King David not very likeable (did he rape Bathsheba?)

[po18guy]

Ah, but they were created sinless. The rest is, as they say…

 

[EndTimes]

they were created sinless.

They were created with the potential to Sin -

And went on to SIN… and became spiritually Imperfect; as they say…

They are never referred to as “sinless” or perfect - as was and is JESUS…

_

 

[BornInMarch]

There’s an old saying: “Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely”.

When we first meet David he is a pious shepherd’s son who is willing to face down a pagan champion rather than let God be blasphemed with impunity. He was so good that he never tried to kill or usurp power from Saul even after Saul tried to kill him - he actually avenged Saul’s murder and provided for Saul’s last descendant. In other words, David was a good kid.

Then he was crowned, told he was second only to God, and showered with wealth and luxuries. He began to neglect his duties, staying in his palace while his warriors fought and neglecting to raise his children with good morals. He became greedy and mistreated those under him.

The reason David retains God’s favor is because, despite how far he fell, he never renounced God or bent the knee to idols. He trusted that God still loved him. When the prophet Nathan called him out on his errors, David listened and rectified them.

 

[ATraveller]

You’re not the only person to find King David not likeable.
One of the Wesley brothers was critical of him too. I’ll try to find that quote. Remember, they started a movement within Anglicanism which eventually turned into Methodism, the Holiness Movement and Pentecostalism and a precursor to “evangelicalism”.
Bear in mind God delivered more punishments to David than just the one you’ve mentioned.

 

[Genesis315]

I’m not sure how legitimate a marriage that can really be, you know, with coveting thy neighbour’s wife and such.

Once the husband died, Bathseba was unmarried and therefore could validly marry David. Even today in the Church, while canon law makes “conjugicide” an impediment to marriage, it is not an absolute impediment (it can be dispensed by the Pope, but I doubt it has happened often, if ever). That doesn’t mean they didn’t both sin leading up to the marriage–they did and grievously so–but that wouldn’t affect the validity (or legitimacy, while it would make sense to have a law against it, David as king was the supreme legislator, executive, and judge) of the marriage contracted afterward.

 

[ATraveller]

One of the Wesley brothers was critical of him too. I’ll try to find that quote.

John Wesley’s Notes on the Bible:

So far is David from repenting, that he seeks to cover one sin with another. How are the beginnings of sin to be dreaded! For who knows where it will end? David hath sinned, therefore Uriah must die! That innocent, valiant, gallant man, who was ready to die for his prince’s honour, must die by his prince’s hand! See how fleshly lusts war against the soul, and what devastations they make in that war! How they blind the eyes, fear the conscience, harden the heart, and destroy all sense of honour and justice! (2 Sam 11:15)

But it is observable, that David now when he was most indulgent to himself, and to his own sin, was most severe and even unjust to others; as appears by this passage, and the following relation, ver.31, which was done in the time of David’s impenitent continuance in his sin. (2 Sam 12:5)

And could not he recalled, to visit him, or to send for him. What amazing weakness was this! At first he could not find in his heart, to do justice to the ravisher of his sister! And now he can almost find in his heart to receive into favour the murderer of his brother?How can we excuse David from the sin of Eli; who honoured his sons more than God? (2 Sam 13:29)

2 Samuel Commentary - Wesley's Explanatory Notes

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Have you read about all the other Kings in Scripture as well? Many of them make David look quite saintly by comparison.

Anyway, the point is, as someone else said, David committed a very bad sin. Yet, after he repented, he was forgiven by God.

Many of us have committed bad sins of which we later repented and were likewise forgiven by God via confession. Fortunately, they won’t be written down in Scripture or even here on CAF, so we don’t have to concern ourselves with whether someone posting here “likes” us much or not.

Then there is also also the possibly already discussed question over whether King David raped Bathsheba. I mean, it doesn’t specifically state that in the Bible, it just says he saw her, summoned her over and basically made love to her. The woman was married though. Would she just willingly allow this?

There is no suggestion in the Scripture that she was taken against her will. She may very well have been lonely, impressed by the fact that a King wanted her, charmed by the handsome King, or felt she was doing her duty for her country. We really don’t know and apparently the Holy Spirit when he inspired the author to write the Scripture didn’t think it was important to relate, or the author would have told us.

 

[C.Longinus]

He was also a compulsive liar and had a penchant for letting people,get away with murder. And by people, I mean Joab.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

You’re not the only person to find King David not likeable.
One of the Wesley brothers was critical of him too.

I find the Wesley brothers much less likeable than King David.

 

[TK421]

More than likely if anybody here was born in ancient Palestine and was an ancient king of Israel, we would have done worse or far worse, but God’s mercy is infinite and he forgives all sins including mortal ones.

 

[InThePew]

I have to say, I am not liking this chap a whole lot. God was very kind to him. At times it’s almost like, God anointed him, then saw that he is a terrible sinner but because he made a promise about what he would do, he kept him alive.

