Lashing of Saudi 13 year old girl

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Haadi said:
Correction:

I just read a report in that came from the ministry of Justice and here is the main points:

*The student is in her **twenties **(born in 1989) and therefore the court dealt with her as an adult and not as a minor.

*the main reason behind the case is that the student made death threats to the school’s director and then entered her office and attacked her physically. the director was then hospitalized for 5 days.

moj.gov.sa/newsresult.aspx?id=1365
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It looks to me like this whole thing was cooked up and slanted in an attempt to put Saudi Arabia, the good friend of the USA, in a bad light.
 
stanmaxkolbe said:
I’ve served in Saudi Arabia the majority of the Saudi people I’ve met are good people.

You must understand the Royal family rules that country but they don’t run it.

The Mullahs run it and if the Mullahs say overthrow the current Royal family the Saudi people will do it. So the Royal family is in a sticky situation but for years the Royal family i.e. the Kings have been putting reforms into the Kingdom but they have done it one step at time.

Just to get Radio in the Kingdom was a major feat. The King said he wanted to modernize the Kingdom by putting in Radio stations. The Mullahs were against it.

So the King had a meeting with the head Mullahs and as they’re having this meeting the King turns on a Radio, and what do they hear?

A Mullah reading the Holy Quran, the King said, “Is this not a good thing? We can spread the Word of God to the people in the Desert”? So the Mullahs agreed this is good and gave him permission to bring Radio into the Kingdom. I hope you noticed they gave him permission.

We Americans and others in the west need to understand that the two most Holy Cities in Islam is in the Saudi Kingdom if the Royal family gets stupid the entire Islamic world will rise up against them and take them out. The Royal family is very good allies with the United States has been since WWII. As for people complaining about the oil thing you need to look at American history:

Below is an answer I posted months ago to somebody who talked about American imperialism:

Now here is some real American history:

Views of American history, distort our present policies. Involvement in far-flung and unpopular conflicts doesn’t represent a recent innovation or the result of some conspiratorial takeover of U.S. foreign policy. American military involvement in remote corners of the globe characterized every stage of our emergence as a world power. The purpose of these conflicts and interventions has little connection to colonialism or conquest or empire building in the classical sense. More often the United States has done this for unselfish intentions. Regardless of the wisdom behind these frequent military or diplomatic initiatives, their overall, long-term impact most often benefited the peoples involved as well as the world at large.

Unlike other empires in human history, the powerful American sphere of influence has generally promoted the cause of both prosperity and liberty.

People forget the United States fought its first war against Islamic extremism more than two hundred years ago. This is where we get the first verse of the “Marines’ Hymn” “to the shores of Tripoli."

The first Barbary War (1801-5) lasted four years after President Thomas Jefferson sent the new Navy to the Mediterranean to protect American interests and honor. The semi-nations of Algeria, Tunisia, and Tripoli [today Libya] functioned like today’s State sponsors of terrorism backing ruthless pirates who devastated U.S. shipping until Washington paid lavish tribute to these local thugs.

The United States has a long-standing tradition of small wars or so-called low intensity conflicts. If you study U.S. military history it has a tradition of fighting small wars. Between 1800 and 1934, U.S. Marines staged 180 landings abroad. The army and navy added a few small-scale engagements of their own. Some resulted in heavy casualties; others involved not fighting. Most of these campaigns were fought by a small number of professional soldiers. I can testify to this from some of the missions I was involved in though the 1970s -1990s.

I just want to scream when I hear not well educated on the subject or left wing Hollywood stars, politicians and educated life wing college professors totally distort the Bush administration Iraq policy saying this is the first time we have ever attacked a country without being attacked first. They are either ignorant of the facts or dishonest!

Do I agree with the Saudi justice system well as a Catholic I think you know the answer?

I’ve serve beside Egyptian and Saudi military met the civilian people and they’re good people they’re just like us just different religions.
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Great post Stan. Thinking people around the world know this stuff. Some have been there with you all the way too. 👍
 
sidbrown said:
Is this a crude attempt to bash and ridicule the Muslim religion or what?
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It is a crude attempt to bash those who defend a culture that would give a thirteen year old ninety lashes.

