Kamala Harris announces $100B plan for black homeownership, tackling racial wealth gap

[Felicia1]

No it isn’t. Why have people who just got here from a primitive country and have gained significant wealth. And we’re told that because of redlining that hasn’t been legal for going on 60 years, black people don’t have the wealth white people do?

I was giving you the benefit of the doubt:

But they know how to work and how to do math.

But it seems you really were just implying black people don’t know how to work or do math.

And yes, in a country where owning a home is a major component of wealth, encouraging white home ownership and depressing the value of black-owned homes a few decades ago will have effects today. To think it wouldn’t shows a complete non-understanding of the effects of generational wealth.

 

[Hodos]

Other that giving taxpayer money to some people in some unspecified way, I don’t see that Harris is really promoting anything that isn’t already there. FHA will guarantee loans for first time buyers and people who are not first time buyers. There are other programs like that. Almost never do those buyers pay the closing costs. Sellers pay them.

That was my point. This proposed program is redundant, discriminatory, and almost certain to encourage bad lending practices.

Possibly she is advocating giving loans to people with bad credit. Probably those loans would be government guaranteed as well, since nobody would make them otherwise. If it’s real, it sounds to me like a welfare program for bond traders.

Hard to say how this would work since there are no details furnished in the proposal. I agree, sounds like it essentially provides the same government incentives for the bad lending practices that caused the Great Recession.

 

[Ridgerunner]

But it seems you really were just implying black people don’t know how to work or do math.

Not at all. As you may recall, I suggested the super-wealth of some whites might be distorting the picture. You, not I, chose to make it a racist thing.

And yes, in a country where owning a home is a major component of wealth, encouraging white home ownership and depressing the value of black-owned homes a few decades ago will have effects today. To think it wouldn’t shows a complete non-understanding of the effects of generational wealth.

A home may be “counted” as wealth, but it’s really a consumer good, like a car. Are you really saying black home ownership has been discouraged for these last 60 years since it has been actively promoted?

I realize you don’t like my stories, but I have seen people buy some of the worst “starter” homes you ever saw, then to sell several years later and buy a home of real significance. And they’re not all white buyers either. Lots of people of Mexican descent have done that in the area where I live.

But the real “wealth” isn’t that. It’s what people like the Hmong are doing; building businesses that will pay their own way to really serious wealth. And while I don’t have all that much contact with black businesses in cities, I do have relatives in St. Louis and there are lots of up and coming black owned businesses there. That’s real wealth. Houses aren’t.

 

[Felicia1]

As you may recall, I suggested the super-wealth of some whites might be distorting the picture.

Luckily we have the concept of a median to deal with outliers.

Are you really saying black home ownership has been discouraged for these last 60 years since it has been actively promoted?

I’m saying it’s much harder for black people to buy homes because they have much less money than white people. This is due to slavery, Jim Crow, the war on drugs and many other manifestations of racism, but an especially significant cause is housing policy 60-70 years ago.

I realize you don’t like my stories

I like your stories just fine, they’re just rarely at all relevant to the discussion at hand.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I’m saying it’s much harder for black people to buy homes because they have much less money than white people. This is due to slavery, Jim Crow, the war on drugs and many other manifestations of racism, but an especially significant cause is housing policy 60-70 years ago.

Not so. Nobody today is bound by what happened 60 or 70 years ago, not the least of reasons in housing being that you don’t need a down payment nowadays to buy a home. 60 years ago, you did. You might have been able to buy with 10% down and PMI, but it mostly required 20% down. Now you don’t need even the 10%.

But again, a home is a consumer good. People count it as wealth, but it isn’t. And you sure don’t need to have wealth to buy a home either.

 

[pnewton]

Then “thou shalt not steal” and “thou shalt not covet” have no meaning.

Of course they do. I speak of Catholic theology, you know, the stuff they talk about at Catholic Answers. For example, did you know that Catholic teaching says taking the property of another may not always be a sin? If you do not agree, then realize that most here are Catholics.

2408 The seventh commandment forbids theft , that is, usurping another’s property against the reasonable will of the owner. There is no theft if consent can be presumed or if refusal is contrary to reason and the universal destination of goods. This is the case in obvious and urgent necessity when the only way to provide for immediate, essential needs (food, shelter, clothing . . .) is to put at one’s disposal and use the property of others.

 

[Ridgerunner]

This might be passingly interesting. It appears religion has a major effect on the wealth and income of those adherents of given religions. Not to start something bad here, but in the U.S. Jews have more income and wealth on average than Catholics. But apparently there is a cultural thing among Jews in which they invest early in life in high-risk investments at the expense of home-ownership. Others don’t do that. Later on, Jews tend to have greater wealth because of it.

 

[pnewton]

While I agree with the concept of allowing people to make reparations for those actions they take that harm others, I do not see how this could be generalized to any group based on skin color, or any other accident of birth. This type of thinking is too close to that which allowed great evil in the past. If a plan was made to help people in need which did not violate the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which forbids discrimination, then that might work, but it would still need to be practical.

 

[Felicia1]

Not a “gambit”, just noting that King wrote about people with opinions like yours in the Letter from Birmingham Jail.

As dvdjs already noted it’s interesting that you take issue when Americans here speak inaccurately about Europe but you also get to lecture Americans about how it is here.

And in the face of injustice it is our moral obligation to act.

