L.A. Archdiocese to Pay $600M to Victims

[Scottgun]

OH I forgot they turn them loose and let the sex offenders live next door http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/smilies/mad.gif

. Then in my mind the government needs to be sued just like the Catholic Church is being sued now for just moving these people from one place to another. No difference. NOT RIGHT but not different.

I think you have a VERY good point there.

Yep. And it recalls to mind The Schiltz Challenge:

Challenge #4: Explain why no psychologists have been condemned by the media.

Part of the scandals consists of the fact that bishops returned priests to the ministry after receiving treatment. Dr. Schiltz notes that in most cases, the bishops relied on the bad advice of psychologists who either told the bishop that problematic priests did not abuse children or that the problem was under control. This had horrific consequences for the victims and the Church as a whole.

The media have ignored this fact and rarely will you find the psychologists taking the heat for their bad advice. These were supposed to be among the most respected professionals in their field. No one is calling for the resignations of these “experts.” No one is publishing exposes on their errors or naming them in multi-million dollar lawsuits.

No, the media are strangely silent in finding fault with them.

 

[Sheeniac]

Yeah Ditto. Yes. It’s wrong. Yes, any Church member guilty of such things should be subjected to sever punishment including losing their position and possible criminal charges. Heck, most of us wanted Mahoney booted *long *before this hit the fan. You asked if we should move on. Well, most of us have already expressed what I just said and already at the moving on stage. Acceptable? Can I now continue to give to my (non-LA diocese) parish and not be deemed a “sucker”?

Indeed - we’re angry, but what can we do other than what we’ve already done? Voice our unhappiness and pray. We cannot force the corrupt elements in the Church to do anything more. Nor can we remain angry about something that we cannot change. There are new programs in place, some hotly debated, to deal with such issues and prevent more problems.

What good does it do for me to vent? Indeed, I fear that if I give voice to my deepest feelings, I may be sinning!

 

[tomarin]

The rationalization of evil still prevails. What don’t you all understand about evil?

as catholics, we believe there’s quite a lot of evil in the world that the church opposes – in fact secular society is drowing in it. our only lifeline is the Church, even if it is led by men who are human beings and therefore by definition at risk of falling into sin.

what the pedophile priests did and those bishops’ involvement in the cover-up was in fact evil and deserves a moral response. it goes against everything we believe in and what the church teaches. but we would be throwing out the baby with the bathwater if we stopped going to church and worshipping god, and there’s no guarantee if went to a different non-catholic church that we would not encounter similar problems there. the press loves it when a priest falters and falls into sin and in the case of sexual abuse even more so. our protestant bretheren largely get a pass on this.

 

[Scottgun]

and there’s no guarantee if went to a different non-catholic church that we would not encounter similar problems there. the press loves it when a priest falters and falls into sin and in the case of sexual abuse even more so. our protestant bretheren largely get a pass on this.

And not just other churches, *but anywhere where older folk have authority over younger. *And with the same frequency generally. This is not to pass the buck at all because it is wrong wherever it happens, even in our own Church. But the media only covers the Church (or, granted, unusual and sensational cases like high-school female teachers and male students) because they are operating on a pet presupposition that they hope everyone will swallow. Namely, that celibacy causes repression and repression breeds deviant behavior. Therefore, Chruch disciplines and teachings cause evil. (Remember people saying the Pope is resposible for AIDS in Africa? Same thinking.) The facts of course don’t support this, but that hasn’t stopped people with an axe to grind.

So this isn’t rationalizing this at all because we recognize the wrongness wherever it is found. BUT is perfectly just to point out that there is some agenda-pushing coming from certain quarters and it is a case of the Devil willing to spend a dollar’s worth of truth to get us to accept another dollar of lies.

 

[Vittorio23]

I don’t mean to sound heartless or cold or anything to that sort, but I am truly curious, how does millions of dollars heal anything for individual victims? Besides paying for treatment/counseling, how does money solve anything?

I do not understand the concept of suing for “grievences” past the aforementioned needs. Is this not introducing a theme that “money buys happiness”?

Why is money even the issue here? Sure, the victims want the perpetrators to be held accountable-- but who is being held accountable right now?

Why is this issue a civil one and not criminal?

 

[dina775]

The public schools transfer teachers (protected by the union) or let them resign and give them good references. So they teach in our schools.
The courts give them probation and the ACLU gives them protections. So they live near our children.
Nothing will change until the laws change.

