That’s some good information, but it also raises some issues. If you interpret it this way, then you would also be obligated to hold hands during the Lord’s Prayer if the priest requests it and/or if everyone else is doing so. I really don’t think that’s the case.
The reason I said not to receiving communion in any situation like this comes from the idea that if a person is confused or overly concerned as to what is happening in the Mass, how can they be in a state to receive communion? How are you in communion with God if your thoughts are: “Am I doing this or that right? Is this proper or not? What should I be doing? Should I listen to the Preside or do what I think is right? I’m just not sure what happening here is correct or not.” All of these thoughts of confusion cloud the mind and keep one from actually communing with God. How then, in the midst of these sorts of thoughts, can one actually in good conscience present himself for communion? That’s the whole banana behind why I said that. I think it’s better not to receive than to receive unworthily.I am not sure why either choice would suggest refraining from Communion.Nothing about this invalidates the consecration so refraining doens’t seem to be a question.
Actually, that would be an erroneous interpretation because hand-holding is not part of the rubrics. It is not contained in the GIRM nor is it referenced in any of the authoritative and legislative documens that the Holy See has issued regulating the Mass.
He said that since it is not in the GIRM nor any place else, it is not to be done.We’ve had the Bishop of Richmond preside over our Liturgies numerous times and ‘never’ said a word. I haven’t spoken with him, personally, on this topic but he doesn’t bat an eyelash at how we celebrate the Ordinary Form.
Of course, you don’t have a monopoly on this approach. A priest may well say, If we CAN, shouldn’t we try to have a more coherent, reverent, and less confusing mass, by having uniformity of posture?Its not about doing the bare minimum or what do we have to do. We should be thinking, what CAN we do for Him. If we CAN, couldn’t we do a double genuflection before our Lord exposed in the monstrance? If we CAN, couldn’t we kneel when we have a chair instead of a pew with a kneeler?
I won’t dispute or support your point, but as benedictgal hinted at, there is a difference between the two cases you compare. Standing is actually provided for in the GIRM, the issue is on what occasions is it appropriate.
Yes this is what we were taught. Kneel when the community kneels but don’t kneel when the community doesn’t kneel.
What do you mean by a monopoly on the approach? Why can’t all communities have the uniformity of posture by kneeling like most of the rest of us? Are we too good to kneel? Can anyone give me a good reason for a community not kneeling?
I can’t think of many good reasons, and a side hall without kneelers is not a good reason to me. Don’t have kneelers? Instead of deciding to have the entire congregation stand, how about buying kneelers for that side hall? Perhaps I should ask one of the priests why this fairly simple and obvious solution apparently hasn’t been considered.
Well stated. My point exactly.
To participate in an older tradition of ‘not’ kneeling on Sunday as it was observed among the earlier Liturgies of St. James, St. Basil and St. John Chrysotom maybe?
The tradtion in the east is to stand and in the west to kneel. In the east they kneel when saying penitentital prayers. I don’t know about the Liturgy of Saint James. Which Saint James? Is it an apostle? Is there really a Liturgy that old. Basil and Chrysotom are eastern rite liturgies.To participate in an older tradition of ‘not’ kneeling on Sunday as it was observed among the earlier Liturgies of St. James, St. Basil and St. John Chrysotom maybe?
I do know that there is a Maronite Parish very close to ours who also don’t kneel… they stand.
You were arguing that if we CAN take some action that might be more reverent, we should. I pointed out that this is a poor argument, because those you are debating can turn around and make the same argument to support their position.
The GIRM specifically cites health, lack of space, and large numbers of people as good reasons for not kneeling, but implies that other good reasons exist.
However, this is how Cardinal Arinze addressed the issue of kneeling:
As I read it, it jibes with what the GIRM notes; however, neither stipulation exists for the OP. It’s just plain bad planning from whoever designed that particular church.
It is impossible to follow both the Byzantine and Latin Rite norms in the same Liturgy. Being bi-ritual means worshipping with either Liturgy, but not both at the same time.
Hi B,
Good reasons for individuals were posted, but also if a community had a large number who could not kneel, they might feel that it is better to have the uniformity of standing, rather than a divided posture.