Killing Animals for "Sport"

[Marfran]

A case can be made that it is ethical to hunt to feed oneself. A case can be made that is ethical to hunt as a part of “conservation,” though I do not agree with “conservation” mythology, and feel that we have other means to the same end.

What other means to the same end?

And what would be a solution to the overpopulation of deer, for instance?

If they are not culled, they will die of starvation.
The forests are not repleninshing themselves, the deer eat all the seedlings.
If they are relocated, a lot die from the relocation.

They have become a threat to humans and property.

Other than regulated hunts, what is your means to the same end?

Discussing “conservation” methodology would perhaps make a good thread. I have been advised to stay “on topic” by several posters–our topic being killing for “sport” and the “game” of it–killing for personal satisfaction and evidence of skill/prowess as opposed to hunting for food or wildlife management.

Actually I started this thread as an offshoot of another thread that had gone off topic, and several people requested a new thread with a different focus.

I can start a new thread if you like, or one of you can do that too.

 

[vz71]

Let’s be honest.

 

[Sean_Boyle]

Just how does one impose their will on others??? Let’s be honest. Topics for discussion are just that–topics for discussion. Everyone has an opinion and a perspective and everyone shares freely here. What would be your motivation to post in a thread, which of course you have no obligation to do so, and claim that someone posting their opinion is imposing their will on others? Again, short of waterboarding, or chopping off fingers, just how to you impose your will on a topic being discussed???

You have stated in various ways that hunting is opposed to Church teaching. A broad statement of opinion that overreaches into the point of misleading some of the faithful that are here to learn about the faith.

When you say the Catechism states this, and throw your interpretation in as part of the statement that is imposing your will on the unlearn regarding the faith.

 

[Marfran]

Your statement points to the fact that you only see things from your point of view…

What is your favorite food to eat or favorite drink?

Do you need to eat it and relish it so?

Is there undue human suffering or animal suffering to obtain that favorite food? The answer is yes to both yet you persist in craving that food item, when the world would be better off or at least a if portion of the earth wasn’t used to provide you with your favorite food, whatever it is.

Is that clearer now?

Now you gave this response to another poster. I would like to point out that we all see the world through our own eyes (point of view, vantage point).

I would also point out that the poster that you are asking what is their favorite food? makes a conscious effort to avoid all products, food and otherwise that have resulted from human and animal suffering. Many people today do not consider how their food came to their table, but having been in many threads with this poster I can assure you that she does.

Now back to our discussion…

 

[Eric_Hilbert]

Let’s keep the discussion civil and adult please.

 

[Marfran]

You have stated in various ways that hunting is opposed to Church teaching. A broad statement of opinion that overreaches into the point of misleading some of the faithful that are here to learn about the faith.

When you say the Catechism states this, and throw your interpretation in as part of the statement that is imposing your will on the unlearn regarding the faith.

I have not stated that the Church says anything about hunting per se. The Church does make some very serious, strong statements about animals found in the Catechism. The CCC says that we should treat animals kindly and we are reminded of saints like St. Francis and Saint Philip Neri. We are also told that we are not to cause animals to suffer and die needlessly. If you are a hunter, may you ignore these teachings? Do they not apply to hunters?

 

[CWBetts]

I have not stated that the Church says anything about hunting per se. The Church does make some very serious, strong statements about animals found in the Catechism. The CCC says that we should treat animals kindly and we are reminded of saints like St. Francis and Saint Philip Neri. We are also told that we are not to cause animals to suffer and die needlessly. If you are a hunter, may you ignore these teachings? Do they not apply to hunters?

I know many hunters personally. I do not know of any of them who do not take personal responsibility to track and kill any that they have wounded. Hunters actually prefer a quick kill–it saves them having to track. Wounding an animal, and then not tracking it to finish the kill is immoral, unethical, and depending in the state, illegal. So please stop painting hunters as cruel barbarians. The vast majority are responsible conservationists.

