Kavanaugh endorsement rescinded

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HarryStotle:
Judging people’s motives before all the facts are in may come back to bite you.
Maybe, but you seem not to understand that “all the facts” are not, and will never be, available. We have to make judgments based on the facts in front of us.
You seem to have no issue making judgements when all of the facts are not available, including making the judgement that they never will be available.

How do you know the facts “will never be” available?

That may be very premature.
 
He would remain a judge on the federal DC Court of Appeals. How is that “destroying his life?”
Not really. As someone who the Senate of the United States has decided is a sexual predator, a gang rapist who organizer Rape Train parties, he could hardly go back. There will be an effort to impeach him if the Democrats win the House next month anyhow, and he’s already lost lucrative gigs like the Harvard Law job.

His reputation is totally through, he would no longer have the respect as he will be assumed guilty.

Probably would move from the nation’s capital and write a book, travel to get his reputation back.
 
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1cthlctrth:
Lifesitenews
Now we’re talking reliable sources! Please.
I thought you pointed out, (and then scrubbed…)
We have to make judgments based on the facts in front of us.
Perhaps LifeSiteNews also makes judgements based upon the facts in front of them.

Perhaps, too, the facts that you or I or LifeSiteNews have access to are NOT the same, which is why our judgements happen also to not be the same.

Those you are judging as NOT “reliable sources” may just have a different set of facts from the set you happen to be working with.

That is why I think everyone, including you and LifeSiteNews ought to be listened to while you present all of your facts and LifeSiteNews presents all of its facts. Then we can compare which facts and which judgements based upon those varying sets of facts are most reliable.

Being unwilling to listen to a set of facts and the judgements based upon them merely because you don’t happen to agree with those judgements, and therefore call them unreliable, is hardly being open-minded or fair.

I am not keen on dismissing anyone as “not reliable” based merely on YOUR judgements and YOUR access to a limited set of facts. Understand?
 
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Why would Ford be telling the truth? Why not? What’s her motive? She explained why she came forward, and it made perfect sense. It had nothing to do with politics.
To stop a 5th conservative seat from being taken that would make conservative decisions being made, such as a reversal of Roe v Wade which is a primary concern for many people following these hearings closely.

Therefore it could either be she is telling the truth or lying based on motive.
She talked about the attack in 2012 to her husband and her therapist. She didn’t just manufacture it last July.
The mentioning to the therapist with documentation is evidence to suggest she was indeed sexually assaulted or abused at minimum, however to say it was specifically Kavanaugh that did it does not seem so since she does not mention it to the therapist who would have documentation about it. She claims she did mention the name to her husband, but her husband could be working with her interest, so this could be a lie as well.

Therefore it could be a truth or a lie about Kavanaugh specifically based on past documentation.
She insisted on two front doors because she didn’t want to feel closed in.
In fact this particular topic actually raises a lot of skepticism to her story. First there have been reports that, according to building permits and documentation, this particular remodel happened in 2008, which then brings the question “Why wait so long to bring up the issue in 2012?” That’s a lot of time to not explain why one would want a particular remodel.
Ontop of this I’m sure you have heard of the alleged ex-boyfriend letter that was released that would definitely show the opposite of her fear of having a single door.
However this is only an allegation, but if true, then it would show her claim to be false.

Therefore it could be either true or false, however very questionable, that she really did have a connection with the one door and the alleged incident based on the one-door issue.

So far, no good reasons to actively believe this happened.
 
Now for Kav.
Now let’s take a look at Kavanaugh: self-confessed drunk in high school. Numerous witnesses have testified he was often drunk in high school and college, and that when he was drunk he was agressive and belligerent.
Not all highschool boys that drank would go on raping sprees, I hope you know that. There have been numerous amounts of people that get drunk and not do anything sexual.

Therefore it could be true or false that his drunkeness points to this particular event happening.
He went to “parties” constantly. He went to “Beach Week” (look it up–and if you’re in the DC area, you know EXACTLY what it means.)
I would imagine this involves a beach? Which is not near the country club if I’m not mistaken. Furthermore this was more of a friend gathering than a party. Also considering most of the articles I find about “Beach Week” are particularly related in the context of Kavanaugh, I see that their accounts and testimonies would be about their own experience of Beach Week and have no way of actually validating whether or not these are true. Either way, if this were true and the event truly happened in Beach Week, bringing up the calendar would be against Kavanaugh’s interest and he would have no incentive bringing it forth as evidence.

