Kicked out of my pew!

[JadeStarr]

And I couldn’t disagree with you more. I think the problem with our society is that too many people are too aggressive and confrontational and think every single situation is a chance for them assert themselves whenever they feel slighted over the simpliest of things. You have to pick your battles, but being confrontational over a pew? Not one that I would choose to fight.

What WOULD you fight over? If you don’t respect yourself then why should anyone else
respect you? WHY would you have moved? Are you afraid to speak out in self defense or
do you consider the person ordering you around somehow superior to you?
I prefer passion over apathy any day.

 

[ElizabethPH]

Unfortunately, she is definitely not mentally ill. She socializes with her older friends after Mass before driving home (alone). Most likely she isn’t mentally ill I would guess based on that behaviour. Probably a bit old and set in her ways but I don’t think as far as mentally ill

Well wait a minute. You are being a bit young and set in your ways. You were being just as adamant to keep your seat as she was in securing it for herself. Me thinks you are beginning to sound a little age discriminate.

 

[frenchbeatle]

I had something similar happen to me at daily Mass a few weeks ago. The church is pretty big, and only about half full for noon Mass, and I do have a spot I like to sit in (it is near the end of the pew). I had been there for about 5-10 minutes when this woman moves to sit next to me. Since I’m sitting at the end, I have to scoot down the pew for her to sit down. I looked around, and again noticed that the church was only half full, with plenty of spots near the ends of pews. Why did she make me move over to sit THERE? Who knows, but it was pretty weird. People can be strange.

 

[JRKH]

Alright fine, I’ll concede every last point. And guess what? BIG DEAL? This is the “problem with society” that everyone complains about. No one ever can just let something go. In the cities this is how people get shot (I’ve burried a few “I’m gonna make a stand over a stupid issue” people). In the suburbs this is how fights happen (I’ve been called to be a character reference for people in court over sillyness). The lady was rude, get over it. Be the more mature and adult person and just move and let it go. For the love of all that is holy, its just a seat.
If your life comes down to making a stand and a scene over a seat in church then your life is in pretty bad shape. Pitty the poor woman and move on in life.

In all seriousness this thread sounds like a bunch of chldren shouting, “He started it!”

 

[JRKH]

If I had confronted her, I guarantee she’d learn a lesson, all right.

I’m a little old lady too, but I have a cane.

Miz

But probably NOT the lesson you would hope she would learn (or the one that maybe you both need to understand better).

Peace
James

 

[Advocatus_Fidei]

I had something similar happen to me at daily Mass a few weeks ago. The church is pretty big, and only about half full for noon Mass, and I do have a spot I like to sit in (it is near the end of the pew). I had been there for about 5-10 minutes when this woman moves to sit next to me. Since I’m sitting at the end, I have to scoot down the pew for her to sit down. I looked around, and again noticed that the church was only half full, with plenty of spots near the ends of pews. Why did she make me move over to sit THERE? Who knows, but it was pretty weird. People can be strange.

Maybe you have an admirer

 

[PatriceA]

What WOULD you fight over? If you don’t respect yourself then why should anyone else
respect you? WHY would you have moved? Are you afraid to speak out in self defense or
do you consider the person ordering you around somehow superior to you?
I prefer passion over apathy any day.

Its not worth the anger right before mass and the Eucharist to be so confrontational. I am sitting in a pew, preparing myself to be in the best state of grace to receive Jesus and being so aggressive over a seat is not the right frame of mind I would want to be in for mass. I would be upset, yes, over the situation, but it does me nor the other person any good to get angry at that particular point in time and place.

There are plenty of other situations to choose passion over apathy, such as the fight over abortion, making a stand for the abused, volunteering at a crisis center, etc. But over a pew? That’s just silly.

 

[JadeStarr]

Its not worth the anger right before mass and the Eucharist to be so confrontational. I am sitting in a pew, preparing myself to be in the best state of grace to receive Jesus and being so aggressive over a seat is not the right frame of mind I would want to be in for mass. I would be upset, yes, over the situation, but it does me nor the other person any good to get angry at that particular point in time and place.

There are plenty of other situations to choose passion over apathy, such as the fight over abortion, making a stand for the abused, volunteering at a crisis center, etc. But over a pew? That’s just silly.

People are different, if you have some passion that’s a good thing. Obviously you would be willing to move when told to do so. I would not move.

 

[canadianguy1143]

Hi Newstheman. This has been an excellent thread again as it reveals more about the posters here than about your situation.

I stand by what I said. The key bit of information that seems to be lost here is that there was 5 people in a church that holds 250. If the church was packed and there was just one empty seat at the edge of row then that might be different.

Catharina, I suspect that you would like to tell newstheman that he is wrong although you can’t so you attack his grammar. Pathetic. It is his pew in that instance because he was there first for the mass. Its generally understood that seating is on a first come first get basis. To nitpick is juvenile of you.

Advocatus Fidei, newstheman did not commit any sin with what he did. While I agree that the old lady is way out of line, it doesn’t rise to the level of sin on HIS part.

Newstheman, as for what you want to do next week, I would listen to your conscience and if you think you want to sit in that seat again, I would get a witness because:

1. It’s not too late to correct her.
2. Someone said what if a person who is thinking of becoming a Catholic, comes to seat in her seat, would be left with a real bad impression about Catholics.

 

[NewsTheMan]

Canadian guy, thanks for that, I was begining to lose hope on my own thread!

Helpful post is helpful

I think next week I might or might not sit there - I don’t want to make a decision now and pre-meditate it all week if that makes sense. If I sit there and she happens to rudely tell me to move again, I trust the Spirit will help me act in the best possible manner. If I don’t sit there, then there is nothing to it

 

[Pug]

To those who would move for her, what if it wasn’t a sixty year old woman? What if it was a 16 year old person, or some other gender?