Why would I even want the respect of people that think that this kind of punishment is a good thing, that this is the kind of friends we ought to have?
 
Extremely Barbaric and excessive if you ask me.
Surely they could have chosen a much lighter punishment that would have been just as effective of getting their lawful point across.
 
i don’t mean to come out on the side of corporeal punishment, but isn’t caning practically the national pastime in the UK? The student’s even get to cane each other if they get to be a prefect. Almost every British movie has an overzealous caning scene in it. How are they any different from the Saudi’s, if indeed the Saudi’s don’t lash people hundreds of times all at once?
 
Darryl1958 said:
Why would I even want the respect of people that think that this kind of punishment is a good thing, that this is the kind of friends we ought to have?
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Addicts overlook a lot of things to get their fix. We need oil.
 
Ha ha, no, I just mentioned the movies as others might have noticed this too. I didn’ t know that caning was illegal in the UK now so at the time of my post it was a good example to compare to the Saudi punishment. But it does seem that it was ingrained in the culture when it was legal.
 
carinapir said:
i don’t mean to come out on the side of corporeal punishment, but isn’t caning practically the national pastime in the UK? The student’s even get to cane each other if they get to be a prefect. Almost every British movie has an overzealous caning scene in it. How are they any different from the Saudi’s, if indeed the Saudi’s don’t lash people hundreds of times all at once?
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Not in regular English schools.Maybe the english still cane in the elite schools .you’ve been reading too many Dickens and Victorian novels.🙂
 
a_priori said:
Addicts overlook a lot of things to get their fix. We need oil.
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I can appreciate why the American government might stifle itself in its dealings with SA. Oil is not just an addiction, but is like food. It an absolute necessity to the global economy. Without oil, the economy would be dead.

For ordinary posters to be happy with such violence against children is quite another matter. I neither seek not want to be in the good graces of people such as those.
 
I’m pleased to hear this. When I was an primary school student attending a Catholic school in Glasgow, Scotland, children, including myself, regularly received “the strap” for perceived misdeeds. For those unfamiliar with the strap, it was a a belt of leather slapped hard against the inner sides of one’s lower arms three or four times. When I returned to the States, particularly Texas, it was quite common for male students in public schools to receive “the board of education” for such crimes as wearing your shirttail outside your jeans or having hair that touched the collar of your shirt. As you can imagine, the board was a large, wooden paddle, with or without holes carved into it, which was slapped against the student’s rear end two or three times. Now, neither of these forms of punishment can be remotely compared to the punishment the woman / child in Saudi Arabia is condemned to receive, and neither caused excessive physical damage to the recipient, but the humiliation of receiving this punishment, especially if one felt too harshly judged, was enough to create contempt on the part of the student for authority. I would say these forms of punishment did not serve the interests of the students, the teachers, or the schools very well.
 
sidbrown said:
It is in the news that there are Catholics who use self-flagellation in modern times. So flagellation may not be as barbaric and excessive as you think.
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A choice, may I point out. One makes oneself the victim under such circumstances. A 13-year-old being abused is clearly not the same thing.
 
I agree with your former teacher about corporal punishment. It is a sign that the teacher has lost control and has little means of regaining it. Going even further, I would think that corporal punishment itself does little to reaffirm the teacher’s authority in class as it creates a confrontational atmosphere in class which marks the recipient of the punishment as a kind of anti - hero to the rest of his classmates. He receives a certain status among his peers which makes his misdeeds seem heroic and encourages imitation. What often bothered me about corporal punishment was that it was seldom seen as a means of establishing justice, either on the part of the students or of the teachers. Teachers were generally indifferent to whether a student was receiving the punishment justly or not. They were not interested in listening to the student’s side of the issue and performed the punishment almost as if it amused them. This is closer to tyranny than justice. When students perceive this, the moral authority which must accompany a teacher in his classroom, is lost and his words, wise or not, ring hollow. He isn’t worth listening to.
 