That’s it in a nutshell. There’s no sugarcoating it - David is a murderer and, regardless of whether he judged by the standard then or now, a despicable human being. God however, is always faithful to His promises, even when we’re not; he never gives up on us no matter how bad our actions might be. If anything, it gives us hope - no matter how much of a sinner any of us might be, it’s safe to say that our sinfulness doesn’t come anywhere near David’s!

 

[Tis_Bearself]

King David had many faults but he did penance and repented. I’m not sure why he chose to stay with Bethsaba instead of becoming for example chaste.

Well, first of all because with her husband dead due to King David’s having killed him, and Bathsheba having no children other than the one she conceived with David (which died), the honorable thing to do was for King David to take responsibility for her so she wouldn’t end up a lonely poor widow, with no son to support her.

Second of all because he was a King and kings were expected to have wives and sons to carry on their line. God did not call David to be a chaste prophet in the desert, he called David to be a king, with children. God makes that very clear in all of his messages to David. David’s son with Bathsheba went on to become King Solomon who was favored by God and did great things for God before he fell to the temptations of womanizing and worshipping false gods.

It’s important to understand what God is calling each person in Scripture and in our life today to do. Not everybody is called to be some chaste monk in the desert. God needs people out in the world too; the Jewish people needed a leader, and God had already picked David for that task. Leaders in that time were not supposed to be celibate (I presume that’s what you mean by “chaste”). Once Bathsheba’s husband was dead, David could and did marry her and therefore they had a “chaste” relationship by the standards of the time going forward. David had multiple wives, as was the custom then, but he presumably did not commit any more adultery.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

More than likely if anybody here was born in ancient Palestine and was an ancient king of Israel, we would have done worse or far worse

As most of the Kings other than David did, according to Scripture.

 

[TULIPed]

And note what happens afterward: God blesses their second child, who would succeed David as king.

Excellent point. And what a family tree! From Matthew 1:6:

“David was the father of Solomon, whose mother had been Uriah’s wife,”

#allthingsworkforgood

 

[TULIPed]

As most of the Kings other than David did, according to Scripture.

So true. But not King Josiah! My favorite king of ancient Israel (Judah to be precise). Best king ever. Great story. It’s all in 2 Kings 22-23.

I wonder why more kids these days aren’t named Josiah? Come to think I of it, I should’ve named one of my kids Josiah. I wonder if “Joseph” is related to Josiah?

Apologies for the thread creep, I couldn’t resist. Loves me some King Josiah.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

I wonder why more kids these days aren’t named Josiah? Come to think I of it, I should’ve named one of my kids Josiah. I wonder if “Joseph” is related to Josiah?

I think there are kids named Josiah - it’s one of those hipster trendy “old fashioned” names that got popular again in the 90s. As for the name Josiah and the name Joseph, Josiah means “God helps” and Joseph means “God will increase” so it’s a little different meaning with same root.

I like the part in the Josiah story where they find the Book of the Law laying forgotten in the dusty old treasure room. It seems like the Book of the Law is constantly getting lost, forgotten, set aside in some corner multiple times during 1 Kings and 2 Kings and then some king’s priest will dig it up again and it gets “rediscovered”. I can’t figure out how they keep misplacing and forgetting such an important item. I guess they get too concerned with worldly stuff and false gods.

 

[Polak]

Indeed I suppose this is a more positive and useful thing to take out of the story of David (rather than just not liking him much), that despite the terrible things he did, God still forgave him and loved him.

Having said that, doesn’t it seem to people that God seems to pick and choose who he forgives and gives numerous chances to, and who he doesn’t?

God can wipe out an entire city of sinners, but keep giving other sinners multiple opportunities to redeem themselves.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

Having said that, doesn’t it seem to people that God seems to pick and choose who he forgives and gives numerous chances to, and who he doesn’t?

God can wipe out an entire city of sinners, but keep giving other sinners multiple opportunities to redeem themselves.

It’s generally understood that God gives everybody multiple chances and when he gets to the point of “wiping out” a whole city, they’ve been sinning for a long time without repenting. Even in the case of Nineveh, he sent Jonah to tell them one last time to repent before something really bad happened.

One thing to remember is that people often need to have a relationship with God in order to hear/ heed the call to repent. David had a close relationship with God. Therefore when he displeased God, he was aware, and he was sorry, and he repented and did something about his sin. Many of the other kings seem to have had no relationship with God at all. They just didn’t care.

 

[TULIPed]

I like the part in the Josiah story where they find the Book of the Law laying forgotten in the dusty old treasure room.

I know right? So awesome. I think I’ve got a commentary somewhere (maybe @meltzerboy2 can assist here) that when they celebrated that Passover in 2 Kings 23, it had been 400 years or so since it had been celebrated?

To the point of the OP - the story of David is a microcosm of the story of Israel. A story of God relentlessly pursuing and loving his people in spite of their sin and revolt against Him and His great love.

 

[Tis_Bearself]

It’s also a really typical story. You’re a young innocent person with nothing, God chooses you to do something great, you get big rewards. At first you’re really zealous about God. But with the rewards and the power come stress and complexities and later, big temptations. You get tired and you eventually fall.

If David had just been left as a farmer’s youngest son he likely wouldn’t have had the chances to commit huge sins. He wouldn’t have done anything great either.