killing in the military

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… and his belief in no heaven, no hell and no religion …

Imagine there’s no heaven,
It’s easy if you try,
No hell below us,
Above us only sky,
Imagine all the people
living for today…

Imagine there’s no countries,
It isnt hard to do,
Nothing to kill or die for,
No religion too,
Imagine all the people
living life in peace…

… but what did Jesus say? Did He say that He came so that we could live in peace? Not according to the Word of God … Matthew 10 – “Do not think that I have come to bring peace upon the earth. I have come to bring not peace but the sword. For I have come to set a man or woman 'against his/her father or mother, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and one’s enemies will be those of his household.”
 
Sir Knight:
Do not think that I have come to bring peace upon the earth. I have come to bring not peace but the sword. For I have come to set a man or woman 'against his/her father or mother, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and one’s enemies will be those of his household.
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"Some people would want what the Jews wanted–that Israel be reclaimed for them through the force of arms. Now you out there want a (no offence) warrior Messiah, a combination of patriot, general and king.
 
No, just quoting Jesus’s own words as recorded in sacred scripture.
 
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777:
Whatever. All i know is, from what i see in the news, is that not everyone believes in a just war. Neither did Gandhi.
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“Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the Act depriving a whole nation of arms as the blackest. If we want the Arms Act to be repealed, if we want to learn the use of arms, here is a golden opportunity. If the middle classes render voluntary help to the Government in the hour of its trial, distrust will disappear, and the ban on possessing arms will be withdrawn.”

–Mohandis K. Gandhi, Autobiography.
Translated from the Gujarati by Mahadev Desai. Public Affairs Press,Washington, D.C. 1948, page 403.

I don’t think he wanted guns so that he could hunt… 😃
 
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777:
His beliefs in peace, and world where there would be nuttin’ to kill or die for.
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Lemee get this straight – you come around here telling the rest of us it’s wrong to worship a man, and yet you worship John Lennon?
 
Once Lennon started hanging out with Yoko Ono [sp], he totally lost it in my opinion – divorced his wife, broke up the beatles, re-married, had his sex & drug party with his wife made public, etc.

And this is a man you want us to look up to? I don’t think so!
 
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Giver:
What is wrong with you all? Can’t you read, or don’t you understand plain English? Jesus told us how we are to treat our enemies and it doesn’t seem that anyone is listening.

(Luke 6:27-29) “But I say this to you who ** are listening**: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, bless those who curse you, pray for those who treat you badly. To the man who slaps you on one cheek, present the other cheek too; to the man who takes you cloak from you, do not refuse your tunic.”

(Matthew 5:43-44) “You have learnt how it was said, you must love your neighbor and hate your enemy, but I say this to you: love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you.”

(Matthew 5:44) “But I say this to you: love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you;”

(Matthew 5:38-39) “You have learnt how it was said: Eye for eye and tooth for tooth. But I say this to you: offer the wicked man no resistance. On the contrary, if anyone hits you on the right cheek, offer him the other as well;”
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A distinction needs to be made between conduct by an individual and conduct by lawful authorities of the soverign state.

INDIVIDUALS MUST forgive. Which means no hatred to those who are evil doers. It does NOT mean, however, that we post the passwords to our checking accounts on the internet and let whoever wants to, to take our money. Or to submit willingly to be beaten to a pulp. If a neighbor bulldozes our yard and says he is taking it because we are not using it, we cannot KILL him or hurt him. [eye-for-an-eye]. But we can go to court, take legal remedies, build a fence or wall, etc.

Soverign states are PERMITTED to go to war. There are even guidelines in the Bible about figuring out ahead of time what it will take to prevail. Versus suing for peace and negotiating terms (assuming the adversary is trustworthy). AND war involves the taking of human life.

Soverign states DO have rights that individual people do NOT have. Soverign states have RESPONSIBILITIES to protect their subjects and citizens in a collective way. And if war is necessary, then so be it, unless someone comes up with some bloodless alternative.

Attempts have been made, such as the UN. However, all too many apologists for the UN have looked the other way all too often (Oil for palaces scandal, Rwanda, etc.)
 
Sir Knight:
Once Lennon started hanging out with Yoko Ono [sp], he totally lost it in my opinion – divorced his wife, broke up the beatles, re-married, had his sex & drug party with his wife made public, etc.

And this is a man you want us to look up to? I don’t think so!
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I thought it was Paul that broke up the group.
 
vern humphrey:
Lemee get this straight – you come around here telling the rest of us it’s wrong to worship a man or woman, and yet you worship John Lennon?
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I DIDN’T say i worshipped John Lennon at all, and NEVER will, ONLY Jesus. I just heard so much of his beliefs in peace. Then hang Lennon!! CHEE!! BOLLOCKS!!
 
Al Masetti:
A distinction needs to be made between conduct by an individual and conduct by lawful authorities of the soverign state.