You’re absolutely right. I have always been saying this.
I think if the laws were different then the church would certainly have done differently because then they would have had the law behind them. But because most of the time no prosecution would even be brought they did what they could.

A friend of mine had been in a day care as a child and the husband of the lady who ran the place messed with her brother. Her mother pressed charges but the police who did basically nothing about it (this was in the 70’s) and the day care ran until the late 80’s when Ms. ‘P*’ retired.

Her husband wasn’t brought to any kind of justice till five years ago when his daughter in law turned him in for dallying with the grandson. Grandpa got 6 months in jail and 18 month probation. THATS IT!!! 6 months for destroying a little boys world.

No doubt there was a lot of covering up in the church…this is a societal sin. There are some families where this kind of thing goes back generations…no one ever reports it.
Today they spoke of the the Jessica Lunsford ‘law’ that would require Sex offenders to were tracking devices.
'scuse me…what about being sent to jail for LIFE???

If they had the monster who killed little Jessie IN PRISON FOR LIFE…for the offenses he had been previously convicted of, then she would still be alive.
Dina~

 

[dina775]

I was waiting for the outrage! But what the responses show is very clear - that most of you give the Church a pass or prefer to rationalize the endemic disease away.
Corrupt - yes. Because without the sacrifices of these victims and hard work of the legal teams, none of this would have been forthcoming.

Out rage at the criminals and monsters who did the raping YES!
But they aren’t the ones paying for the crimes…innocent catholics are.

The 660 million represents many charities and services to the poor that wont be happening now.

Like I said before…this who thing has to be turned into tough REAL laws against sexual predators.
They need to be jailed for life.
dina

 

[dina775]

If a teacher goes after a 12 year old, then he/she should be fired and subsequently jailed and fined for statutory rape. Many are, admittedly more males than females though. Does the same not apply to priests? Or, shall school districts just start protecting the pedophilic teachers by giving them ‘counseling’ before moving them around the country in different positions?.

They already do that.
dina

 

[DWPC]

When we hear about a suicide bombing by an Islamist, the response is often “So where are the moderate Muslims?”.

There’s a parallel in our scandal. Where were the rank-and-file American Catholics? How many many showed up at demonstrations to support victims? How many wrote letters to Rome demanding tough discipline of pervert-enabling bishops? Damn few. I now wish I had personally done more to express my outrage. I think a few huge Catholic crowds at such events early on would have completely changed the way this scandal was handled and perceived by non-Catholics.

 

[Scottgun]

When we hear about a suicide bombing by an Islamist, the response is often “So where are the moderate Muslims?”.

There’s a parallel in our scandal. Where were the rank-and-file American Catholics? How many many showed up at demonstrations to support victims? How many wrote letters to Rome demanding tough discipline of pervert-enabling bishops? Damn few. I now wish I had personally done more to express my outrage. I think a few huge Catholic crowds at such events early on would have completely changed the way this scandal was handled and perceived by non-Catholics.

Actually they did. When Cardinal Law was in the thick of it, rank-and-file Catholics responded by witholding conrtributions when the basket was passed and ta-dah! Resignation. Now I’ll grant I am a little less sure if the LA laity will start holding Mahoney’s feet to the fire.

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

Why is this issue a civil one and not criminal?

It’s not criminal because in most cases it’s long past the statute of limitations. Many of the priests who have been accused are dead so that on the one hand they can’t defend themselves and on the other, they can’t be punished by the courts anyway.

Several years ago the California legislature opened a one-year window that threw out the statute of limitations on civil cases involving sexual abuse or molestation. This settlement is the result of the cases that were filed during that year.

What I don’t understand is what about all those records??

Releasing the personnel files on these priests is part of the settlement. However, the priests involved have the right to contest the release of their own files and a judge will have to decide. I heard a quote on the news that the lawyers expect it to take years since in all likelihood, each priest or former priest will contest the release.

 

[dina775]

Releasing the personnel files on these priests is part of the settlement. However, the priests involved have the right to contest the release of their own files and a judge will have to decide. I heard a quote on the news that the lawyers expect it to take years since in all likelihood, each priest or former priest will contest the release.

