Killing Animals for "Sport"

[Brendan]

I see

I forgot to mention, the red hats are the gallaro of a Cardinal.

I was in the Diaconate program for 3 years, until kids 4 and 5 came along and I had to drop out.

We had a bit of fun in Moral Theology class at the seminary

 

[severus68]

It most certainly is.

In fact it is in that catagory of the most difficult sports, the ones where the competition is with yourself.

Certainly no ompetition from the anmals you hunt, what sport.

 

[vz71]

Certainly no ompetition from the anmals you hunt, what sport.

I have yet to see a man that can compete one on one with the natural abilities of other animals.

That is why we must use the tools at our disposal. Our brain, and a plethora of rather unwieldy implements to effect the kill.
And even then, as I am sure every hunter on this thread can attest to, the animal often gets away.

 

[Sean_Boyle]

I think you are in the wrong thread. The topic is hunting for “sport,” for the game of it. Enjoyment and thrill being the motivation, killing an animal for ego, not for food.

I think the point of the hunters poster here are making, and very effectively I might add, is that hunters don’t hunt for sport. Hunters don’t waste. Hunter’s are better able to appreciate God’s creation in all of its beauty and grandeur, and yes in better ways than a nonhunter will ever understand.

A hunter gets no more pleasure out of bring home food than a vegan that grows and picks food from their backyard garden. It’s that same sort of pleasure.

Nonhunters are the people that do those sorts of things like canned hunts, and hunting for sport.

A hunter already knows those things are unethical and would never do them. We have to make laws that regulate cruelty to animal and wanton waste for the nonhunters of the world.

 

[Sean_Boyle]

I believe what we are missing is that this is ALL connected - we need to live our daily livs - our daily choices must reflect our faith - even if I can say, ‘Hey, I don’t ‘sport’ hunt, like dog or cock fighting’ - therefore I am not involved in animal cruelty". To just scratch the surface on the issue of where our food comes - opened my eyes and requred that I make changes… Peace

you existance in this world has contributed to animal cruelty in some way. How do you square with your beliefs?

 

[Sean_Boyle]

In my 50’s I went from a complete ominvore to a vegan over a couple of years because I LEARNED - and then felt compelled to change because I BELIEVE MY ACTIONS MATTER.

Maybe you have more to learn before you begin to teach.

 

[athansor]

you existance in this world has contributed to animal cruelty in some way. How do you square with your beliefs?

Speaking for myself, I realize that every one of us causes animal suffering to some degree. I just try to minimize it.
It’s like this. If I’m driving, I will likely hit bugs on my windshield, although that’s not my intent. But, when I’m walking down the sidewalk, I don’t intentionally step on bugs. If a rabbit runs out in front of my car, and the safest thing to do for my passengers, myself and the other cars on the road is to not swerve, then I’ll hit it before I endanger someone. But, if I’m driving and see a rabbit off to the side, I won’t try to hit it.
So, while my lettuce may have been harvested in a way that killed some bugs, that wasn’t the intent. The beef I didn’t have for dinner would have come from a cow that was intentionally killed so I could eat it.

Another way to think of it is that, like anything else, it’s unlikely that a human can ever be perfect, however, that doesn’t mean we stop working at things. I’ll never be a perfect vegan, but I do my best and don’t spend too much energy worrying about the small stuff.
Just because I can’t eliminate all animal suffering, or even all the animal suffering that I’m responsible, that doesn’t mean I just give up and go back to eating meat.

 

[4elise]

you existance in this world has contributed to animal cruelty in some way. How do you square with your beliefs?

that it is unintentional

 

[4elise]

Maybe you have more to learn before you begin to teach.

I didn’t know I was teaching… but given that supposition, what would you suggest? FYI - I have NO doubt that I have much, much more to learn — I always try to stay open to new information.