Haadi said:
please read my post #106 , the student is not 13 she is 20
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From what I’ve read, the age of the student in question is in dispute. The government of Saudi Arabia does indeed claim that the student is 20, but other organizations monitoring the case, including human rights organizations, claim the student is a teen, perhaps as young as 13.
 
Fox News quoted from the Daily Mail which quoted from *Al-watan *News Paper.

dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1244689/Saudi-girl-13–sentenced-90-lashes-took-mobile-phone-school.html
Daily Mail said:
said Al-Watan, a Saudi newspaper.
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The problem is , Al-Watan did not say she was 13… all they say is that she is in Junior School …so the Daily Mail wrongfully assumed that means she is 13…while in fact, she is in the elderly education (a program for illiterate and old students in the same school)

here is the Al-Watan NewsPaper link (Arabic, you can use Google translator if you wish)

alwatan.com.sa/news/newsdetail.asp?issueno=3400&id=133093&groupID=0

Now all of that has been refuted by The Ministry of Justice official website, again in Arabic, but you can use Google to check it…

moj.gov.sa/newsresult.aspx?id=1365

here is a comment made by a peer to that student:
انا احدى طالبات هذه المدرسة، والطالبة عمرها 22 عام(طالبة تعليم كبيرات نهاري) ولم يحكم بهذا الحكم إلا لوجود عدة مشاكل سابقة مع الطالبات ومع المديرة وقد قامت في العام الماضي بتهديد المديرة بالقتل والاعتداء عليها بالضرب.
ريم
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Trans : I am one of the students in that school, and the student’s age is 22 (student on elderly education ) and this judgment was done after previous issues with both her classmates and the director. she made death threats last year and made physical attack on her.
Reem

Just because SA has HR abuses (which I agree), does not mean we can attack her using false claims.
 
Haadi said:
please read my post #106 , the student is not 13 she is 20
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HI welcome to CAF.👋

I don’t care if she’s fifty lashing is unacceptable to me.

Yeah I was spanked on the butt with a wooden paddle when I was kid by school teachers but that is a lot different from lashing on the back.

As I stated earlier I served in the Kingdom and the majority of Saudi people I’ve met are good people, I disagree with their justice system and if you talk to most Saudi’s they do too; just not in public.
 
Haadi said:
Fox News quoted from the Daily Mail which quoted from *Al-watan *News Paper.

dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1244689/Saudi-girl-13–sentenced-90-lashes-took-mobile-phone-school.html

The problem is , Al-Watan did not say she was 13… all they say is that she is in Junior School …so the Daily Mail wrongfully assumed that means she is 13…while in fact, she is in the elderly education (a program for illiterate and old students in the same school)

here is the Al-Watan NewsPaper link (Arabic, you can use Google translator if you wish)

alwatan.com.sa/news/newsdetail.asp?issueno=3400&id=133093&groupID=0

Now all of that has been refuted by The Ministry of Justice official website, again in Arabic, but you can use Google to check it…

moj.gov.sa/newsresult.aspx?id=1365

here is a comment made by a peer to that student:

Trans : I am one of the students in that school, and the student’s age is 22 (student on elderly education ) and this judgment was done after previous issues with both her classmates and the director. she made death threats last year and made physical attack on her.
Reem

Just because SA has HR abuses (which I agree), does not mean we can attack her using false claims.
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It looks like both Fox News and many of the people on this thread have been giving us false and slanderous information.
 
Lutheranteach said:
IT’s true…as someone who has taught in inner city schools it is definitely true. Nothing like having a kid some right up to your face and spit in you for asking her to please sit down and then having the principal say:“she must have been having a bad day. Let’s give her time to cool down and bring her back to class in a half hour.”

My 75 year old neighbor lady can show you the bends in her fingers where a nun broke them with a ruler 60 years ago…so we’re not all that far removed in a way.
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My friend went to Lutheran schools and she was verbally and emotionally abused by the administrators of the school. The school favored certain families who had more money or some social status. She still hasn’t recovered from the treatment she and her family received at that school. We never spoke about physical abuse. In public school when I was young they paddled you, so I guess if you call certain actions abuse, then you must admit it went on in both secular and religious schools.

Yours in the Hearts of Jesus and Mary

Bernadette
 
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