Key Iran General Soleimani killed in Iraq: reports - BBC

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Planning an attack is not doing an attack. Preemptive war is against Catholic teaching. The Trump administration could have made moves to diplomatically resolve this.
They tried to set the embassy on fire and storm it, and that’s not an attack? What world do you live in. Look at what they have been doing leading up to the attack on the embassy. One dead US citizen.

The Church has consistently asserted that some evils or threats are so grave that they merit a vigorous armed response. It’s called just-war-theory.
 
One dead US citizen.
That was not done by the demonstrators.
The Church has consistently asserted that some evils or threats are so grave that they merit a vigorous armed response. It’s called just-war-theory.
In just war theory, war is a last resort. There are many avenues to resolution not utilized by Trump.
 
That was not done by the demonstrators.
Demonstrators? Ha. You mean the militias right, who were given the order by Soleimani, who were backed by Iran? The Iran backed group who did kill a US Citizen…
In just war theory, war is a last resort. There are many avenues to resolution not utilized by Trump.
Really? There are many avenues with terrorists and for those actively plotting to kills US citizens and many others? They are a terrorists group for a reason. Last time I checked, there is no active war.
 
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During the Second World War, there was considerable debate among the Allies about the French Resistance assassinating French collaborators and German officers, in part because there were reprisals that killed civilians, and in part because of deep concerns about the ramifications of Allies, either tacitly or openly backing extrajudicial killings in Vichy France. At one point de Gaulle even openly called for elements of the French Resistance to stop the assassinations, since killing a few German officers, even high ranking ones, wasn’t going to materially change the course of the war, and the risks to other French citizens were high.

So we have in fact been down this road before. Iran isn’t ISIS, where killing a few top commanders is going to do significant damage to their ability to make war and project force. Soelimani has lieutenants, some which doubtless he mentored and trained, and so I cannot imagine this making any material difference to Iran’s strategy. It will certainly harden even more centrist elements in Iran and Shi’ite Iraq against the US, and one questions whether making Soleimani a martyr was the wisest of strategies, seeing as there is likely little to gain from it other than giving Iran a bit of a black eye.
 
surely there can be little doubt that Soleimani got what he deserved.
Foreign policy is not undertaken to “give people what they deserve,” it is undertaken to advance US interests. It has been the opinion of several analysts, more sober minded than the president, that assassinating this leader would not be in the US’ interests.
Indeed, as with many decisions this president makes, it looks to be much more in Russia’s interests.
The timeline so far:
  • Putin announces he will violate sanctions by selling arms to Iran.
  • Putin meets with Trump to discuss “terrorism”.
  • Trump attacks a head of the Iranian military “because he’s a terrorist”.
Coming soon: Iran buys a bunch of Russian weapons
 
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Look at Khashoggi, look at a number of assassinations that show up in the news allegedly done by other countries whom I will not mention. It’s often just shooting someone in the street or in the park. This was rather a high-profile way to do this.

On the other hand, I read whatever I can, the man allegedly had a lot of victims, maybe in these cities in Syria as well I am reading, Idlib, Afrin and ftr, we are talking about bombs and maybe even gassing people. And of course other victims include coalition and US soldiers, so I’m finding a very real balance here of pros and cons.
 
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Soelimani has lieutenants, some which doubtless he mentored and trained,
They’ll need to go too, then. Plenty of these bad boys to deploy.
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Soelimani has lieutenants, some which doubtless he mentored and trained,
They’ll need to go too, then. Plenty of these bad boys to deploy.
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Now you’re pretty much talking about declaring war on Iran. And are you ready for the threats to Iranian civilians, Iraqi civilians, US military personnel and US civilians, as well as the threats to other allied nations who may be assisting the US?

This isn’t a course that leads to peace, this is a course that leads to ever mounting conflict and ever more casualties, an to what end?
 
The permanent destruction of the terrorist government of Iran and freedom for the Iranian people. Whatever it takes.
 
