one thing: distinguishing sarcasm from insult. When will you stop insulting my personality? Are you not tired of bringing up false charges against me? When will you reach Islamic maturity and dignity? I’ll be praying for you.

I have never claimed to be a genius, but thank Jesus the Lord I am intelligent enough to say the metaphoric sense of the word “son” from its indispensable sense pertaining to biological affiliation. The Bible never claims that Jacob was given to Abraham as the second son! Nonetheless, it is clear as daylight that in the Quran the angels visiting Abraham prophesied the birth of Isaac and Jacob simultaneously (11: 71).

In short, no matter how hard you try, the truth prevails!

Peace to you,
Angelos N.

 

[Melchior]

Meedo,

It was not my intent to get into a political debate with you.

May the God of all peace grant you peace, mercy and life everlasting, through the one mediator between God and man - Jesus Christ the one who died and suffered for your sins that you might be saved.

I truly pray that He reveals himself to you and that you would be saved. There is nothing I would like more than to call you brother.

Peace to you.

Mel

 

[inJESUS]

Because she laughed at the idea that she would give birth whie she was very Old .

whats so strange about that ?

correct, but that’s the **Biblical **account.

Genesis 18:10
“I will surely return to you about this time next year, and **Sarah will then have a son.” **Sarah was listening at the entrance of the tent, just behind him.
Now Abraham and Sarah were old, advanced in years, and Sarah had stopped having her womanly periods. So Sarah laughed to herself and said, “Now that I am so withered and my husband is so old, am I still to have sexual pleasure?”

Here is the Quranic account:

11:70 But when he saw their hands not reaching for it, he distrusted them and felt from them apprehension. They said, “Fear not. We have been sent to the people of Lot.”

1. And his Wife was standing, and **she smiled. Then **We gave her good tidings of Isaac and after Isaac, Jacob.

In the Quran, Sarah laughed **BEFORE **knowing that she’ll be pragnant. See the problem?