So who’s protecting who now?
We have a right to see those files.
They should not be allowed to contest any release, and the church should just release the files. Let each convicted pedophile pay the church back to get the files back. Those files have valuable information as to how those monsters where able to fool so many people and get into the ministry.

Each convicted pedophile involved should be held responsible for breach of contract in any case. They have no rights to those files.

Since the church paid for the crimes, then the records belong to the church. We as laity have the RIGHT to know what is in those personal files of those convicted pedophiles directly involved.

As far as where are the ‘outraged’ catholics?
It was the outraged catholics who brought this all out in the open!!!

Let the outraged non-catholic Christians, muslims, teachers, policeman etc look to their own houses.

I think a lot of Catholics like myself also saw the bigger picture.
What was the criminal penalty for pedophilia in the 50’s, 60’s 70’s etc?
A fine, few months in jail? Mandated counseling and community service?
What?
Doe anyone know?

From my own personal experience, I have not seen anyone actually put in jail for more the 2 yrs for this crime, even now…the child has to have been seriously hurt or killed before actual real time is put on them.

Even John J. Geoghan was only sentenced to 10 yrs for his monstrous crimes because that is the MAXIMUM allowed!

If he had been someones grandfather he would have gotten a slap on the wrist…nothing more.
I’m sorry…but thats the real outrage!

I just see a lot of hypocrisy
D~.

 

[Scottgun]

So who’s protecting who now?
We have a right to see those files.
They should not be allowed to contest any release, and the church should just release the files. Let each convicted pedophile pay the church back to get the files back. Those files have valuable information as to how those monsters where able to fool so many people and get into the ministry.

Each convicted pedophile involved should be held responsible for breach of contract in any case. They have no rights to those files.

Since the church paid for the crimes, then the records belong to the church. We as laity have the RIGHT to know what is in those personal files of those convicted pedophiles directly involved.

While I would agree in principle, I would need to hear from someone with a legal background comment on settlements and how it pertains to file ownership.

As far as where are the ‘outraged’ catholics?
It was the outraged catholics who brought this all out in the open!!!

I agree.

Let the outraged non-catholic Christians, muslims, teachers, policeman etc look to their own houses.

I agree also, but add that since most of us also use school and police services, we should certainly raise a stink when wrongdoing is found in those places.

I think a lot of Catholics like myself also saw the bigger picture.
What was the criminal penalty for pedophilia in the 50’s, 60’s 70’s etc?
A fine, few months in jail? Mandated counseling and community service?
What?
Doe anyone know?

No idea, but would like to know.

From my own personal experience, I have not seen anyone actually put in jail for more the 2 yrs for this crime, even now…the child has to have been seriously hurt or killed before actual real time is put on them.

Even John J. Geoghan was only sentenced to 10 yrs for his monstrous crimes because that is the MAXIMUM allowed!

If he had been someones grandfather he would have gotten a slap on the wrist…nothing more.
I’m sorry…but thats the real outrage!

I just see a lot of hypocrisy
D~.

This is another area that I would like the opinion of someone in the legal field. Certainly itis distressing to see someone get a sentence we think too light. But we have to take into account the details of the case. I may think it stinks that a guy got a deal for 2 years, but if the prosecuter was weak on evidence or blundered badly at trial, that guy might very well walk which would really stink. Which makes me wonder about the sealed files again. That is, if the victims wanted the files open to everyone, it seems they should have refused the deal. But I’m just musing here without any real knowledge. Good points though.

 

[JimR-OCDS]

Actually they did. When Cardinal Law was in the thick of it, rank-and-file Catholics responded by witholding conrtributions when the basket was passed and ta-dah! Resignation. Now I’ll grant I am a little less sure if the LA laity will start holding Mahoney’s feet to the fire.

I live in Massachusetts and followed the Archdiocese of Boston scandal closely. What got Cardinal Law in the biggest trouble with Catholics, was the case of Father Shandley, who was a well know pedophile, within the Archdioceses. Cardinal Law, saw an window of opportunity to get rid of the problem, when Shandley applied for ministry in the San Bernardino Dioceses. Cardinal Law, despite knowing Shandley’s past, wrote a glowing letter of recommendation to the Bishop, on the behalf of Shandley. Once Catholics saw copies of the letter in the local Boston Papers, any support for the Cardinal evaporated.

Jim

 

[SuscipeMeDomine]

So who’s protecting who now?
We have a right to see those files.