The permanent destruction of the terrorist government of Iran and freedom for the Iranian people. Whatever it takes.
So you’re advocating for a military campaign directly against Iran. Iran is not Iraq. It has a strong and organized military that is far more hardened than Hussein’s regime ever was. It’s certainly possible, but the cost in lives to the people you claim you want to free would be frightful. An air campaign would certainly do massive damage, but to do it properly would mean a massive ground invasion that would have to take on hundreds of thousands of Iranian troops, reserves, and various other paramilitary groups.

Then you would have to contend with Moscow, who would not look at all kindly on toppling the Iranian regime. You would look at proxy wars springing up all over the place. You’re probably talking about a multi-year campaign that, even if the other regional powers stand aside, would make the Second Gulf War and the aftermath look like a walk in the park. And I have a feeling that other than the Saudis and Israelis, America would have few allies. The Brits and other European powers wouldn’t get involved in this, and even if some did get involved, it would be token forces more to appease the White House.

And then what? Another imposed Iranian regime like the CIA did when they toppled Mossadeq in 1953 and reinstalled the Shah? Heck, the larger part of the reason that Iran is as anti-American as it is is because of the 1953 coup, and the Shah’s government didn’t last thirty years. The new US-backed government would have to contend with the same problems, and would need US backing for decades just to prevent itself from falling victim to another attack.

Believe me, what the Ayatollahs want is a conflict with the US. If anything will shut down reformist elements in Iran, it’s a war, either openly declared, or even more limited assassinations.
 
The one thing the Iranian regime can’t afford to lose is the ability to refine oil and sell it.

When you hear “Iran is the leading state sponsor of terrorism” the question is who is the man leading that effort. It was Soleimani.
 
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Yes, I know. Actually thinking about ramifications and strategy is hard work. Better to just shoot things.
 
Believe me, what the Ayatollahs want is a conflict with the US. If anything will shut down reformist elements in Iran, it’s a war, either openly declared, or even more limited assassinations
Agreed with all of your statement. The Iranian regime has probably been goading the USA into a conflict. The oil refinery in Saudi Arabia,drone-bombed and so on.

Good to see your postings on these matters.
 
This isn’t a course that leads to peace, this is a course that leads to ever mounting conflict and ever more casualties, an to what end?
More profit for the military industrial complex and more misery, sickness, death and poverty for the innocent children and other civilians caught in the bombing raids.
 
Whatever happens, it’s all part of God’s providence. And the end is foretold. Dies irae!
 
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I have mixed feelings about this one. Suleimani was a bad guy, no doubt, and the question surely has to be asked: what the heck was he doing there so close to the assault on the US Embassy? So I’m not real sorry to see him go. On the other hand, there is a long history of false flags out there. So grains of salt aplenty over the reports that Suleimani was there to instigate a coup in Iraq along with another attempt to take over the US Embassy. Neocons just eat that stuff up all day long.

On Trump’s end, he was placed in a tight spot. He hasn’t been interested in escalating previous incidents, but it is fairly clear he was never going to permit the embassy attack to turn into a repeat of the 1979 embassy crisis in Tehran. The Iranian leadership may have thought Trump was a pushover since Trump wasn’t escalating over previous incidents. A fact that emboldened Khamanei to taunt Trump over Twitter a day or two ago. So Trump sent the message: I’m not Carter. Hopefully the Iranians got that loud and clear; they will have to respond but maybe that response will be a measured one and the two sides can stand down.

Obama fans have nothing to say here: Obama and Kerry enabled this guy. Not to mention their own failed neocon escapades for which we are still paying the price. Bush II fans have nothing to say either, that Administration flat out lied to get us into Iraq in the first place.

My fondest wish would be for Trump to take this small victory and call it a day in Iraq, just get the heck out, let them clean up their own messes. Unfornately not going to happen as long as the US forces are being used as the cat’s paw by Israel and KSA. That is definitely a beef I have with Trump, those countries may be allies, but they are not our friends. We’re serving their interests, they aren’t serving ours.
 
Better to come to Jesus. For the sake of your own immortal soul. 🙏
 
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