 

[4elise]

Speaking for myself, I realize that every one of us causes animal suffering to some degree. I just try to minimize it.
It’s like this. If I’m driving, I will likely hit bugs on my windshield, although that’s not my intent. But, when I’m walking down the sidewalk, I don’t intentionally step on bugs. If a rabbit runs out in front of my car, and the safest thing to do for my passengers, myself and the other cars on the road is to not swerve, then I’ll hit it before I endanger someone. But, if I’m driving and see a rabbit off to the side, I won’t try to hit it.
So, while my lettuce may have been harvested in a way that killed some bugs, that wasn’t the intent. The beef I didn’t have for dinner would have come from a cow that was intentionally killed so I could eat it.

Another way to think of it is that, like anything else, it’s unlikely that a human can ever be perfect, however, that doesn’t mean we stop working at things. I’ll never be a perfect vegan, but I do my best and don’t spend too much energy worrying about the small stuff.
Just because I can’t eliminate all animal suffering, or even all the animal suffering that I’m responsible, that doesn’t mean I just give up and go back to eating meat.

You said it so much better than I did… thanks!
Same answer - just expressed so much better!

 

[severus68]

Speaking for myself, I realize that every one of us causes animal suffering to some degree. I just try to minimize it.
It’s like this. If I’m driving, I will likely hit bugs on my windshield, although that’s not my intent. But, when I’m walking down the sidewalk, I don’t intentionally step on bugs. If a rabbit runs out in front of my car, and the safest thing to do for my passengers, myself and the other cars on the road is to not swerve, then I’ll hit it before I endanger someone. But, if I’m driving and see a rabbit off to the side, I won’t try to hit it.
So, while my lettuce may have been harvested in a way that killed some bugs, that wasn’t the intent. The beef I didn’t have for dinner would have come from a cow that was intentionally killed so I could eat it.

Another way to think of it is that, like anything else, it’s unlikely that a human can ever be perfect, however, that doesn’t mean we stop working at things. I’ll never be a perfect vegan, but I do my best and don’t spend too much energy worrying about the small stuff.
Just because I can’t eliminate all animal suffering, or even all the animal suffering that I’m responsible, that doesn’t mean I just give up and go back to eating meat.

Well said.

 

[pnewton]

Maybe you have more to learn before you begin to teach.

Now, now, no need to get all nasty and ad hominem on anyone.

 

[pnewton]

It’s a Moral Theology pun. Those sheep are Prudence, Justice, Fortitude and Temperence.

The Four Cardinal Vert Ewes.

Nice. Very nice.

 

[vz71]

In my 50’s I went from a complete ominvore to a vegan over a couple of years because I LEARNED - and then felt compelled to change because I BELIEVE MY ACTIONS MATTER.

It doesn’t matter how fast your going. If you are travelling in the wrong direction.

 

[Brendan]

Speaking for myself, I realize that every one of us causes animal suffering to some degree. I just try to minimize it.
It’s like this. If I’m driving, I will likely hit bugs on my windshield, although that’s not my intent. But, when I’m walking down the sidewalk, I don’t intentionally step on bugs. .

Why would you consider the bug to have suffered when it strikes the windshield. It most cases that I have witnesses, the death is instantaneous.

The same would be true if you stepped on an ant.

Where do you feel that the suffering occurs?

 

[4elise]

It doesn’t matter how fast your going. If you are travelling in the wrong direction.

So, you are saying that I have come to the wrong conclusion regarding eating meat, dairy, fish… because you have not come to the same conclusion?

I and others have posted on this and others quotes from the catechism and discussed how we see our choice reflective of this teaching…

Respect for the integrity of creation
2415 The seventh commandment enjoins respect for the integrity of creation. Animals, like plants and inanimate beings, are by nature destined for the common good of past, present, and future humanity.194 Use of the mineral, vegetable, and animal resources of the universe cannot be divorced from respect for moral imperatives. Man’s dominion over inanimate and other living beings granted by the Creator is not absolute; it is limited by concern for the quality of life of his neighbor, including generations to come; it requires a religious respect for the integrity of creation.195

2416 Animals are God’s creatures. He surrounds them with his providential care. By their mere existence they bless him and give him glory.196 Thus men owe them kindness. We should recall the gentleness with which saints like St. Francis of Assisi or St. Philip Neri treated animals.

