Kavanaugh endorsement rescinded

[JanetF]

He seemed defensive and very angry to me, almost combative. People don’t act that way when telling the truth.

They do when their lives are on the line. His professional life, and to some extent his personal life, are all on the line.

Frankly, i found both of them to be believable. My problem is the lack of proof of anything in his more recent history. If there is a pattern, then he deserves to not be confirmed. If there is no pattern of this behavior after college, then I’ve got to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that he’s matured and left his “partying” days behind him.

 

[Thorolfr]

Kavanaugh wouldn’t cause the court to have credibility problems except in the eyes of individuals who have no idea what constitutes credibility.

But Kavanaugh’s undisguised partisanship would cause the court to have credibility problems. During his initial hearing before the Senate, Kavanaugh said:

The Supreme Court must never be viewed as a partisan institution. The justices on the Supreme Court do not sit on opposite sides of an aisle. They do not caucus in separate rooms. If confirmed to the Court, I would be part of a team of nine, committed to deciding cases according to the Constitution and laws of the United States.

But who would believe him after his angry, partisan outburst last Thursday?

 

[ConstantLearner]

Frankly, i found both of them to be believable. My problem is the lack of proof of anything in his more recent history. If there is a pattern, then he deserves to not be confirmed. If there is no pattern of this behavior after college, then I’ve got to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume that he’s matured and left his “partying” days behind him.

I believe Ford for a number of reasons, but I have little problem with high school and college drinking. What I have a HUGE problem with is lying under oath, i.e., perjury, to the Senate. It’s not like there aren’t other conservatives out there. Presumably, Trump had a short list.

 

[Augustinian]

It’s not like there aren’t other conservatives out there

Sure, which conservative on the President’s list- that he has shown BTW- are Democrats willing to vote to confirm before the midterms?

 

[ConstantLearner]

But who would believe him after his angry, partisan outburst last Thursday?

Only someone very, very naive. I don’t think even Trump would believe him; Trump just wants him. And McConnell sure wouldn’t believe him.

 

[Augustinian]

But who would believe him after his angry, partisan outburst last Thursday?

Judge Kavanaugh’s outburst was against the attacks on his reputation, his life and his career, not “partisanship”.

 

[PetraG]

I believe Ford for a number of reasons, but I have little problem with high school and college drinking. What I have a HUGE problem with is lying under oath, i.e., perjury, to the Senate. It’s not like there aren’t other conservatives out there. Presumably, Trump had a short list.

If you believe Ford, you ought to have support for the legal drinking age and a huge problem with underage drinking that is not under the direct supervision of a parent who is answerable if they allow their child to drink to the point of intoxication.

Intoxication early in life is directly correlated with a higher risk of problem drinking and alcoholism in adulthood. More to the point, it makes sense to protect society from people who are already at a point in their lives when many of them are neurologically impaired in the decision-making department. If the accusations of Dr. Ford are true, that makes the case in very stark terms concerning why underage drinking is NOT harmless.

Having said that–yes, a person who made some very bad decisions in their youth, particularly at a juncture in national history when such behavior was commonly winked at, is not nearly so worrisome as a person who gets defensive to the point of belligerence when asked to explain the very bad decisions they made in their youth.

If even late in middle age you’re willing to lie–to anyone, let alone to a Senate committee!!–rather than admit your mistakes, you don’t belong on the Supreme Court.

 

[Rubee]

Do you honestly believe any of the 8 are non-partisan? If they are, why does everyone know the liberal ones from the conservative ones?

 

[PetraG]

Do you honestly believe any of the 8 are non-partisan? If they are, why does everyone know the liberal ones from the conservative ones?

It is hard to find a non-partisan citizen of the United States that anyone who has attained elected office could afford to find acceptable. Extreme partisanship is apparently what it takes to maintain the hope of re-election.

 

[PetraG]

What the heck is a “proven liar?” Would that mean anyone who has bent the truth just a little once in their entire life? Or told one clear falsehood?

Someone who has had a place on the bench and yet deliberately says something to a congressional committee that proves to have been false or clearly misleading would be an example of someone who has committed an unacceptably grave offense against the truth.

He knows the standard. He has personally enforced that standard. He has to meet that standard.

 

[ConstantLearner]

Extreme partisanship is apparently what it takes to maintain the hope of re-election.

I agree with that. The places Trump is holding rallies are places where support for him isn’t measured and thought out but rabid. Places where he can do no wrong.

