Koran burning cancelled

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Now, now, like our DI often told us in boot camp, “Don’t anticipate! Wait for the order.”

GeoCyclist, let me remind you, we haven’t let go of them…yet. Right now, oh, yes, we have taken them. After we leave, you can spout your little spiel…which sounds exactly like the leftist propaganda dumped on America about Vietnam during that war… It’s all an old recording, to me, what you just wrote. Try to do your own thinking, and see for yourself if a statement matches the physical facts, before you repeat it.

That’ll save you lots of embarrassment. Really.
What a condescending, patronising, insulting, arrogant post. For your information, I do my own thinking, I have always done my own thinking, I don’t wait for ‘‘orders’’. Vietnam, what a great example to being up 😃 No, America hasn’t taken either Iraq or Afghanistan - and never will. You’ll save yourself lots of embarrassment by not bigging up Uncle Sam and giving it large - wait 24 months - let’s see who’s right.
 
The church historically has had armed members in its service. The ones that come to mind off hand are st joan of arc, the knights templar, the teutonic knights, and currently by the vatican swiss guard. All were armed with more than the faith. While the terms church militant usually refers to evangelical efforts it is not exclusively that. The church is aware that there are spiritual and earthly threats to the faith.

youtube.com/watch?v=GOwiJ7ZCuU8 The Swiss Guard
youtube.com/watch?v=bBt9oxZFn0g Knights of malta
Although I tend to agree with your bolded statement, I think the bigger question is: Is the Church Militant (especially the heart of it which is the Vatican/Pope) evangelizing?

When the Vatican praises Muslims by telling them that God will reward them for their efforts during Ramadan, when a Pope kisses the Koran, when the Vatican holds the religion of Islam in high esteem and deserving of respect (a religion that came to be AFTER the end of divine revelation with Christ and His Apostles and denies the divinity of Christ), is the Church Militant actually evangelizing? Or is it, instead, sending the message there is no need to convert to Catholicism?
 
Or is it, instead, sending the message there is no need to convert to Catholicism?
That’s a good question. Where I am, there are lots of interfaith events, and it almsot feels like the catholic church is scared to say, we’re holding such and such an event for the kids, teens, whatever, and it’s a CATHOLIC event. (Needless to say all are welcome :D). I’m sure that’s not the reality, but it’s easy to see it as such. And while we have an endless stream of JW’s and fundamentalists banging on the door, not to mention the street preachers on a saturday, I’ve not yet had the pleasure of meeting a catholic doing so. Which makes me wonder how, in 2010, is the Catholic church evangalizing?
 
Good job! You certainly did your homework! Thank you for passing the information along. 👍
Thanks for the kind words and you are welcome.

When I joined the national conversation about the mosque being promoted by Park51 and its supporters, I did not expect to find all like-minded posters in this forum. I read each opposing position to mine, and, as much as possible, not have my ego get in the way of a true exchange, or not let the other’s unsavory debating style get under my skin.

But I find surprising that enough Americans buy into the asymmetry of Islamic-West/American discord, heavily disfavoring American and Christian principles. The certitude of mosque proponents puzzles me, and yet, these same people are also too quick to put down the first amendment rights as it applies to one, albeit grandstanding, fringe Christian pastor from Gainesville, Florida.

Whither goest thou, America?

Imam Feisal seems set on this course of “stick in the eye” mosque near Ground Zero, with the help of American supporters, who have become apologists for Islam without knowing the important facts about Islamic religious beliefs and practices.

But you don’t have to take this claim from me. Take if from Dr. Ashraf Ramelah, an Arab who has lived in Egypt before moving to Italy. He pursued studies in architecture, specifically its history and restoration of old monuments; he is also a founder of a human rights organization with offices in Italy and the U.S. He feels he has a decided advantage over his American friends in that he has grown up in clear view of the unfolding Islamic agenda, as well as having been victimized by it, as an Egyptian-born Copt.

