LDS and JW's

[Dan_Parker]

Dan:
What part of what you wrote are not “well known” historical facts? …

zerinus:
I think that all of them are well known historical facts!

Dan:
That is fair enough, evidently you were trying not to be dogmatic. However you have yet to provide any documentation to validated your view that these are facts. Until you do this, it is your opinion and will be considered as such.

Dan:

In addition, while what you write may contain “facts” they may not be pertinent to our discussion. For example, you claim the Roman army was Pagan (a fact!) and that this is the only reason Christians would not join the army (what I question). …

zerinus:
I never said that was the only reason. I listed a number of reasons, and said that was one of them.

Dan:
My challenge to you, should you choose to accept it, is to actually prove your points.

Dan:
You claim that it is acceptable for Christians to fight in armies who are defending and not aggressors. Would you characterize the war in Vietnam as one where Americans were defending against attacks on their families?

zerinus:
Whether it was or wasn’t, is beside the point. If it wasn’t a just war, we shouldn’t have fought it; if it was, then we should have.

Dan:
My point is that you are making claims, and evidently supporting the view that Christians who are born in the US can and should be part of the military establishment. I have made the point, to which you have not yet responded, that those who enlist don’t have the option to not fight if they don’t think the war is just. Do you deny this???

In addition, you have not demonstrated that that any war fought by men which was not explicitly commanded by God is a just war. Until you do this, your claim that a war is just is your opinion and not evidence for your position.

Dan:
How do you view a Christian in one country killing another Christian, even one of their own denomination (ie Catholics killing Catholics, LDS killing LDS)?

zerinus:
Again, that is irrelevant. If an army attacking my country is the aggressor, I have a duty to defend my country against it, even if it happens to have LDS people in it.

Dan:
It is not irrelevant! Do you accept the command of Jesus to love your brother or the command of your country to kill your brother? (John 13:35)

Dan:
I am not arguing for or against countries forming their own military forces. They are clearly entitled to do this. What I question is whether or not a Christian would participate.

zerinus:
If it is right to fight that war, it is right for Christians to participate in it. That is a duty they owe to their country. If it is wrong to fight that war, it is wrong for everybody, not just for Christians. There isn’t one rule of right and wrong for Christians, and a different rule for everybody else.

Dan:
I did not state that it was “right” or “just” for those countries to fight that war. The authority of Adolf Hitler to fight his war is the same authority as any other country, but what he did was not “right.” Since Hitler was permitted by God to form his army was it “right” for Catholics, Protestants and other denominations of Christendom to fight on his behalf and kill their brothers in other lands?

And yes, there are different rules for Christians than for others.
James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth [it] not, to him it is sin. (KJV)

Christians are under the law of Christ – Ga 6:2 Bear ye one another’s burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ.

I provided you what God said was the reason. Let me repeat it.

NRS 1 Chronicles 22:8 But the word of the LORD came to me, saying, 'You have shed much blood and have waged great wars; you shall not build a house to my name, because you have shed so much blood in my sight on the earth.

Since I don’t know you, would you mind answering whether or not you believe the bible is inspired and true? Do you believe the words in 1 Chronicles 22:8? The verse is quite clear in establishing the reason why David could not build the temple. The word “because” establishes this. What Saul failed to do is not pertinent to the question of why David could not build the temple or the fact that Christians ARE the temple.

zerinus:
I think the point you are bringing up is not pertinent. The fact that God said that to David about building of the temple does not mean that David shouldn’t have fought those wars.

David fought those wars, many of them, because God had commanded him. And just as it was right for David to fight those wars when God approved of them, it is right for Christians to fight wars that are just. God didn’t tell David, “Don’t fight those wars, because afterwards you won’t be able to build the temple!” On the contrary, He commanded him to fight those wars. Therefore whether he could afterwards build the temple or not has no bearing on the rights or wrongs of whether he should have fought those wars or not. The same applies to Christians.

Dan:
I did not claim that David should not have fought those wars. Remember, I called those wars just because ***God ***authorized them. You are missing my point and so I will give you the opportunity to respond again. My point is that even though David was authorized to fight those wars it **disqualified **him from building the temple. Christian **are **the temple and must be holy to **be **that temple. If David could not build the temple because of being a military man, then how much more so could Christians not kill others in war when they are the very temple of God themselves!

-Dan

 

[Dan_Parker]

I’ve been a lurker for the past 5-6 pages…

And since you’ve invited me to comment, I will!

