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Peter_J
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Exactly. Whenever people learn that I don’t support Donald Trump, I feel like they might be thinking “Oh, he must secretly like Hillary.”
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FollowChrist34
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I would say, in all honesty, that I cannot stand Trump, but I wouldn’t say I ‘can’t stand Cruz.’ I have a lot of respect for him. But I don’t think he is personable; he doesn’t draw people to him naturally; those who share his ideology and admire his lack of compromise are the core of his support. Historically, candidates like this do NOT have a capacity to unite parties, heal divisions, etc. My reservation about Cruz is that he will be polarizing, not just in this rather sad, hopeless fight over who is the GOP nominee, but this aspect of polarization will kill us in the general election. A bulls eye on the GOP’s forehead. The Trumpers go 3rd party; the moderates go Democrat.
Kasich is more personable, but he in turn alienates the conservative base, the Cruz/Trump supporters - just another ‘moderate.’ But at the same time he is too ‘conservative’ for much of mainstream Democratic leaning America. (see popular support for PP, gay marriage, etc.)
I cannot really see the GOP putting up any candidate that can get enough votes to overcome the Democratic advantage. My thinking on Kasich 3rd party is that conservatives are forced to choose between Kasich or Trump and Democrats have an alternative to Hillary, who is vulnerable on many levels and pretty polarizing in her own right. Not saying it would work.
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Finite
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I think the republican base is making a huge mistake not standing behind Kasich. I usually vote democrat, but Kasich is the one republican I feel could work across the aisle and isn’t bogged down by being an extreme conservative or extreme liberal. I think he would be a real threat to Clinton in a general election. I would consider voting for him over Clinton.
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simple_soul
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Are you referring to those who are trying to reconcile the good between both parties and build on that good as the Uniparty?
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FollowChrist34
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Thanks Finite! I have been informally polling Dems I know online and personally - hear this again and again. I am on to something here…I really am. We can’t wrestle the nomination from Trump (special attention please Peter J
) and give it to Cruz; we would have a revolution on our hands. The Trump as GOP nominee train has left the station. We need to put on our thinking caps about a NEW way to approach voters - steal a little of that Trump thunder - for the good (not bad) of the country…roll with this new ‘no rules’ world he has manipulated us all into. Give him a taste of his own medicine. 
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simple_soul
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I would sooner say our emotions are what determin elections more than money. Trump seems to be proving this. Don’t get me wrong. I have nothing against having emotions. I just beleive we need to decide what kind of emotions we want to let rule our lives.
Do we want love, compassion, respect and dignity and a willingness to take risks and possibly die for the sake of another to rule our lives. Or do we want anger, despair, bitterness, envy, gluttony, pride, or a lets-give-it-to-them because they had it coming mentality to rule our lives? In short what kind of a person do you want to be? Because the kind of person you are is going to govern the kind of person you want for a president.
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Finite
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Absolutely.Thanks Finite! I have been informally polling Dems I know online and personally - hear this again and again. I am on to something here…I really am. We can’t wrestle the nomination from Trump (special attention please Peter J
Again, I almost always tend to vote democrat and lean very far left on most social issues, but I feel like this election cycle has shown the extremes rise to prominence.
For example, I actually like Sanders. I think some (not all) of his ideas would be good for the country. But I don’t see those ideas ever seeing the light of day. No republican would work with him. He’s too far left.
Then you have Trump, who is a whole other kind of extreme. It’s as if he managed to make the racist, xenophobic group of voters (of who there are many) finally feel comfortable taking their misplaced anger and displaying it for the world to see. To Trump’s credit, that’s no easy feat, but if I were running for public office, those are not the kind of people I’d want rallying behind me. And boy do they rally. It’s terrifying. While I think many of those protestors from groups like “Black Lives Matter” have taken a worthy cause and mismanaged it out of control, I don’t think those people deserve to be pushed, shoved, punched, what have you. The man incites violence.
Kasich seems like the only adult from the republican side. I’m not the biggest Clinton supporter, but I’ll be voting for her over Cruz, and ESPECIALLY over Trump. It seems the voters have put Kasich at the kids table while propping Trump up to be the reasonable, obvious choice. It’s amazing how backwards it is.
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Peter_J
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But we might be able to keep him from wrestling it from us.
