Kissing on the lips during the sign of peace

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When Bookcat can send 12 Swiss Guards to arrest husbands and wives kissing each other then we will have the liturgical order that we all long for. Until then, the Rite of Peace is not something so strictly regulated by the Church that we have to worry about who is doing what, especially anyone other than ourselves. In England and Wales where the bishops have decreed that it takes the form of a handshake, then perhaps out of obedience, the British Catholics can observe the proper form. But the USCCB has made no such stricture on Americans and I would guess that this is low on the agendas of other episcopal conferences, so do what you want.
 
Brendan_64 said:
And if a Bishops’ Conference deems that a handshake is the designated action as the sign of peace (as in the UK) then that would mean that the laity are bound by that also?
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They have the authority to define this sign and I would hope that all would abide by such a decision. I am not holding my breath though, but neither am I exhaling on people as a sign of peace. Back when Cardinal Arinze was in charge of the liturgy, I remember him criticizing bishops that he felt overly regimented the laity as a military group and not a family. I think he had it right. Mass is not a family re-union, but neither is it boot camp.
 
Brendan_64 said:
So it would be right to expect couples in the UK to behave appropriately and not to kiss and hug their spouses during the Rite of Peace?
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It depends on how the directive was worded. They would need to shake hands while doing so, at the very least.
 
Elizium23 said:
When Bookcat can send 12 Swiss Guards to arrest husbands and wives kissing each other then we will have the liturgical order that we all long for.
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Man…I was only allotted 7 …😉

(but even if I had 12 at my call I would not send them for such…)
 
Havard said:
Okay, you got us. We’re nerds and we tend to pore over details. 😃

I am sorry your thread about favorite saints isn’t getting more discussion though. I like that topic!
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I wasn’t worried that it didn’t get much focus or not but in terms of priority, having so many post on opinions which is what all of this is about a very basic affection between married people is just rather pathetic. Some of the posts on the other thread have been truly uplifting and inspiring and made me want to look of some of the lesser known saints and educated myself. This thread is embarrassing and it’s now 270+ strong.
 
ProVobis said:
Would you feel the same way if you were to see gay couples at Mass?

I feel even more strongly toward a handshake or a nod as an exchange mechanism for everyone.
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You know your point is rather on the absurd side of things. First of all, I do not expect to see “gay couples” coming to a church that does not support either their life style which is considered mortal sin nor does the Catholic Church do same sex marriages. In fact teaches against them. So your point that married couples shouldn’t even share the simplest of kisses during the rite of peace because now we will be invaded with “gay” couples that are going to kiss each other in Church borders on the paranoid. I don’t know whether to laugh or cry at your point.
 
robwar said:
First of all, I do not expect to see “gay couples” coming to a church that does not support either their life style which is considered mortal sin nor does the Catholic Church do same sex marriages.
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No expectations, really? Then I invite you to walk the streets of downtown and uptown Chicago. There’s no rule they can’t come to Church, is there?
 
ProVobis said:
No expectations, really? Then I invite you to walk the streets of downtown and uptown Chicago. There’s no rule they can’t come to Church, is there?
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I do not see widespread “flaunting” being displayed at the sign of peace and certainly not by families. But I have read about certain gay and lesbian groups protesting outside and inside of churches and cathedrals. I thought that I was beginning to see your point and you almost had me rethinking that it is more urgent than I had thought for a correct sign be decided upon by the bishops in order to prevent abuse. But it weakens your argument when remarks that seem to show more expectation of some abusive conduct or misinterpretation of conduct rather than actual flaunting being displayed. You have a good point but you need to be careful of how to express it.
 
Brendan_64 said:
Why do you need to kiss your family during the Liturgy? Could this not wait until after Mass? It is a sign of peace, not a sign of familial love and closeness. Do you make a point of hugging and kissing members of your family at other times during the Mass?
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I need to kiss my family because that is how I offer a sign of peace I thought we’ve already been through this.

Well now that you ask I hold my husbands hand during mass.
 
What do I do? It depends on who I am with.

When I am with my girlfriend, it is a hug and a simple peck on the lips.
When I am with the children’s liturgy of the word, I shake hands with all the children I can get to, normally walking to them.
When I am with people I know (eg., choir), I turn round, reach out and shake their hands plus a simple wave to those further away.

It is sad that in my country in the last few decades, we have moved from handshakes to a perfunctory nod of the head to even a shallow bow with palms together, often without any eye contact. I feel so sad about it that when I attend daily mass where the next person is so far away, I prefer to stay kneeling down (at daily mass, I kneel from the dialogue at begining of the Eucharistic Prayer all the way to the breaking of bread) with head bowed instead of participating in a ritualistic sign of peace (an oxymoron, IMHO). I alsofind it odd that a loving husband and wife would just turn to nod at each other - it looks like there is a problem in the marriage!

In the end, my advice would be to do whatever you feel comfortable without being a distraction to other people.
 
HoneyBea said:
I need to kiss my family because that is how I offer a sign of peace I thought we’ve already been through this.
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You have said this before, but that doesn’t make it appropriate or in keeping with the symbolism of this part of the Liturgy. We should not discriminate between one person and another during this part of the Liturgy. This isn’t an opportunity to express “Honey, I love you” to our nearest and dearest. We are recognising that Christ is amongst us as the Body of Christ,Christ is not more present in those most dear to us. Redemptionis Sacramentum states that “that each one give the sign of peace only to those who are nearest and** in a sober manner**”. ‘In a sober manner’ does not involve kissing and hugging.
 
Havard said:
Okay, you got us. We’re nerds and we tend to pore over details. 😃

I am sorry your thread about favorite saints isn’t getting more discussion though. I like that topic!
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Rofl too funny…admitted nerd holding hand up here too.

As for what non-Catholics reading CAF and this thread might think…I hope they see how seriously we take our sign of the peace.😃
 
Brendan_64 said:
You have said this before, but that doesn’t make it appropriate or in keeping with the symbolism of this part of the Liturgy. We should not discriminate between one person and another during this part of the Liturgy. This isn’t an opportunity to express “Honey, I love you” to our nearest and dearest. We are recognising that Christ is amongst us as the Body of Christ,Christ is not more present in those most dear to us. Redemptionis Sacramentum states that “that each one give the sign of peace only to those who are nearest and** in a sober manner**”. ‘In a sober manner’ does not involve kissing and hugging.
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Thanks for your opinion : )
 
Brendan_64 said:
Redemptionis Sacramentum states that “that each one give the sign of peace only to those who are nearest and** in a sober manner**”. ‘In a sober manner’ does not involve kissing and hugging.
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As one could gather from my posts - I agree that the “family hug and kiss” that may ensue - - can be argued to be aside from a “sober manner”.

However there is a kind of embrace (clasping the arms–in the Roman way) that one does see in liturgy -such as among Monastic’s and Bishops etc (and even a kiss at times-that is the kissing on both cheeks) --and which is certainly “sober”.
 
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