 

[Marfran]

I know many hunters personally. I do not know of any of them who do not take personal responsibility to track and kill any that they have wounded. Hunters actually prefer a quick kill–it saves them having to track. Wounding an animal, and then not tracking it to finish the kill is immoral, unethical, and depending in the state, illegal. So please stop painting hunters as cruel barbarians. The vast majority are responsible conservationists.

Apparently you missed reading the bulk of the posts. That is understandable–this thread has gotten very long. Please supply the quote you are referring to. The discussion is about hunting for “sport” and for the “game” of it. Most specifically “canned hunts” and hunting exotic animals purposefully bred to be trophy hunted.

I think that a distinction has been made here on “intent,” though many posters are preferring to talk about hunting for food and conservation management.

I have probably patched up and/or euthanized more wounded animals than the hunters on this thread have killed, so I can assure you that many animals suffer tremendously, many of them escape severely wounded, and many animals are shot and wounded out of season–and are often not even legal to hunt. (And the illegality of it all doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.)

So you say that you know many hunters personally. Do they participate in “canned hunts”? Do they kill exotics for the “game” of it? Because that is the focus of this thread.

 

[Marfran]

So please stop painting hunters as cruel barbarians. The vast majority are responsible conservationists.

Killing an animal in a “canned hunt” can be painted as conservation? Purposefully breeding exotic animals for “canned hunts” is conservation? Do you belong to the Safari Club?

Again, the topic is killing animals for “sport” and the “game” of it.

 

[Indyann]

Killing an animal in a “canned hunt” can be painted as conservation? Purposefully breeding exotic animals for “canned hunts” is conservation? Do you belong to the Safari Club?

Again, the topic is killing animals for “sport” and the “game” of it.

Well, you sure took the long road around the mountain to reveal YOUR target!

 

[Sean_Boyle]

I have not stated that the Church says anything about hunting per se. The Church does make some very serious, strong statements about animals found in the Catechism. The CCC says that we should treat animals kindly and we are reminded of saints like St. Francis and Saint Philip Neri. We are also told that we are not to cause animals to suffer and die needlessly. If you are a hunter, may you ignore these teachings? Do they not apply to hunters?

The CCC also state in 2417 “God entrusted animals to the stewardship of those whom he created in his own image. Hence it is legitimate to use animals for food and clothing.” Your opinion on a part of the CCC seems to be in conflict with other parts of both scripture and CCC. Which is truth?! It can’t be both.

 

[Marfran]

Well, you sure took the long road around the mountain to reveal YOUR target!

I didn’t take the long road. It is clearly stated in the OP. Killing animals for sport, for the game of it. Everytime I try to re-direct the thread to the target it goes off on a tangent. It seems that the topic of hunting has a lot of depth, and there are many people that want to discuss it, and want to discuss various aspects of it.

I’d be more interested in what people have to say about killing animals, such as exotic ones, for the purpose of a game and trophy. Killing just to hang a big cat head on your wall. But I can see that the topic of hunting has many corollaries, and people want to talk about other aspects.

 

[Marfran]

Marfran, will you please answer my question (post 338) -Thank you.

Hopefully this got your attention -it’s the fourth time I’ve asked

Yes, I did. Post 369.

BTW: We have so many asides and corollaries here. What do you hunters and non-hunters want to discuss the most??? No one seems to care about the “canned hunts.” Any other hunting topic/aspect you’d all like to tackle? Hunters do you feel misunderstood by the non-hunters? Non-hunters: Any specific issue that you want to see as a topic?

 

[Newbie2]

Yes, I did. Post 369.

BTW: We have so many asides and corollaries here. What do you hunters and non-hunters want to discuss the most??? No one seems to care about the “canned hunts.” Any other hunting topic/aspect you’d all like to tackle? Hunters do you feel misunderstood by the non-hunters? Non-hunters: Any specific issue that you want to see as a topic?