Excerpts of what he said:

Islamic-Arab aggression began in 651 and repeated itself once again in New York City on September 11, 2001. For 1,400 years, the people of Arab-occupied countries have suffered a rewrite of their own histories, their identities erased for the purpose of satisfying Arab-Muslim occupation and supremacy.

After the 9/11 tragedy, Arab-Muslim media were reporting the success of bin Laden against the Kafirs in America. This same media, along with some Western media, spread rumors that the tragedy was planned and achieved through an inside job done by the FBI. Meanwhile, in this same timeframe, President Bush took a prompt from his Saudi Arabian associates and, based upon abrogated verses from Qur’an, declared Islam a religion of peace!

Statements like this from America’s leaders, including some recently made by President Obama, have helped pave the way for us to receive the final emblem of triumph from the Arab Muslim over the American way, namely the Cordoba initiative, an Islamic Center to be built on hallowed American ground.

The groundbreaking of the Cordoba mosque at Ground Zero will be a symbol of Arab-Muslim Gazwa (Arabic term to mean successful attack on an enemy) of New York City, as currently projected in the Arab media, and will directly lead to the Islamization of America. This in turn will be the beginning of the demands by Muslims for separate Shariah law and Shariah courts.

What a far-fetched conclusion, our American reader might say – mainly because we have had no precedent for this in American culture. Shariahlaw compliance? Surely our Constitution will protect us from whatever this Shariah is.

Using America’s freedom of religion for the establishment of a religion that holds steadfastly to cutting off freedom of religion and freedom of speech in both principle and practice places the religion of Islam in direct contradiction with the American way of life. American secular culture, informed with Judeo-Christian principles, is heading on a collision course with its foreign antithesis, a culture I am all too familiar with.

When I ask my American friends about the proliferation of Islam in America, the typical response is that everything will work out just fine in America because America allows room for practice of all religions and all beliefs. Some even quote their Muslim friends who are adept at refuting the skeptics. Americans have become apologists for Islam without knowing the important facts about Islamic religious beliefs and practices, particularly the practice of taqiya (lying to promote the acceptance of Islam).

His full document dated 9.11.2010 here.
 
Although I tend to agree with your bolded statement, I think the bigger question is: Is the Church Militant (especially the heart of it which is the Vatican/Pope) evangelizing?

When the Vatican praises Muslims by telling them that God will reward them for their efforts during Ramadan, when a Pope kisses the Koran, when the Vatican holds the religion of Islam in high esteem and deserving of respect (a religion that came to be AFTER the end of divine revelation with Christ and His Apostles and denies the divinity of Christ), is the Church Militant actually evangelizing? Or is it, instead, sending the message there is no need to convert to Catholicism?
You became a member of the church militant at confirmation. Be a voice in the wilderness proclaiming the coming of the day of judgment. Just as God chose John the baptist, just a common man, he tasks all his sons and daughters to proclaim the faith, not just the clerics. Learn to mortify yourself for the sake of salvation. Be one of the lepers, the outcasts, and wretched. When told to conform to the world say with greater fever, NO my knee will not bend! Lord Jesus I am thy worthless servant, grant me thy mercy, wisdom, and thy strength. Let nothing happen that is outside thy will.

Mathew chapter 10​

[16] Behold I send you as sheep in the midst of wolves. Be ye therefore wise as serpents and simple as doves. [17] But beware of men. For they will deliver you up in councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues. [18] And you shall be brought before governors, and before kings for my sake, for a testimony to them and to the Gentiles: [19] But when they shall deliver you up, take no thought how or what to speak: for it shall be given you in that hour what to speak. [20] For it is not you that speak, but the Spirit of your Father that speaketh in you.
 
But I find surprising that enough Americans buy into the asymmetry of Islamic-West/American discord, heavily disfavoring American and Christian principles. The certitude of mosque proponents puzzles me, and yet, these same people are also too quick to put down the first amendment rights as it applies to one, albeit grandstanding, fringe Christian pastor from Gainesville, Florida.