That’s from thehill.com/blogs/ballot-box/272170-poll-trump-loses-head-to-head-vs-cruz-rubio . It didn’t mention Kasich, but I imagine the result would be similar. Trump can be beaten one-on-one, but not two-on-one (just like Clinton can be beaten in the general election by one Republican, but not two). But that’s only if we can agree who should go up against Trump – Cruz or Kasich?
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FollowChrist34
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I know this is the new argument of the so-called GOP establishment, the ex-Rubio folks if you will. I am one of these people. I have come to realize that this won’t work. Not trying to be contrary, difficult, negative. I am trying to be helpful, believe it or not. What you are not seeing is how much damage this will do to the party: take down Trump, put up Cruz or Kasich - you alienate the Trumpers; don’t discount this. The Cruz and Kasich people get in a vicious war with each other too. It is enough to make you wonder if we are the party of Christians.
And the best part is the end of the story, we all unify behind Cruz or Kasich (no comment on Trumpers, the losing Cruz or Kasich voters in that battle). I think people are losing their perspicacity in the heat of battle, egos are taking over on both sides, Trump AND nonTrump. Neither Cruz or Kasich would work as nominee after such a bloodbath - much as I hate Trump, he deserves the nomination.I am just planting the 3rd party idea seed here…for when y’all realize above.
:thankyou:
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Peter_J
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It really is troubling. Even before Trump, for years in fact, I think that as President Obama became more and more intransigent, the Tea Partiers did too – we could debate whether the former caused the latter or was simply used as an excuse, but I suspect the answer lies somewhere in between.
And they weren’t just growing more anti-Obama. I frankly never fathomed, until this primary season, just how badly they wanted to punish the “Rhinos”, nor how many Senators they believed to be Rhinos.
But even if I had known all that, I surely never would have guessed how successfully Donald Trump would harness those emotions while drawing in some other types of Republicans (neither Joel Osteen nor Chris Christie, nor Jon Voigt, is anywhere near my idea of “Tea Partier”!) as well.
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simple_soul
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The thing is, I don’t hate Trump, and I so hope and pray I have not come off as hating him.I know this is the new argument of the so-called GOP establishment, the ex-Rubio folks if you will. I am one of these people. I have come to realize that this won’t work. Not trying to be contrary, difficult, negative. I am trying to be helpful, believe it or not. What you are not seeing is how much damage this will do to the party: take down Trump, put up Cruz or Kasich - you alienate the Trumpers; don’t discount this. The Cruz and Kasich people get in a vicious war with each other too. It is enough to make you wonder if we are the party of Christians.
I am just planting the 3rd party idea seed here…for when y’all realize above.
:thankyou:
I just believe there is more to life than just making as much money as I can and exploiting people to do it and he has done nothing to this date that has convinced me that he is not all about business and making money and I beleive a lot has been worked on to try and make this Nation not all about making money and using others to do it and we stand to loose a lot of ground in that area if he does become the next president. But I do believe in miracles. So maybe I’m totally wrong.
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FollowChrist34
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Good point - I also don’t hate Trump personally; I don’t know him. I do hate what he represents and what he is doing to the GOP and the country.
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Peter_J
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Here we agree.
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simple_soul
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I tend to agree. I just believe I am more heartbroken by it than hateful of it.
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grotto
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We have been floundering in deep waters for the last 7+ years. The ship’s captain abandoned the ship on day #1. We have lost most of what trust we had in the politicians we voted in to power not long after day#1. Those of us who have half a brain or better are disgusted, fed up, and angry. We will keep on rowing but the next captain better be worth his salt. :shamrock2:
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Joe_5859
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Yeah, I have gone back and forth between this thought and between thinking a two person race would be better. If Kasich stays in, the best they can hope for is preventing Trump from getting to 1237. Being a 2 person race gives Cruz a chance to hit 1237 on his own, but he’d have very little margin for error. At this point, it may well be better for there to be 3 candidates left.
That’s not been my experience. It’s completely anecdotal, but I have many Facebook friends who are very much opposed to Trump while also being huge supporters of Cruz.
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7_Sorrows
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well said!
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Peter_J
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I don’t think they could – many upcoming states are winner take all.
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JW55
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The beltway republicans do not appear interested in Kasich. He won Ohio which is what they did want. Now they appear to have thrown him to the curb. They look with miraculous hope that Paul Ryan will rescue them.
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queenofheartscv
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It’s easy to look at someone with adoration when they haven’t been tested in the fire that is the presidential election.
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