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Ridgerunner
Guest
Said the man who owes his freedom, if not his life, to American conservatism.
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Kaninchen
Guest
Actually, this particular rabbit (Kaninchen is German for rabbit) is female.
Well, I was an anti-socialist in a world where there were still communists around and, of course, the United States was a bastion of freedom, etc, etc. My families’ lives I owe to the UK and US. I’ve said, not a few times, on this board that, after some bemusement at first, I enjoyed the times we’ve lived in the US.
Feeling thankful to America doesn’t mean, however, that one has to live one’s life in constant admiration for ‘The American Way’ or be continually impressed by its politics or political thought.
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Contarini
Guest
What “UltraLeft” people or institutions are as totalitarian as the Nazis?
I forget who it was who said that anyone who brings up the Nazis in an argument should automatically lose the argument, but I think it’s a good principle. I can’t see that any group in the U.S. today–not even the Christian Reconstructionists–is worthy of being compared to the Nazis–except perhaps the very few people who actually claim to admire the Nazis. (Even they may not quite deserve the association, but they can’t very well complain if people make it.) Certainly no contemporary left-wing people I have ever met or heard of or read suggest that their enemies should be put in concentration camps or that whole categories of people should be wiped out of existence.
Edwin
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MelanieAnne
Guest
In my experience the Far Left in the US is every bit as intolerant, racist and, if not yet as controlling, then surely seeking to be so, comparable to any historical totalitarian example. It is in that sense that they toss around the term “Nazi” indiscriminately (and often completely erroneously) towards others, and it is in the same sense that many of us fling it right back at them. The analogy is not perfect. While they have not, at least not yet, advocated such extreme measures as putting people in concentration camps, their unabashed anti-Semitism is reminiscent of those who did.
The use by the Far Left of terms like “Nazi” or “Fascist” to describe their political enemies seems very ironic coming from a group that is so intolerant themselves and who, in their arrogance, believe that any opinion other than their own is wrong and/or ignorant. No doubt they would be shocked and offended to have it applied to them, but in the way that they use the term, it fits them well.
The Far Left is dominating the Democratic party, at least on some levels and they are both organized enough and strident enough to shout down opposition. All the major candidates have to at least show deference to the Far Left or they risk their wrath, which can be political suicide.
The example previously given of the ousting of Joe Lieberman from his own party is an example of their power. Although they were not ultimately successful in punishing Lieberman for his stance on the Iraq war, it was an early indication of what they could accomplish.
Back to the topic at hand, I continue to believe that while there is no reason currently to be concerned of some sort of repeat of the round up of Jews, there is good reason to be concerned about growing anti-Semitism. While we may not have caught up with Europe, the sentiment is clearly there and it is increasing. It’s not so much anti-Jew as anti-Israel, but the lines can become rather blurry at times.
I also am concerned about the reaction of the Far Left if and when they continue to be unsuccessful in imposing their will on the rest of us. So far, violence perpetrated by the Far Left has mainly been confined to isolated protests and mostly minor property damage. But given sufficient grounds for “grievance”, such as a major political loss, I truly wonder whether increased violence will be among the responses of the Far Left in expressing their discontent.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
Oops! Sorry about the gender error. Certainly, no one has to admire “The American Way”, whatever that may be to the observer. Certainly, I would think others might look at the utter confusion of American politics and the accusatory polemics, and then wonder why in the world the results seem almost always to turn out the same regardless of who wins a particular election cycle with, at most, a bit of tucking here and there around the edges.
I do think we’re poised, right now, on the threshold of another “mega-move” in terms of technology and economics, as little as it may seem so at the moment. I also think the next election (but even more, the pre-election politics) will determine whether it gathers a strong head of steam or just slugs ahead fitfully. If it turns out right, it really will have world-changing effects.
Returning to topic. Since, as I believe, anti-semitism is never really about Judaism, but is always about something else, it is my further belief that the best “distraction” for those who tend to fester in discontent that sometimes expresses itself in things like anti-semitism, is a new round of global prosperity.
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MelanieAnne
Guest
I’m all for that “distraction”, and I wholeheartedly agree with the theory that anti-Semitism, as well as many other “isms” have their roots in other issues.
I’d like to see, as a major part of that “distraction” a project on a massive scale and with the urgency of a “Manhattan Project” geared toward energy independence for the United States. It would be refreshing to be able to have our foreign policy divorced from concerns about Middle Eastern oil. It would be equally refreshing for those sitting on top of Middle Eastern oil to have to behave themselves on the world stage without being able to use their oil reserves as a bargaining chip.