2417 God entrusted animals to the stewardship of those whom he created in his own image.197 Hence it is legitimate to use animals for food and clothing. They may be domesticated to help man in his work and leisure. Medical and scientific experimentation on animals is a morally acceptable practice if it remains within reasonable limits and contributes to caring for or saving human lives.

2418 It is contrary to human dignity to cause animals to suffer or die needlessly. It is likewise unworthy to spend money on them that should as a priority go to the relief of human misery. One can love animals; one should not direct to them the affection due only to persons.

I have always tried to communicate respectfully with those who have not come to the same conclusion. I also find that participating on these threads has offered me opportunities to research different subjects, like hunting for example. To the hunters who have shared information about how they hunt for food, I have offered my respect, even if I can not understand how they can do this - i believe I have said several times how I see this as preferential to buying meat that comes from factory farms.

So, I’ve tried to be respectful at all times and if I have given a tone that lacks that respect I certainly apologize.

 

[vz71]

So, you are saying that I have come to the wrong conclusion regarding eating meat, dairy, fish… because you have not come to the same conclusion?

Yes.
And I remain unconvinced from the information you have provided.

I have little doubt of your sincerity, but I doubt some of the premises that support your conclusions.

 

[Deacon_Ed_B]

I have not read all of the posts before I entered this one.

I note that most people seem to be against hunting. I for one, enjoy a good deer hunt, or dove or quail. I also enjoy fishing. I do dress out and eat what I kill or catch, or if there is too much meat involved, the shelters are more than glad to get it. NO, hunting and fishing is not wrong. . I do however agree that killing just for sport and wasting the meat is not OK.

 

[Brendan]

I have always tried to communicate respectfully with those who have not come to the same conclusion. I also find that participating on these threads has offered me opportunities to research different subjects, like hunting for example. To the hunters who have shared information about how they hunt for food, I have offered my respect, even if I can not understand how they can do this - i believe I have said several times how I see this as preferential to buying meat that comes from factory farms.

So, I’ve tried to be respectful at all times and if I have given a tone that lacks that respect I certainly apologize.

4elise, if it means anything, I have appreciated you (name removed by moderator)ut. I disagree with some of your takes on things, but I have never encountered any meanness, and I certainly have never attempted to convey any myself

I think we have a lot more in common than not. I too prefer hunting to factory farming. If you noticed in previous emails, our family even raised our own chickens, and will start again in the spring. We get eggs from that, and at the end of their laying ‘careers’ they will end up in the pot.

But always, it will be quick with no suffering. Which is what we are called to do.

 

[Newbie2]

I could also offer a description of my wife killing carrot plants too. Pulled them right out of the ground. Though, like the raccoon, it died painlessly . She even skinned those too come to think of it.

Carrots skinned alive! Oh, the humanity!

I am with you on that. Enjoyment of the suffering of another, human or not is not right , to say the least.

That’s why everyone aims for the quick kill, so there is no suffering.

The ideal situation is the deer comes prancing along and gets a .30 round into the brain. It doesn’t suffer at all, and no meat is lost.

Heck the round is even supersonic, so it doesn’t even hear the shot and the round destroys the brain faster than the nerves can report the hit.

I don’t know of a single hunter who takes enjoyment in the animal suffering.

I don’t either. Those who do, most hunters would condemn.

I was simply describing the average Michigan hunter’s ideal. Some others would seek for a heart shot, which is almost as quick ( the loss of blood pressure causes loss of conscienceness) because it saves the head for mounting. Which is, I suppose another way for not wasting it. That tends to leave the pectoral muscle on that side more usable for hamburger than steak, and I’d personally rather have the steak and an empty wall than a mount and a burger.

Also, the average Michigan hunter’s ideal is to drink heavily, play cards, smoke cigars, and leave behind the “domestic life” for a few days.

I wonder if there would be some different reactions if the thread were entitled “trophy hunting” instead of “sport hunting”, Trophy hunting in this case is hunting and killing an animal merely to mount it’s head on the wall, not for the meat or pelt.