Kaepernick controversy

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otrrl

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The American Flag and the National Anthem are symbols, but should not be idols.

I have an open mind on this, but right now I think people should be allowed to kneel as a protest over unwarranted police violence towards any persons.

The First Amendment says that we have a right to free speech, and I think that includes an orderly and peaceful demonstration. Are we the land of the free?

“O say does that star-spangled banner yet wave
O’er the land of the free and the home of the brave?”​

 
otrrl said:
I have an open mind on this, but right now I think people should be allowed to kneel as a protest over unwarranted police violence towards any persons.
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People are allowed to kneel. No one is being arrested. But, as a consumer of professional sports, I’m allowed to object, and curtail my consumption over it, and the team owners are allowed to consider whether the actions of their employees, especially in the workplace, are conducive to staying in business. People act as if the protesters are the only ones allowed to do what they want and the rest of us just have to shut up and take. We don’t.
 
I know a guy who quit his local Knights of Columbus because they had a Super Bowl party. He was so worked up about the kneeling thing, he thought that them even having a get together involving NFL viewing was disrespectful to veterans.

I personally think that reaction (and many of the reactions) are extreme. But it’s a free country, so—as ucfengr stated—that cuts both ways.

I think it’s really kind of sad because there are two completely different conversations taking place. Either you object to the players kneeling because you’re a racist KKK sympathizer. Or else you agree with the kneeling because you take delight in spitting in the eyes of veterans. People just don’t listen to each other.
 
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I don’t have any problem with them demonstrating per se but what bothers me is they’re doing it while at work. I believe this gives their employers the right to suspend or fire them as they see fit (after a warning of course). I don’t have unlimited rights in my workplace to broadcast controversial statements and neither do they.
 
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Right. I don’t have a problem with them demonstrating. And I don’t have a problem with the NFL setting guidelines about what they can and cannot do. The owners of the NFL are within their rights to ask for their players to behave in a certain way as a condition for employment. And the players are free to disregard those rules and face the consequences.
 
Shakuhachi said:
Why is kneeling disrespectful?
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I think those that find it disrespectful don’t find kneeling per se to be disrespectful. They think it is disrespectful that the players are not standing and participating in the national anthem.

Personally, I think kneeling as they are is a pretty respectful way to make the statement they are trying to make. They’re not slouching on the bench with their arms crossed. They’re not angrily attempting to shout over those who are singing the national anthem.
 
otrrl said:
The American Flag and the National Anthem are symbols, but should not be idols.

I have an open mind on this, but right now I think people should be allowed to kneel as a protest over unwarranted police violence towards any persons.

The First Amendment says that we have a right to free speech, and I think that includes an orderly and peaceful demonstration. Are we the land of the free?
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Can you conduct political protests on company time?
 
The symbols of this country are not more important than the values that they symbolize.
 
Shakuhachi said:
Why is kneeling disrespectful?
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Do you really not understand why someone might find protesting during the playing of the National Anthem to be disrespectful? I get that you don’t have a problem with it, but is it truly a mystery to you that someone might not share your opinion on the matter?
Rhubarb said:
The symbols of this country are not more important than the values that they symbolize.
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Shared national rituals should be more important than momentary political differences.
 
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Joe_5859 said:
I think it’s really kind of sad because there are two completely different conversations taking place. Either you object to the players kneeling because you’re a racist KKK sympathizer. Or else you agree with the kneeling because you take delight in spitting in the eyes of veterans. People just don’t listen to each other.
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This is one of the more accurate summaries of the situation I have seen. Spot on.
 
I suppose Washington should have disbanded his army then, to not let momentary political differences disrupt the national rituals of the British Colonies.
 
Rhubarb said:
I suppose Washington should have disbanded his army then, to not let momentary political differences disrupt the national rituals of the British Colonies.
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A colony isn’t a nation. That was what lead up to the American Revolution, the refusal to treat American colonists as British citizens with similar rights and privileges.
 
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otrrl said:
The First Amendment says that we have a right to free speech, and I think that includes an orderly and peaceful demonstration.
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When I was in high school the school officially acknowledged that standing for the pledge was optional. We had this right before the school acknowledge it though. I had a friend that was Jehovah’s witness that never stood. Later in life I had a coworker that told me when he was in high school he never stood and had to get his parents to come to the school to explain to the teachers that religious convictions prevented him from standing.

The school is considered kind of an arm of the government though. So if they tried to enforce otherwise it could be considered a free speech violation.

When it comes to entities that are not considered part of the government and are not acting on behalf of the government then we are in different territory. The NFL punishing someone that takes a knee isn’t a Constitutional Free Speech issue. A Social media company censoring someone is’t a Constitutional Free Speech issue. There are a lot of things that one can do to limit speech that are not Constitutional Free Speech issues since they don’t involve the government.
Shakuhachi said:
Why is kneeling disrespectful?
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Political statements with which ones disagree are sometimes treated as disrespectful. It sometimes doesn’t matter if the disrespect is meant or not.
 
Tell that to the Torries who opposed the war.

There WAS a British identity and sense or culture. And political representation was a momentary political difference.

This nation has been one long string of momentary political differences changing the course of it
 
I agree, and that is what I don’t get.

Kaepernick sees something he doesn’t like and protests a certain way, as is his right. No one asks Colin to explain why the actions he is protesting bother him.

Some people see his form of protest, and they in turn protest in a certain way; turning off games, booing, or not buying merchandise and tickets, and they have a variety of reasons why they don’t like it. Yet everyone asks those folks to explain why they feel as they do.

Seems to be a bit of inconsistency, to me.
 
Some people see it as disrespectful. Whether you agree or not is irrelevant, as they are free to protest his protest the same way he is free to protest things he takes issue with.

Others simply don’t like athletes or celebrities involving political or social statements with paying customers. That is also their right to feel that way, and respond as they seen fit.
I just dont know why Colin should be given leeway when are others who disagree with Colin are not given the same courtesy. Seems to be a bit of a one-way street.
 
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