Therefore it could either be true or false that this particular event happened based on his apparent youthful tendencies to be a party-goer.
He was a rich prep boy who was on the football team–not proof of guilt, but not exactly being in the church choir. Rich prep football boys don’t have a good reputation, esp. regarding girls.
You can easily be both, first of all. Second of all a generalization of football players (do you at least have statistical evidence?) do not amount to every single football players having a higher tendency to sexually assault a girl. It is hardly a description of the individual but rather an unrighteous judgement of the man based on his appearance of a football player (sound familiar?)

Therefore it could be either true or false that this happened based on extra-curricular activities.
He talks openly in his h.s. yearbook about “boofing,” “Devil’s Triangle,” and “FFFF.” He brags about being a “Renate alumni.”
I fail to see how yearbook inside jokes about farting, drinking game, and some friend’s potty mouth are relevant at all.

Therefore it could be either true or false that this happened based on yearbook jokes in highschool. (Because heaven forbid you take your yearbook writings lightly).
a rational person wouldn’t have any doubt who they would believe.
So far, with the presumption of innocence, it is still rational to believe Kavanaugh.
 
So you really think those thing meant what Kavanaugh said they meant? Want to buy a bridge? I have a very nice one for sale up in Brooklyn.
If your 17 year old boy says “I like Charizard,” would you find it at all rational to turn to urban dictionary to find out what he means by “Charizard” or would you find it rational to ask him himself what he means by “Charizard” (I would link what UD has to say about “Charizard” but it is way too vulgar, I trust you have the capability to do that search if you want to see how ridiculous it is to turn to urban dictionary for meanings).
 
How do you know the facts “ will never be ” available?
If there was a date and a location specified, Judge Kavanaugh’s calendar and other records could be consulted. Although in his entire calendar, his entire record, there is no mention at all of Rape Train parties or acquiring grain alcohol and quaalude for the events that are alleged.

As far as Ford’s testimony, looking at her computer can give a lot of information if she and Sen. Feinstein just cooked it up- the proof would be on the hard drive.
 
Even if the Urban Dictionary is accurate today, it doesn’t mean it is accurate for historical times like when all of this is supposed to have happened during the Reagan Administration.

Slang words were certainly different when I was a teen in Pittsburgh than they are today. And the slang my suburban cousins in Pittsburgh used was different than what we used in the inner city.
 
So you really think those thing meant what Kavanaugh said they meant?
I know you won’t want to hear this, but I suspect Kavanaugh was deliberately chosen by Trump in order to trap the Dems in their game of malicious takedown.

Trump would have carefully vetted any nominee he picked precisely because he expected this kind of behaviour from the Dems.

I also suspect Kavanaugh, Trump and the Repubs dug up and carefully went through his entire life back to and including high school (and before) precisely to be certain that nothing – and I mean nothing – would be found. What was it, seven FBI background checks? Kavanaugh would not have been nominated if there was anything. It also explains why Kavanaugh had his detailed calendars so readily available – he likely went through them in detail to jog his memory about anyone and anything that might surface from his past.

That means, if this is true, that Trump and the Repubs have an advantage – they know Ford has to be lying, although they can’t just come out and say that, yet.

You can bet there is a whole lot of background investigating going on right now – on Ford, on McLean, on their lawyers, on anyone who worked with McLean at the FBI and certain Dems. The next few weeks will be interesting. And just in time for the mid-terms.
 
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As far as Ford’s testimony, looking at her computer can give a lot of information if she and Sen. Feinstein just cooked it up- the proof would be on the hard drive.
And we can expect subpoenas.

I think (again, just a suspicion) the next few weeks will be interesting.

The facts are beginning to align.

So why wait this long and why the agonizing delay acting on the evidence? Stuff had to be said and stuff had to be done by the guilty parties in order to actually prove guilt.

At this point, I might be wrong. It is just a theory, but the alignment is there.
 
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HarryStotle:
How do you know the facts “ will never be ” available?
If there was a date and a location specified, Judge Kavanaugh’s calendar and other records could be consulted. Although in his entire calendar, his entire record, there is no mention at all of Rape Train parties or acquiring grain alcohol and quaalude for the events that are alleged.
Actually, there was a “pre-party” that fits the description and the timing of the get-together in Ford’s allegation.

The date is July 1, and the key word is ‘squi.’