Whither goest thou, America?
The lack of support for the preacher’s right to burn the Qur’an was not lost on me. Maybe he’d gone unnoticed if he hadn’t wanted a universal (global) burn the Qur’an and kept it to his church activity.

I hope you continue your posts, I for one, have found them beneficial, not in vain.

Which leads me to stating the obvious. In America, there is freedom to practice religion and there is nothing in the books saying that Muslims can’t organize their political party and run for offices. That’s an American RIGHT! It seems like we are a red and blue nation but there are other political parties and an Islamic party could very well be established. There may be one already. Our Constitution separates church and state, the lofty goals of “Islamizing America” is not likely to happen without major constitutional overhaul.
 
You became a member of the church militant at confirmation. Be a voice in the wilderness proclaiming the coming of the day of judgment. Just as God chose John the baptist, just a common man, he tasks all his sons and daughters to proclaim the faith, not just the clerics. Learn to mortify yourself for the sake of salvation. Be one of the lepers, the outcasts, and wretched. When told to conform to the world say with greater fever, NO my knee will not bend! Lord Jesus I am thy worthless servant, grant me thy mercy, wisdom, and thy strength. Let nothing happen that is outside thy will.

Mathew chapter 10​

[16] Behold I send you as sheep in the midst of wolves. Be ye therefore wise as serpents and simple as doves. [17] But beware of men. For they will deliver you up in councils, and they will scourge you in their synagogues. [18] And you shall be brought before governors, and before kings for my sake, for a testimony to them and to the Gentiles: [19] But when they shall deliver you up, take no thought how or what to speak: for it shall be given you in that hour what to speak. [20] For it is not you that speak, but the Spirit of your Father that speaketh in you.
I apologize if I came across as shirking my own responsibilities. I was focusing on the Vatican/Pope because that’s who the world sees…including the rest of us Catholics. They are to lead and guide us in the right way…and I’m getting the impression that they are giving the wrong impression to all fo us (Catholic and non-Catholic alike).
 
I apologize if I came across as shirking my own responsibilities. I was focusing on the Vatican/Pope because that’s who the world sees…including the rest of us Catholics. They are to lead and guide us in the right way…and I’m getting the impression that they are giving the wrong impression to all fo us (Catholic and non-Catholic alike).
*Dear baylee,

I have not read all of the posts on this thread but this one struck me.
I know this was a response to some one else, but I wanted to interject my two cents regarding what I emphasized.
Not having years of living and breathing the years of Apostolic Traditions, Teachings and Theologies the Church’s Apostolic Positions require behind me.
I am very hesitant to say that our Apostolic Church Leaders are “giving the wrong impression” through their leadership and guidance. But rather in knowing how much I lack in an education of Apostolic Traditions, Teachings and Theologies, and since I do not hold an Apostolic Position in the Church, it is more than likely that it is just I who does not “get” or “understand” the Church Leader’s leadership and guidance and that I need to ascend to their leadership and guidance through obedience/penance and prayer. I know that sooner or later God will enlighten me if He wills. Whether or not I want to be enlightened. And I have found, more times than not, that I have had to eat humble pie.
God helped me understand and through His Divinely Merciful Love was able to accept, that the reason I was getting the wrong impression from our Apostolic Church Leaders was not because they were “giving” a “wrong” impression or “wrong” teaching but because I had not come to understand their teachings.
Whether I liked it or not, they were leading and guiding me the right way, through their actions and words, all along.
Now, I hope and pray, I always learn from our Church leaders every time they say and do things that I “feel” I am getting the “wrong” impression from.
I know all to well that it is more likely me getting the wrong impression verses our Apostolic Church Leaders giving the wrong impression and I need to learn to be like an obedient child, do penance, pray and listen to them and try to let God mold my conscience to understand His Divinely Revealed Truth as taught to us, through the words and actions, by His Church’s current Apostolic Leaders.
 