Nobody today is bound by what happened 60 or 70 years ago

This is astoundingly incorrect.

White people who perpetuate the economic injustice in this country are sinners. I feel like this is a little different than implying black people can’t do math, but white fragility is a heck of a drug.

 

[pnewton]

And in the face of injustice it is our moral obligation to act.

Absolutely. Thus, we have several officers who have killed someone either out of careless, lack of training, or sheer stupidity, convicted and sent to prison.

 

[pnewton]

White people who perpetuate the economic injustice in this country are sinners.

All people who perpetuate any injustice are sinners. Even simpler, all people are sinners. I do not think anyone would deny this.

 

[dvdjs]

discriminatory

How is it discriminatory?

 

[JonNC]

Of course they do. I speak of Catholic theology, you know, the stuff they talk about at Catholic Answers. For example, did you know that Catholic teaching says taking the property of another may not always be a sin? If you do not agree, then realize that most here are Catholics.

I’ve been here a very long time. Of course it is not always a sin. Taxation is not necessarily theft. In this case, we are not talking about an emergency of food, clothing, or shelter.
Unless, of course, you think defeating Trump is such an emergency.

 

[JonNC]

So you are decrying black people being judged as a generalized group but suggesting white people can be judged in such a fashion. Interesting double standard and contradiction going on there.
[/quote]

Generally, it is know in America as intersectionality. Simple bigotry.

 

[JonNC]

Felicia1:

White people who perpetuate the economic injustice in this country are sinners.

All people who perpetuate any injustice are sinners. Even simpler, all people are sinners. I do not think anyone would deny this.

Thank you for this.

 

[dvdjs]

All people who perpetuate any injustice are sinners.

Please note that @Felicia1 posted:

White people who perpetuate the economic injustice in this country are sinners.

NOT

White people, who perpetuate the economic injustice in this country, are sinners.

The reference to white people was a response to another poster asked about white people.

 

[midori]

I usually talk religion on the CA Forums, and I talk biz on the ll forums I frequent-- but I really liked @Ridgerunner 's point about how homeownership isn’t always a positive burden for everyone. Just like a college degree can be a great key that unlocks job opportunity for some, and represents crushing debt to others. Houses don’t grow infinitely in value; they’re not ATM to milk money out of. It’s something you pay off; it’s something that you pay taxes on; it’s something that you pay to maintain. I had my roof damaged in a windstorm earlier this year; I had to come up with $14k, and insurance came up with diddly-squat to assist. If your a/c is 30 years old and in need of replacement, you need to come up with $5k or so to get it replaced. I just did about $2k worth of soffit repair while I was at it, because squirrels had chewed holes and it was a fire hazard. If you haven’t saved for taxes, for repairs, for maintenance-- where’s that money going to come from? You’re going to end up with water dripping through your ceiling; you’re going to end up with your house burning down because squirrels chewed through your wiring; you’re going to end up relying on window units and space heaters because you can’t afford to fix the CHA system.

We also invest in real estate as well, because we live in a poor town where many cannot afford to do all those things. So it’s full of crummy houses. We buy them for very little… and then we put in thousands of dollars and hundreds of hours of work in making them clean/safe/functional places to live. We rent each new place out… and every dime goes towards making the next place habitable. It’s a lot of work-- because guess what, each place needs maintenance, too. The other day ago, I had a tenant drive a stake through a gas line. I had to get the damaged gas line replaced. I’ve had to patch more roofs than you can shake a stick at this spring. I’ve had to deal with flea treatments because someone didn’t know how to take care of her puppy. I’ve had to rotoroot a drain. I have someone with a leaky sink drain. I need to replace an electrical outlet that shorted out. I need to get fill dirt scooped over some low spots in people’s yards to keep them from flooding.

 

[midori]

We’ve been doing this for nine years now. Glancing at our acquisitions-- not all of them have been renovated because we work at the pace of our budget-- 22% came from retiring ll’s looking to unload decrepit properties; 4% came from an out-of-town investor looking to unload a decrepit property; 9% came from heirs looking to cash out their inheritance; 17% came from people who needed to sell for various reasons (ie, moving, going to jail, etc); 4% is represented by something we already happened to own; and 44% came from foreclosures (mostly tax, but one bank).

Looking at the foreclosures, 30% were from the former owner falling off the planet; 20% were from the former owner’s death and the heirs not bothering to do anything to keep it; and 50% were from the former owner not being able to meet their financial obligations.

Seeing that we only started in 2010… guess why the market was flooded with foreclosures.

So, I’m used to picking up the pieces that other people have failed to hold on to. It’s what I’ve built my business on, and what my kids’ college depends on, and what our future retirement depends on. I’m not a predator— but I’m very, very used to what failed houses look like. And I wouldn’t wish a lot of these places on a dog, when I first get them, and I wonder who lets children live in such an environment. (No heat, no running water, hasn’t been cleaned in decades, feces all over the place, holes in the floor, etc.) If we didn’t go through all the effort, they’d only be fit for the bulldozer. But with each place we turn around— that’s one more decent unit of housing in our little town.

 

[sallybutler]

She should watch the “Adam Ruins Everything” episode on home ownership.

 

[Xystus]

What is the motivation of the effort to spin her words to make this program about skin color?

once again… it was Harris herself that mentioned a specific skin color. the only spin here is yours.