Kavanaugh was questioned on this specifically, by Mitchell.
Rachel Mitchell, hired by the Republican majority of the Senate Judiciary Committee to navigate the questioning of Kavanaugh and Ford, pointed to one particular calendar entry that got some attention after the calendars came out. It read:

Tobin’s House — Workout / Go to Timmy’s for Skis w/ Judge, Tom, PJ, Bernie, Squi

The reference to “skis” is apparently to “brewskis,” or beers. The entry was July 1, a Thursday. Mitchell asked him about it.
MITCHELL: The entry says, and I quote, go to ‘Timmy’s for skis with Judge, Tom, P.J. Bernie and … Squi?’

KAVANAUGH: Squi. It’s a nickname.

MITCHELL: To what does this refer, and to whom?

KAVANAUGH: [after explaining the “Tobin’s House” part] It looks like we went over to Timmy’s. You want to know their last names, too? I’m happy to do it.

MITCHELL: If you could just identify: Is ‘Judge’ Mark Judge?

KAVANAUGH: It is. It’s Tim Gaudette, Mark Judge, Tom Kaine, P.J. Smyth, Bernie McCarthy, Chris Garrett.
Notice two things here. First, that “Squi” was in attendance at the party — someone who, we learned thanks to Mitchell’s questioning of Ford, was going out with Ford over the course of that summer.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/poli...y-point/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.d23dc7834585

There is also a whole lot here that might surface in the future, and at least one source that, I think, has put the pieces together correctly.
 
That might explain why they didn’t pick a judge more to the right (Mr. Kavanaugh is more of a centralist than the media and the Democratic Senators are admitting, as Senator Collins pointed out last night).
 
I fail to see how yearbook inside jokes about farting, drinking game, and some friend’s potty mouth are relevant at all.
If those are the definitions, they are not relevant. You’re right. But that’s not what they mean. “Boofing” is ingesting beer or drugs through your anus. It was featured in the recent movie “… Blockers.” Devil’s Triangle is a sexual threesome with two males and a female. “FFFF”–as everyone knows–is “Find’em, Feel’em, F…'em, Forget’em.” Whether or not he actually participated in these activities is irrelevant. The point is that by featuring them in his h.s. bio in his yearbook, he is showing that not only was he familiar with these terms (in high school!) but he to some degree approved of their message toward women. Can we “prove” that Kavanaugh was aware of these meanings? Of course not. If I define “apple” as a screwdriver, you can’t
“prove” that I really meant what everyone else means by “apple.”
So far, with the presumption of innocence, it is still rational to believe Kavanaugh.
“Presumption of innocence” is an American legal concept. A lot of very democratic and civilized countries (France, Italy…) don’t have it. And we don’t have it here. This is not a court of law, and Kavanaugh is not on trial. It’s a job interview. And I would not hire someone to work at Burger King who had been credibly accused of those charges, let alone the Supreme Court.

Motive:
To stop a 5th conservative seat from being taken that would make conservative decisions being made, such as a reversal of Roe v Wade which is a primary concern for many people following these hearings closely.
Really? Even though she came forward with the charges BEFORE Kavanaugh was the nominee? When he was simply a name on Trump’s list of possible nominees? Is Christine so naive and stupid that she thinks she can block ALL conservatives nominees? That’s absurd. She was only interested in blocking one nominee: Kavanaugh. We all know perfectly well that the Republicans are going to ram a ultra-conservative justice down our throats. Just not this one, please. That’s adding insult to injury.
 
I would imagine this involves a beach? Which is not near the country club if I’m not mistaken. Furthermore this was more of a friend gathering than a party. Also considering most of the articles I find about “Beach Week” are particularly related in the context of Kavanaugh, I see that their accounts and testimonies would be about their own experience of Beach Week and have no way of actually validating whether or not these are true. Either way, if this were true and the event truly happened in Beach Week
No one said this incident took place during Beach Week–in fact, just the opposite. During Beach Week, Kavanaugh would have been 100+ miles away, at Ocean City MD.

If you are really curious about Beach Week, all you have to do is watch the movie “The Graduates” (2008) about what happens at Ocean City MD during Beach Week. It’s notorious. A week of underage drinking and sex. Kavanaugh attended. It doesn’t “prove” anything, except that he wanted to put himself in that milieu. What happened to “Lead us not into temptation”? Would you let your son who just graduated from h.s. go?