I did not know that JWs discourage higher education, as proposed by zerinus. And, it seems to me, that djdave, while seeming to counter zerinus’ accusation, has actually confirmed it. It does seem that JWs discourage its members receiving a* formal* education at our universities. I find that a sad commentary on the JWs.

Jehovah’s Witnesses are not discouraged from getting the education they need to support their families and their ministry. However, when one is baptized as one of Jehovah’s witnesses we are making a public declaration of the dedication we have made to be primarily ministers of God and his Christ.

As ministers we work to support our ministry. Our ministry is our vocation and as such we do not dilute our dedication to God and this ministry by attempting to advance in secular pursuits.

This we do because we love God and Christ and our neighbor, not because we are told we must. Anyone who does not choose this life for themselves of their own free will is not encouraged to be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

-Dan

 

[JaMc]

Interesting to see non-Catholics debate each other on here for a change :coffeeread:

The exchange between our Mormon and JW friends makes it clear that there are very few similarities between the two, other than that they are both vastly different from Catholics theologically.

 

[dj_dave]

Could you post what the book has to say about Catholicism?

It goes from pages 216-337 covering a number of facets of the church andthe rest of Christendom. Why not ask one of Jehovah’s witnesses for a copy–it’s free or they will accept a small donation toward the worldwide work if you want.

Here is abreif excerpt *** sh chap. 10 pp. 235-236 Christianity—Was Jesus the Way to God? ***

Christianity—Was Jesus the Way to God?
So far, with the exception of the chapter on Judaism, we have considered major religions that are based to a large extent on mythology. Now we will examine another religion that claims to bring mankind nearer to God—Christianity. What is the basis for Christianity—myth or historical fact?

THE history of Christendom, with its wars, inquisitions, crusades, and religious hypocrisy, has not helped the cause of Christianity. Devout Muslims and others point to the moral corruption and decadence of the Western, “Christian” world as a basis for rejecting Christianity. Indeed, the so-called Christian nations have lost their moral rudder and have suffered shipwreck on the rocks of faithlessness, greed, and self-indulgence.

2 That the standards of original Christianity were different from the permissive mores of today is attested to by Professor Elaine Pagels in her book Adam, Eve, and the Serpent, wherein she states: “Many Christians of the first four centuries took pride in their sexual restraint; they eschewed polygamy and often divorce as well, which Jewish tradition allowed; and they repudiated extramarital sexual practices commonly accepted among their pagan contemporaries, practices including prostitution and homosexuality.”

3 Therefore, it is fair to ask, Is Christendom’s history and its modern moral state a true reflection of the teachings of Jesus Christ? What kind of man was Jesus? Did he help to bring mankind nearer to God? Was he the promised Messiah of Hebrew prophecy? These are some of the questions we shall consider in this chapter.

and here is a glimpse at the last few paragraphs in this chapter…pars. 37-38 Christianity—Was Jesus the Way to God? ***
But storm clouds soon gathered. The Romans became apprehensive of this new and apparently atheistic religion that had no idols. Starting with Emperor Nero, they brought down terrible persecution upon the Christians in the first three centuries of our Common Era. Many Christians were condemned to die in the coliseums, to satisfy the sadistic bloodlust of the emperors and the mobs who flocked to see prisoners being thrown to wild beasts.
38 Another disturbing factor in those early days was something that the apostles had prophesied. For example, Peter stated: “However, there also came to be false prophets among the people, as there will also be false teachers among you. These very ones will quietly bring in destructive sects and will disown even the owner that bought them, bringing speedy destruction upon themselves.” (2Peter 2:1-3) Apostasy! That was a falling away from true worship, a compromising with the current religious trends of the Roman world, which was saturated with Greek philosophy and thought. How did it come about? Our next chapter will answer that and related questions.—Acts 20:30; 2Timothy 2:16-18; 2 Thessalonians 2:3.

Call them or wait till they come by. They will be happy to leave you with a copy.

(NEW EDIT)
"My mistake they are not all interviews…many are quotes " (Taking in context)
From a variety of publications with interviews in them

 

[PRmerger]

It goes from pages 216-337 covering a number of facets of the church andthe rest of Christendom. Why not ask one of Jehovah’s witnesses for a copy–it’s free or they will accept a small donation toward the worldwide work if you want.

Oh. disappointed. I thought you said you would send me the article, and by “send” I assumed it would be electronically here and we could then discuss the JW’s concept of Catholicism on this forum.