Does the public have a right to see your personnel files? Even if your employer settled a lawsuit by saying they’d be released?

Let each convicted pedophile…

And that’s where you run into a problem. They haven’t been convicted of anything. The church settled a civil suit.

I’m as disgusted by pedophile priests as everyone else. But they still have rights, especially since they didn’t agree to the settlement, the archdiocese did.

At this point I’m much more angry at Mahony than anyone else. He’s the one who moved priests around, he’s the one who tried to cover things up and avoid testifying. He’s the one who approved a $600+ million settlement. Think about the good things the church could do with that money. Think about not only what’s being done today but what effect it could have long into the future.

Yes, the individual priests did totally evil things. But their boss also has a responsibility here.

 

[gam197]

originally posted by JimR-OCDS
What got Cardinal Law in the biggest trouble with Catholics,

Cardinal Law didn’t come to Boston until the mid 1980’s where cases like Father Porter went way back to the 1960’s. Law wasn’t from MA and he wasn’t a local boy.

By the time Law came to Boston and was made Cardinal was well after most of these cases occurred.

 

[gam197]

According to his bio, Mahony was made Archbishop in 1985 and Cardinal in 1991.

Most of the cases were in the 50’s, 60’s 70’s and 80’s and started to come out in the 80’s and especially in 1990 with the major case of Father Porter.

Mahony says he knew nothing about these abuse cases and this is quite possible? I wonder if he will be forced to leave.

 

[KathleenElsie]

And this is why those that abuse children keep doing it. Why those that will do it in the future will do it and the courts just let them off. Even when they get caught they don’t get punished. The little people of the Catholic Church are being punished with the taking of the money that was intended to provide services for them.

**

Short Sex Offender’s Probation Upheld​

By JOSH FUNK,
AP
Posted: 2007-07-17 17:27:22
OMAHA, Neb. (AP) - A judge had valid reasons for sentencing a 5-foot-1 sex offender to probation, even though she cited the offender’s height as part of her rationale, the Nebraska Court of Appeals ruled Tuesday.

An examination by a clinical psychologist and the results of a test used to determine the risk that Richard W. Thompson would reoffend both indicated that Thompson, 52, is neither a pedophile nor a sexual predator, the court said.

District Judge Kristine Cecava of Cheyenne County sentenced Thompson last year to 10 years of probation for sexually assaulting a 13-year-old girl.

“So I’m sitting here thinking this guy has earned his way to prison, but then I look at you and I look at your physical size. I look at your basic ability to cope with people and, quite frankly, I shake to think what might happen to you in prison because I don’t think you’ll do well in prison,” Cecava said in court, according to a court transcript of the hearing.

The sentence prompted national criticism. Attorney General Jon Bruning appealed the sentence to the Nebraska Court of Appeals and sought a prison term for Thompson.

The appeals court said the only way Cecava might have erred was in failing to provide a detailed explanation of her sentence. The probation officer who prepared a pre-sentence investigation on Thompson recommended probation, the court said.

“Such failure caused the trial judge’s brief mention of Thompson’s small physical stature to become the focus of attention, when in reality it was but a minor point,” the court said.

Bruning said he planned to ask the state Supreme Court to review the appellate court’s ruling because he believes sexual assault of a child is a serious offense that warrants jail time.

“The law does not impose a height requirement for jail,” Bruning said.

Thompson’s lawyer, Clarence Mock, said the problem in this case was that people jumped to conclusions without knowing all the details. Thompson is doing well and has abided by the terms of his sentence, Mock said.

Copyright 2007 The Associated Press. The information contained in the AP news report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or otherwise distributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press. All active hyperlinks have been inserted by AOL.

07/17/07 17:26 EDT
******

 

[Sheeniac]

According to his bio, Mahony was made Archbishop in 1985 and Cardinal in 1991.

Most of the cases were in the 50’s, 60’s 70’s and 80’s and started to come out in the 80’s and especially in 1990 with the major case of Father Porter.

Mahony says he knew nothing about these abuse cases and this is quite possible? I wonder if he will be forced to leave.

Would he still be involved in the cover-ups if this is true?

 

[Catholic29]

Submitting his resignation to Pope Benedict would be the best thing Mahony could do at this point. Although I should admit his departure will be for myself bittersweet to a certain degree.