As for sexual behavior at prep schools, take a look at an interesting book published 10 years ago about Milton Academy (Robert & Ted Kennedy are alumni) after they had a sensational sex scandal: “Restless Virgins: Love, Sex, and Survival in Prep School.” Teachers were doing nasty things, and the students were pretty nasty, too. It gives some context to the current issue.

It’s not necessary to “prove” Kavanaugh did anything. The question is this: Based on the preponderance of the facts we know (and yes, including “Beach Week” activities, prep school football players, use of crude terms in his yearbook, drunkenness, etc. etc.) whose story is more credible? And I think if you went to some place that had never heard of Kavanaugh and Supreme Court and laid out both sides of the story, I think 100% would come down in favor of Christine. That’s because her story is much more believable and likely.
 
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It’s not necessary to “prove” Kavanaugh did anything.
Its the American way of doing things, people here are presumed innocent until actually PROVEN guilty.

You can certainly disagree with that, but people really value their reputations, their families and their careers and that’s what Kavenaugh has on the line.here.
 
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Its the American way of doing things, people here are presumed innocent until actually PROVEN guilty.
Breathtaking. So that black kid who was shot by the policeman 16 times and killed was "presumed innocent until actually PROVEN guilty’? Are you kidding me? He was presumed guilty.

Here we have the famous conservative double standard: I’m going to believe X as long as it supports my case. When it doesn’t support my case, I am NOT going to believe X." Consistency? Out the window.

Our society in general (though not in the case of Kavanaugh, since he’s on the “right” (pun) side) presumes guilt. That’s why suspects who are arrested are led away in handcuffs! That’s not how you treat an innocent person! That’s how you treat a guilty person! Don’t you watch TV?
 
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Yes. Absolutely. If I go to my boss and say “So-and-so keeps grabbing my butt,” I expect him to do something about it. At the very least, question the other women–has it happened to them? Do they think the action would be out of character? Confront the perpetrator–most people aren’t good liars. Does he begin to fumble around with words? Or, a better tactic, lure him into conversation about what a hot number I am. See his reaction. Or have a longer talk with me–where did this happen? When? Has it happened before? etc. Am I making a credible complaint? Or the boss could hold a brief public meeting and say “Suzie here has accused Brett of fondling her. We have a strict policy against such things. Please report any such activities to me immediately if you see them or if you are a victim. We will take action.” Or any of a host of things. Would you just listen to the woman and immediately go off the fire the guy? Maybe–depends on what I know about the two people.
This is actually not the way a complaint should be handled.
  • A manager can’t question other women because the assumption is that the complaint is confidential
  • A manager doesn’t ‘confront’ the alleged perpetrator; the manager informs him of the complaint and asks to hear his version.
  • Trained interrogators listen for liars–this is not in the skill set of an untrained manager.
  • Luring an alleged perpetrator into a conversation will probably a) get the manager in legal trouble, b) cost the manager his/her job, and c) ruin any case the company may have had against the alleged perpetrator.
*“Suzie here has accused Brett of fondling her. We have a strict policy against such things.” The manager hits the unemployment line and is the defendant in a lawsuit before the next coffee break.
 
This is actually not the way a complaint should be handled
I didn’t say it was. Read what I said, not what YOU THINK I SHOULD HAVE SAID. I said “I expect him to do something about it.” Then I gave examples of what I personally would expect, not what actually happens, or what YOU THINK is “not the way a complaint should be handled.”
 
The other key thing that no one else seems to have considered is this: They are BOTH telling the truth as they know it.

For Christine, this was a traumatic experience. She thought she was going to be raped, possibly killed.

For Brett, this was just another party in a long, long string of drunken parties. For all we know he could have jumped on one or several girls at every party he went to. It was relatively meaningless to him: just a bit of harmless fun. He didn’t even get her clothes off, let alone rape her. Why would he have any memory of it if this was just one in a long string of assaults–which to him weren’t assaults at all, just “fun”? So when he said “I didn’t do that” he’s simply giving what he thinks is the truth. Of course there is always the possibility that he really DOES remember and that he’s lying to protect himself. Oh, wait, that’s just not possible in Trump World, is it?
 
herefore it could be true or false that his drunkeness points to this particular event happening.
Sure it could be true or false. Anything COULD be true or false. That’s not the point. The point is that this sort of thing is much more likely if you’re dealing with “an aggressive and belligerent” drunk like Kavanaugh. This is a guy who was in a bar fight–where police were called–in his junior year at Yale. A fine young man indeed.
 
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