INDIVIDUALS MUST forgive. Which means no hatred to those who are evil doers. It does NOT mean, however, that we post the passwords to our checking accounts on the internet and let whoever wants to, to take our money. Or to submit willingly to be beaten to a pulp. If a neighbor bulldozes our yard and says he/she is taking it because we are not using it, we cannot KILL him/her or hurt him/her. [eye-for-an-eye]. But we can go to court, take legal remedies, build a fence or wall, etc.

Soverign states are PERMITTED to go to war. There are even guidelines in the Bible about figuring out ahead of time what it will take to prevail. Versus suing for peace and negotiating terms (assuming the adversary is trustworthy). AND war involves the taking of human life.

Soverign states DO have rights that individual people do NOT have. Soverign states have RESPONSIBILITIES to protect their subjects and citizens in a collective way. And if war is necessary, then so be it, unless someone comes up with some bloodless alternative.

Attempts have been made, such as the UN. However, all too many apologists for the UN have looked the other way all too often (Oil for palaces scandal, Rwanda, etc.)
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And I say ending a person’s life, even in defense, denies them a chance to repent. It is sinful to wish someone dead. Now if all the means of defense were nonlethal, the story would be different. Konckout gas and tear gas forn instance.
 
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777:
I DIDN’T say i worshipped John Lennon at all, and NEVER will, ONLY Jesus. I just heard so much of his beliefs in peace. Then hang Lennon!! CHEE!! BOLLOCKS!!
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It’s not about Lennon. It’s about you telling the rest of us we “worship men” and then turning around and posting what can only be a panegyric to Lennon.
 
vern humphrey:
It’s not about Lennon. It’s about you telling the rest of us we “worship men and women” and then turning around and posting what can only be a panegyric to Lennon.
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So I made a quote. OK?In my, book, all joking aside, The hevenly father is #1 to me.And that I don’t believe in war, regardless. No-one wants to lose a chance to repent, not to mention lose a life.
 
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777:
So I made a quote. OK?In my, book, all joking aside, The hevenly father is #1 to me.And that I don’t believe in war, regardless. No-one wants to lose a chance to repent, not to mention lose a life.
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In various posts on these forums, you have:
  1. Condemned other people for “worshiping men.”
  2. Posted panegyrics to John Lennon, claiming among other things that he died for his beliefs. That’s hypocracy.
  3. Rejected the Magisterium, claming that self defense and national defense are wrong, in contradiction of paragraph 2310 of the Catechism.
  4. Held a Hindu, Ghandi, up as being morally superior to the Church.
 
vern humphrey:
In various posts on these forums, you have:
  1. Condemned other people for “worshiping men.”
  2. Posted panegyrics to John Lennon, claiming among other things that he died for his beliefs. That’s hypocracy.
  3. Rejected the Magisterium, claming that self defense and national defense are wrong, in contradiction of paragraph 2310 of the Catechism.
  4. Held a Hindu, Ghandi, up as being morally superior to the Church.
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He also claimed the miltary was in the service of Satan although to his credit he backed off the statement.

777 has embraced an absolutist belief that crumbles under the most minor of examinations. Since his position is so absurd the defense of it leads to more and more absurd defenses.
 
vern humphrey:
In various posts on these forums, you have:
  1. Condemned other people for “worshiping men and women.”
  2. Posted panegyrics to John Lennon, claiming among other things that he died for his beliefs. That’s hypocracy.
  3. Rejected the Magisterium, claming that self defense and national defense are wrong, in contradiction of paragraph 2310 of the Catechism.
  4. Held a Hindu, Ghandi, up as being morally superior to the Church.
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Forget Ghandi and and Lennon, ok? Give it a rest!! I NEVER WORSHIPPED THEM @ ALL!! to say that is bollocks. I have tried to be civilised but that is a bit too far. Let’s drop that and behave like humans, OK?
 
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estesbob:
He also claimed the miltary was in the service of Satan although to his credit he backed off the statement.

777 has embraced an absolutist belief that crumbles under the most minor of examinations. Since his position is so absurd the defense of it leads to more and more absurd defenses.
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Never mind that–if a just war is the final solution, how come we ain’t feeling any better?:confused:
 
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777:
Forget Ghandi and and Lennon, ok? Give it a rest!! I NEVER WORSHIPPED THEM @ ALL!!
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When I compare what you said about them to what other posters said about people like the President, you most certainly did – and note I’m using your standard to arrive at this conclusion.
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777:
I have tried to be civilised
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Those you have offended with your accusations of worshiping man, and your claim that the military is in the service of Satan might well disagree.
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777:
Let’s drop that and behave like humans, OK?
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If you had adopted that approach at the outset, you wouldn’t be in such a lather now.
 
vern humphrey:
When I compare what you said about them to what other posters said about people like the President, you most certainly did – and note I’m using your standard to arrive at this conclusion.

Those you have offended with your accusations of worshiping man and woman, and your claim that the military is in the service of Satan might well disagree.

If you had adopted that approach at the outset, you wouldn’t be in such a lather now.
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Don’t forget worshipping woman too.
 
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