I think this topic has played itself out, M.

There seem to be two major POVs, those that oppose hunting and those that don’t, but both seem to agree that cruelty in a hunting setting (i.e. someone trying to bring down a bear with a .22 instead of a quick, effective, well-placed shot with a weapon capable of making an quick or instantaneous kill) is immoral.

 

[Indyann]

I didn’t take the long road. It is clearly stated in the OP. Killing animals for sport, for the game of it. Everytime I try to re-direct the thread to the target it goes off on a tangent. It seems that the topic of hunting has a lot of depth, and there are many people that want to discuss it, and want to discuss various aspects of it.

I’d be more interested in what people have to say about killing animals, such as exotic ones, for the purpose of a game and trophy. Killing just to hang a big cat head on your wall. But I can see that the topic of hunting has many corollaries, and people want to talk about other aspects.

Sorry, but you did not state anything about “exotic” animals or “canned hunts” in your OP.

Perhaps your definition of “game” is different depending on what part of the country you are in.

In the Midwest, we refer to “game” as any animal or bird that lives in the wild and approved to be hunted.

 

[Marfran]

In the Midwest, we refer to “game” as any animal or bird that lives in the wild and approved to be hunted.

That would be called a double entendre.

 

[TOP]

I didn’t take the long road. It is clearly stated in the OP. Killing animals for sport, for the game of it. Everytime I try to re-direct the thread to the target it goes off on a tangent. It seems that the topic of hunting has a lot of depth, and there are many people that want to discuss it, and want to discuss various aspects of it.

I’d be more interested in what people have to say about killing animals, such as exotic ones, for the purpose of a game and trophy. Killing just to hang a big cat head on your wall. But I can see that the topic of hunting has many corollaries, and people want to talk about other aspects.

You have made the mistake of relating the killing animals for sport to be hunting and inject the word “hunting” in every example of immoral killings. What do you expect?

 

[Marfran]

You have made the mistake of relating the killing animals for sport to be hunting and inject the word “hunting” in every example of immoral killings. What do you expect?

What do you call going on a Safari Club hunt? What do you call “canned” hunting, if not hunting for the “sport” or “game” of it? You can also hunt deer for a variety of reasons. And you can hunt them for the same reasons that you would in a “canned” hunt. For the thrill and for ego of trophy, as opposed to food or conservation.

 

[Marfran]

Killing animals for the “sport” or “game” of it. Is this a misnomer?? Sportsmen hunting for “sport” or for the “game” of it? Does the very term “sportsmen” give the wrong impression? Can hunters killing exotic animals in “canned hunts” be grouped with deer hunters culling populations for conservation???

 

[CWBetts]

Apparently you missed reading the bulk of the posts. That is understandable–this thread has gotten very long. Please supply the quote you are referring to. The discussion is about hunting for “sport” and for the “game” of it. Most specifically “canned hunts” and hunting exotic animals purposefully bred to be trophy hunted.

I think that a distinction has been made here on “intent,” though many posters are preferring to talk about hunting for food and conservation management.

I have probably patched up and/or euthanized more wounded animals than the hunters on this thread have killed, so I can assure you that many animals suffer tremendously, many of them escape severely wounded, and many animals are shot and wounded out of season–and are often not even legal to hunt. (And the illegality of it all doesn’t mean it doesn’t happen.)

So you say that you know many hunters personally. Do they participate in “canned hunts”? Do they kill exotics for the “game” of it? Because that is the focus of this thread.

I live in a fairly economically depressed part of Ohio. The hunters I know hunt quail, deer, squirrels, ducks, rabbits, etc. The idea of shooting a large animal for the sake of shooting it I find distasteful. Big game hunters that go after cape buffalo, warthogs, wildebeest, grizzly bears and other so-called “trophy animals” are nothing more than men that are trying to reaffirm their masculinity. As for poachers, most of the hunters I know have personally told my some of the less than friendly ways they would like to do to them.