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Muzhik
Guest
Oops. Sorry. I was thinking it was the name of some Manga character my daughters were reading.
Yes, it does.
I was talking about antisemitism in America on another board, and someone directed me to this YouTube video. It’s titled, “Former Nazi Explains How The Holocaust Happened”; and it’s in two parts, each part being a little under 10 minutes. The “former Nazi” summed up the Holocaust in one word: indifference. It wasn’t that the majority of the German people hated Jews, they just didn’t care what happened to them.
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Kaninchen
Guest
Not even modern Germans would let themselves off the hook that easily.
You don’t have to look very far to see how it worked - just follow a few of what I call ‘Muslim ate my hamster’ threads here . . . .
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Ridgerunner
Guest
Agreed. It would also be a good thing if they found they had to spend their oil money on their people rather than in creating mischief outside their borders.
One of the biggest tragedies in the Middle East is the fact that the Palestinians could have a thriving economy if only their leaders would allow it. If they had no oil money from Iran, they would have to depend on local resources. That is one of the biggest problems in the Middle East, and one of the greatest threats to Israel. There are people there and here who could cause a major burst of prosperity there. But they aren’t allowed to do it. A “common market” arrangement including Israel would change everything in the Middle East. It sort of operates there even now, but it’s all under the table so the Arabs won’t have to admit they do business with Israel. If it was free and open, and if labor and investment could flow, Palestinians would be too busy counting their money and buying things to bother assassinating Israelis.
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Muzhik
Guest
The thing is, a “common market” would involve the leaders of Hamas and Fatah giving up pretty much all power. They would not be able to justify their positions and salaries under such a business relationship.
I remember reading that when Egypt started the blockade of Israel that was the cause of the 6-Day War, all the Arab nations publicly supported Egypt, but the Shah of Iran was furious. He had been quietly selling Iranian oil to Israel for years. With the blockade in effect, he was loosing money, but he couldn’t say anything in public about it.
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MelanieAnne
Guest
Unfortunately the world is full of people who want to maintain the “status quo” to serve their own personal interests even if, in so doing, retaining their status works against the best interests of others.
The Palestinians are simply bargaining chips. Sad, but true. It serves the interests of some to leave them in that situation.
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Ridgerunner
Guest
There are “Palestinians” who have a great deal of business talent. But they’re not the leaders. Obviously, the present leaders of Hamas and Fatah are not among those with talents other than intrigue and murder. They have an interest in keeping their people in wretched condition, so they are dependent on Iranian oil money and world charity, and those (the leaders of Hamas & Fatah) who dole it out, instead of their own considerable talents.
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Muzhik
Guest
I don’t think of it as “letting themselves off the hook.” I think of it as the beginning of the infection. I’ve heard it preached in church that the opposite of love isn’t hate, it’s indifference. Both love and hate require involvement with the person; indifference means you lack any involvement with the person. It means truly not caring what happens to a person, for good or for evil. When you’ve reached that state towards a person or a people, then someone else can do anything they want to that person or people, knowing that you won’t do anything to stop them.
Also, could you explain the last part of your message and how it relates to “Muslims eating rodents”?
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Kaninchen
Guest
It’s my shorthand for ‘yet another thread about naughty, naughty, naughty Muslims’.Also, could you explain the last part of your message and how it relates to “Muslims eating rodents”?
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Muzhik
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Muzhik
Guest
Shalom, all! Here’s something I’ve found that relates to this thread. Has anyone here read “It Can’t Happen Here” by Sinclair Lewis? I ran across it while checking out something totally unrelated to this thread. It was written back in 1935, about Americans electing a Fascist president, who goes on to establish a Fascist government in America. It’s not as well crafted as his earlier works (“Babbit”, “Arrowsmith”) but it was much more popular, given the growth of groups of Brown Shirts, Black Shirts, Tan Shirts, etc., and how in the month it was published, William Randolph Hearst said,
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(FWIW, I ran across this when I was checking out some science fiction references. Back in the '80’s there was a science fiction miniseries called “V”, about a group of lizard-like aliens who act all nice when we first meet them, then they take over Earth. Apparently, the original script was based on the book “It Can’t Happen Here”, but the TV execs thought the American public would never accept that something like that COULD happen here. So they had to rewrite the script so that the part of the Fascists would be played by the invading Lizard Men. Sounds like maybe it’s time for a new script to be written.)
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