What a condescending, patronising, insulting, arrogant post. For your information, I do my own thinking, I have always done my own thinking, I don’t wait for ‘‘orders’’. Vietnam, what a great example to being up 😃 No, America hasn’t taken either Iraq or Afghanistan - and never will. You’ll save yourself lots of embarrassment by not bigging up Uncle Sam and giving it large - wait 24 months - let’s see who’s right.
Gee, and I tried to be laid back, in that post.

Okedoke, won’t waste my breath and finger muscles trying to enlighten you. What Obama and his followers have is very dark, nothing enlightened at all. I don’t want that brand of “enlightenment”, nope.
 
The lack of support for the preacher’s right to burn the Qur’an was not lost on me. Maybe he’d gone unnoticed if he hadn’t wanted a universal (global) burn the Qur’an and kept it to his church activity.

I hope you continue your posts, I for one, have found them beneficial, not in vain.

Which leads me to stating the obvious. In America, there is freedom to practice religion and there is nothing in the books saying that Muslims can’t organize their political party and run for offices. That’s an American RIGHT! It seems like we are a red and blue nation but there are other political parties and an Islamic party could very well be established. There may be one already. Our Constitution separates church and state, the lofty goals of “Islamizing America” is not likely to happen without major constitutional overhaul.
Hello J,

It’s nice to ‘see’ you here :), and thanks for your encouraging note.

The interest on the Qu’ran burning non-event is expected to dim, but the conversation on the mosque near GZ and concern for Islam(ization) of America is likely to continue. Let’s see how it unfolds from your perspective and mine.

As you suspected, there is, in fact, an Islamic Party of America, which unequivocally declares the following. Let’s pay attention to the wordings and order of words:**We, the Islamic Political Party of America (IPPA) acknowledge ALLAH as the Sovereign Creator of the universe, who has entrusted to humanity the right and responsibility to rule over the affairs of the world. We solemnly declare that the foundation of our political positions and moving principles of our political activity is our full submission to the will of ALLAH and acknowledgement that Muhammad Ibn Abdullah is the Last Messenger of ALLAH (pbuh) and we find in him the best of conduct for the affairs of mankind. We hereby appeal to ALLAH for mercy, aid, comfort, guidance and his protection as we work to restore and preserve this Nation as a government of the People, by the People, and for the People…
**And this:
***Let it be known: Allah is our Lord, Muhammad Sallallahu 'Alaihi wa Sallam is our Messenger and Rasool Islam is our way of life. The United States is our country. Freedom is Our Right!***You can check the IPPA site here and its drop menu on Law and Justice here.

Curiously, at least for now, the site does not list people behind the party and the website, and has no stated physical address and contact information (other than a website administrator which requires a log-in first). Its articles and announcements do not indicate an author except IPPA, like this one.

It has links to published news articles (which, of course, reflect appropriate credits), articles that promote its one-sided Islamic view, containing much errors and propaganda, such as Why the West Fears Islam and The Politics of Terrorism.

The last link is too long of a read, so skip it if you are already overwhelmed. Like you, I feel that getting oneself educated on Islam and the subject of Islamization is too much sometimes.

As to your last comment that “the lofty goals of “Islamizing America” is not likely to happen without major constitutional overhaul”, I am basically in agreement and will offer my expanded thoughts on it in another post.
 
Thank you, InSearchofGrace,

For promulgating the truth about Islam.

I hope our lawmakers do not allow Sharia and other Islamic law to be practiced in our land. We must keep only the Constitution as the law of our land. One land and two laws just doesn’t last.

In closing, I believe in and wait for the Theocracy of Jesus Christ, when He comes in His glorified body from Heaven with all the Hosts of Heaven. Because, that’s what it will take to break the fanatics of any other religion than the universal church, the Catholic church.
 
Thank you, InSearchofGrace,

For promulgating the truth about Islam.
What is the truth about Islam? And does this truth differ from the teachings of holy mother church regarding Islam? It strikes me that there is a huge chasm between what I see writen here by catholics about Islam and what the catholic church says about Islam. As I said before, I for one, dont know better than holy mother church.
 
Gee, and I tried to be laid back, in that post.