 

[Stylites]

What a great blessing to have someone help expose and bring anger and resentment and pride to the surface so that it can be ferreted out and dealt with before it is too late to do so!

.

 

[JRKH]

Pretty darn amazing - 86 posts so are - 6 pages - and in just a few hours.
And about what???
Whether we should “give in” to a cranky old lady over a spot in Church…Amazing.

Whatever Happened to “Christian Love”,

“turn the other cheek”, (Mt 5:39)
“Do unto others as you would have them do unto you”.
“If any one would sue you and take your coat, let him have your cloak as well…”(Mt 5:40)
“Do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you …”(Mt 5:44)
The
“every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment…”(Mt 5:22)

In fact perhaps the OP (and a few others) should take time today to read through ALL of Mt 5 and then compare how they would choose to respond to how Christ would wish them to respond.

Remember that this is NOT about how the lady acted and any sin she incurred, rather it is about how the OP responded and any sin that he/she incurred.

Peace
James

 

[PatriceA]

Canadian guy, thanks for that, I was begining to lose hope on my own thread!

Helpful post is helpful

I think next week I might or might not sit there - I don’t want to make a decision now and pre-meditate it all week if that makes sense. If I sit there and she happens to rudely tell me to move again, I trust the Spirit will help me act in the best possible manner. If I don’t sit there, then there is nothing to it

You gave yourself the best advice really. Pray to the Holy Spirit. If the situation ever presents itself again, you will be provided with the wisdom for how to handle it best.

 

[NewsTheMan]

Agreed with Pug. What if it was a ten year old? A thirty year old? A teenager? So much for my “old person” prejudice.

I understand turning the other cheek etc. Not that it in any way justifies any supposed evil or sinful behaviour, but perhaps she could do with reading that too. I would never march up to someone in the middle of the Rosary in a virtually empty Church and demand they move. Not in a million years and not to my greatest enemy and especially not in Church. I would be too embarrassed if anything.

 

[canadianguy1143]

Pretty darn amazing - 86 posts so are - 6 pages - and in just a few hours.
And about what???
Whether we should “give in” to a cranky old lady over a spot in Church…Amazing.

Whatever Happened to “Christian Love”,

“turn the other cheek”, (Mt 5:39)
“Do unto others as you would have them do unto you”.
“If any one would sue you and take your coat, let him have your cloak as well…”(Mt 5:40)
“Do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you …”(Mt 5:44)
The
“every one who is angry with his brother shall be liable to judgment…”(Mt 5:22)

In fact perhaps the OP (and a few others) should take time today to read through ALL of Mt 5 and then compare how they would choose to respond to how Christ would wish them to respond.

Remember that this is NOT about how the lady acted and any sin she incurred, rather it is about how the OP responded and any sin that he/she incurred.

Peace
James

You have no right to say that the OP incurred any sin. There was no sin on his part. As for the “turn the other cheek” we are not required to give in to rudeness. In fact we have the spiritual works of mercy and that is to admonish the sinners (all of us including the lady) and instructing the ignorant.

This thread is about the lady as that is the privilege of the OP in starting this thread. To excuse rudeness due to older age, is ridiculous. There is no second set of 10 commandments for old people and the rest of us.

 

[JRKH]

To those who would move for her, what if it wasn’t a sixty year old woman? What if it was a 16 year old person, or some other gender?

I’d still move… It’s just not worth disturbing the peace of God’s house over.

What a great blessing to have someone help expose and bring anger and resentment and pride to the surface so that it can be ferreted out and dealt with before it is too late to do so!

Interesting thought. A number of things I’ve read and heard about great saints show that they give thanks to God for “difficult people” so that they themselves might grow in holiness by showing charity to these others.

Peace
James

 

[JRKH]

You have no right to say that the OP incurred any sin. There was no sin on his part. As for the “turn the other cheek” we are not required to give in to rudeness. In fact we have the spiritual works of mercy and that is to admonish the sinners (all of us including the lady) and instructing the ignorant.

Forgive me if it seemed that I was accusing or judging. such was not my intent.
I should have more properly said, "…rather it is about how the OP responded and any sin that he/she might have incurred.
On the other side of that coin, you have no right to say that no sin was incurred. If he grew angry with this woman, and the OP seems to indicate that he did, then he is “liable to judgement”…Sounds like sin to me. But I won’t judge that. I’ll leave that to the OP and his confessor.

Interesting that of the quotes provided you only addressed the one about turning the other Cheek… and ignored that we are to give more than is demanded of us and to do good to those who hate us…

Yes we do have the responsibility to admonish the ignorant. There is also the time and place for such admonishments. Such admonishments need to be Christian and Loving.

This thread is about the lady as that is the privilege of the OP in starting this thread. To excuse rudeness due to older age, is ridiculous. There is no second set of 10 commandments for old people and the rest of us.

Since the lady in question is not likely to be reading this thread, I’d say the thread is much more about the OP and those responding to the OP than it is about the rude lady.
You are right there is no “second set of 10 commandments” There is also not “proviso” about rudeness in “turn the other cheek”, even though you would like there to be…

Peace
James

 

[Stylites]

Here’s the ideal response:

[tap-tap] You’re roused from your prayers. “Move up.”

You politely and silently hold up your rosary to show her, and turn back to your prayers. When finished, you see she is still standing there, and you give her your seat and go sit in any other empty pew. After Mass you try to find her to ask her why she felt so compelled to interrupt your prayers.

.

 

[NewsTheMan]

Good idea stylites

Well, its evening here and I think I will attend evening Mass. Wish me luck - I hope nobody kicks me out the (not my ) pew like this morning