 

[JanetF]

I believe Ford for a number of reasons, but I have little problem with high school and college drinking. What I have a HUGE problem with is lying under oath, i.e., perjury, to the Senate. It’s not like there aren’t other conservatives out there. Presumably, Trump had a short list

I must have missed where he was proven to have committed perjury

 

[PetraG]

I agree with that. The places Trump is holding rallies are places where support for him isn’t measured and thought out but rabid. Places where he can do no wrong.

Honestly, I think he was actually talking to that same base when he addressed the UN.

The President is the most bald-faced example of this trend, but I think that is all anyone in politics ever talks to. He didn’t invent the “dog whistle” speech, but he definitely uses it all of the time.

 

[ConstantLearner]

I must have missed where he was proven to have committed perjury

It’s in a news article I posted. Up some. Four or five articles together.

 

[PetraG]

I must have missed where he was proven to have committed perjury

Yes, that is the question the FBI is presumably addressing. It is not a settled matter.
Having said that, the Senators are not going to be held to the standard of a criminal court, but rather a standard of their own best judgment, which in the case of recommending someone for a lifetime appointment to the Supreme Court would have to err on the side of caution, I would think.

The most worrisome thing is how even caution has become a partisan matter. I cannot believe that all the Senators have independently assessed Kavanaugh and with the exception of a few moderate Republicans still in question have come independently to party-loyal findings 100% of the time.

 

[Rubee]

not nearly so worrisome as a person who gets defensive to the point of belligerence when asked to explain the very bad decisions they made in their youth.

I find this unfair. Judges are not robots. No one is expected to act ‘impartially’ in his own self-defense, not even a judge. That’s why they recuse themselves when the case is about them or people close to them. Judge Kavanaugh was not sitting as a judge in a case last week but as the subject of a hearing and recipient of an abusive smear campaign. It is insane to expect him to be ‘impartial’ towards his attackers! He is not Jesus Christ, for crying out loud. You guys are demanding he should be a martyr, not impartial.

 

[PetraG]

I find this unfair. Judges are not robots. No one is expected to act ‘fairly’ in his own self-defense, not even a judge. That’s why they recuse themselves when the case is about them or people close to them. Judge Kavanaugh was not sitting as a judge in a case last week but as the subject of a hearing and recipient of an abusive smear campaign. It is insane to expect him to be ‘impartial’ towards his attackers! He is not Jesus Christ, for crying out loud. You guys are demanding he should be a martyr, not impartial.

There is a reason for this saying: A lawyer who represents himself has an idiot for an attorney and a fool for a client.

I am saying that he has spent many years on the bench expecting attorneys to show him respect and maintain decorum no matter how angry they are at the situation. If he doesn’t have that level of self-control–and honestly, I don’t remember a nominee ever showing less self-control than he did–then he many not be the right person for a lifetime appointment to the Supreme Court.

 

[ConstantLearner]

I find this unfair. Judges are not robots. No one is expected to act ‘fairly’ in his own self-defense, not even a judge. That’s why they recuse themselves when the case is about them or people close to them. Judge Kavanaugh was not sitting as a judge in a case last week but as the subject of a hearing and recipient of an abusive smear campaign. It is insane to expect him to be ‘impartial’ towards his attackers! He is not Jesus Christ, for crying out loud. You guys are demanding he should be a martyr, not impartial.

Oh, come on! Judges are expected to be dignified and exhibit self-control. I can tell you it’s not that hard, from experience. I’m not a judge, but I testified for seven HOURS in a civil case in which I was the plaintiff. The defense attorney tried to attack me on every front, but I never even FELT rattled. It’s not that hard to keep your cool and your dignity and treat an adversary with respect UNLESS you are prone to belligerent outbursts in the first place.

 

[Rubee]

Lawyers are not their clients. Again you are drawing a comparison that is grossly unfair. No one is expected by any Western Legal system to be impartial in their own personal self-defense. That’s a martyr you’re requiring, not a judge. Perhaps the reason you have not witnessed that reaction is that no one has been treated this way in this process.

 

[Augustinian]

I think the Democrats really overplayed this Kavanaugh confirmation. They were really hoping not to have a vote at all and instead get President Trump to withdraw the nomination or have Kav withdraw.

This could get ugly for Red State Democrats in MO, WV, IN, ND, elsewhere who are facing the voters in November.

Avoiding a vote was a way for them to save face