Okedoke, won’t waste my breath and finger muscles trying to enlighten you. What Obama and his followers have is very dark, nothing enlightened at all. I don’t want that brand of “enlightenment”, nope.
9 years and something like 100,000 troops later, the Taliban in Afghanistan are sitting in their poppy fields laughing. The lives of women and children are as bad if not worse than ever and basic services cant be mantained. And it looks like the Taliban will end up in power or in some sort of power sharing deal eventually. Lol - oh yeah, America sure did ‘‘take’’ Afghanistan lol lol lol.
 
Just so we all are on the same page about the teachings of Holy Mother Church and Muslims, here is an extract from the Catechism:

Catechism of the Catholic Church 841
“The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”
I have no problem with the teachings of Holy Mother Church. I do have a problem with those who would commit mass murder in the name of Islam, or any other faith for that matter. In other words, if Buddhists were committing mass murder in the name of their faith, I would be just as critical. But that’s nonsense, because everyone knows that Buddhists would never do such a thing.

Funny thing is, no other faith is committing mass murder in the name of their God, only Islam. Maybe it’s only a “tiny fraction” of Islam that actually does that, or approves of it, but that “tiny fraction” may be millions of people that think mass murder is OK.

I wish that Muslims had a central authority as we do, sort of a Muslim “Pope”. Then there would be someone who could call out the murderers, “excommunicate” them (in some sort of way that makes sense to Muslims) cast them out of the faith, and in so doing call them to account for their horrible sin against their fellow humans. Unfortunately for Islam, there is so such office. So everyone is free to decide for themselves.

Islam needs reform. The warrior parts of Islam need to be left behind in the dark ages where they belong. Unless and until that occurs, the sort of murder that occurred on September 11 will be justified by some adherents to the Muslim faith. That’s just reality.
 
“The plan of salvation also includes those who acknowledge the Creator, in the first place amongst whom are the Muslims; these profess to hold the faith of Abraham, and together with us they adore the one, merciful God, mankind’s judge on the last day.”
This is what Holy Mother Church says, and she’s absolutely right.
But given that, Muslims deny Christ.
They deny sin and the need for redemption through repentance, confession and penitential action.
Too many of them seek redemption through violence because they have no savior.
They have no confessors.
They are taught to regret nothing, and give no restitution, particularly to non-Muslims.
Muslims consider their religion to be final; and they slam the door on inquiry within and beyond their faith.
There is no central authority in Islam, no Muslim teacher or cleric speaks for all. Consequently, even if the majority of Muslims want a more tolerant, modernistic interpretation of their faith, implementing it would be impossible because the machinery of administration is simply not there.
 
We can definitely be grateful for one thing ~ our Church was founded by Jesus Christ, God Incarnate.

Every other faith was founded by a man.
 
Just so we all are on the same page about the teachings of Holy Mother Church and Muslims, here is an extract from the Catechism:

Catechism of the Catholic Church 841

I have no problem with the teachings of Holy Mother Church. I do have a problem with those who would commit mass murder in the name of Islam, or any other faith for that matter. In other words, if Buddhists were committing mass murder in the name of their faith, I would be just as critical. But that’s nonsense, because everyone knows that Buddhists would never do such a thing.

Funny thing is, no other faith is committing mass murder in the name of their God, only Islam. Maybe it’s only a “tiny fraction” of Islam that actually does that, or approves of it, but that “tiny fraction” may be millions of people that think mass murder is OK.

I wish that Muslims had a central authority as we do, sort of a Muslim “Pope”. Then there would be someone who could call out the murderers, “excommunicate” them (in some sort of way that makes sense to Muslims) cast them out of the faith, and in so doing call them to account for their horrible sin against their fellow humans. Unfortunately for Islam, there is so such office. So everyone is free to decide for themselves.

Islam needs reform. The warrior parts of Islam need to be left behind in the dark ages where they belong. Unless and until that occurs, the sort of murder that occurred on September 11 will be justified by some adherents to the Muslim faith. That’s just reality.
Great post 👍
 
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