 

[PRmerger]

WE also discourage having firearms in the home (excluding Hunters for food not sport), pot, dating different people without the intent to mary, sex without marriage; Bad associations; R rated Movies; pornography; Over drinking; lying; BUT IT IS STILL UP TO THE INDIVIDUAL TO DECIDE…ect.-- Yes, most of what we discourage does go against popular opinon (Matt. 7:14) DID you even read the scriptural reasons we cited?/

Well, yes, dave, I did read the Scriptural reasons you cited. But, I find that you could also apply them to discourage any modern concept. Such as the automobile. Every single verse you cited could be used to discourage use of the automobile.

 

[zerinus]

I’ve been a lurker for the past 5-6 pages…

And since you’ve invited me to comment, I will!

I did not know that JWs discourage higher education, as proposed by zerinus. And, it seems to me, that djdave, while seeming to counter zerinus’ accusation, has actually confirmed it. It does seem that JWs discourage its members receiving a* formal* education at our universities. I find that a sad commentary on the JWs.

Thank you for your comments. The JW religion does more than that. When you become a JW, it tries to limit your association with your former circle of relatives and friends, and even family members. Instead it creates for you a social network that is exclusively JW, until you become emotionally dependent on it, so that leaving it, or being cut off from it, becomes a traumatic, and for some even devastating experience. And then it holds the sword of that threat over your head if you step out of line. It attracts people with a certain kind of emotional vulnerability; and then exploits that vulnerability to make them emotionally dependent on itself. Then it leverages that dependency to get them do what it wants. It wants from them two things: (1) to recruit more JWs, and (2) to support them financially.

Okay, I don’t like it when other people bash Mormonism, and so I shouldn’t bash other peoples’ religions either—and I don’t. I don’t bash Catholicism, or Orthodoxy, or Judaism, or Islam, or Buddhism, or Zoroastrianism, or any of the major historic religions. But JWism is something different. It is not like any of the traditional major religions. It is a sinister organization led at the top by a bunch of secretive, opportunistic, manipulative people who like to gain control over the souls of men. It is hard to describe it even as a religion. It is an exercise in mind control. It is an evil organization.

 

[PRmerger]

As ministers we work to support our ministry. Our ministry is our vocation and as such we do not dilute our dedication to God and this ministry by attempting to advance in secular pursuits.

Catholicism teaches that we must be in the world, but not of the world. That is, we can pursue any vocation that God calls us–doctor, lawyer, mechanic, consecrated celibate, mother, father, priest–and serve the Lord.

This we do because we love God and Christ and our neighbor, not because we are told we must. Anyone who does not choose this life for themselves of their own free will is not encouraged to be one of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

-Dan

Is it true that there are no Jehovah’s Witness ministries that serve food to the poor, clothe the naked, minister to the sick? I think I read that somewhere…

 

[dj_dave]

dj dave;5612776:

WE also discourage having firearms in the home (excluding Hunters for food not sport), pot, dating different people without the intent to mary, sex without marriage; Bad associations; R rated Movies; pornography; Over drinking; lying; BUT IT IS STILL UP TO THE INDIVIDUAL TO DECIDE…ect.-- Yes, most of what we discourage does go against popular opinon

(Matt. 7:14) DID you even read the scriptural reasons we cited?/QUOTE]

Well, yes, dave, I did read the Scriptural reasons you cited. But, I find that you could also apply them to discourage any modern concept. Such as the automobile. Every single verse you cited could be used to discourage use of the automobile.

THATS IT! I’ll become a Amish!

OKAY, “modern concept” …just to let you know we try to learn about a lot.

here are the subjects discussed in 2008 and 2007 Awakes

Subject Index for 2008 Awake!
ANIMALS AND PLANTS
Baby Gorilla Cried, 8/08
Beetle’s Pressure-Spray System, 12/08
Compound Eye (insects), 3/08
Corn, 8/08
Curious Coati, 7/08
European Bison, 10/08
Gecko Adhesive, 4/08
Haven for Wildlife (Gabon), 1/08
Liquid Gold (olive oil), 4/08
Milk Bypass (calf), 10/08
Monkeys (Gibraltar), 3/08
Navigational System of Butterfly, 11/08
Paua (shellfish), 12/08
Really a Tree? (baobab [boab]), 5/08
Seagull’s Leg, 9/08
Siberian Tiger, 6/08
Snug in the Snow, 2/08
Spider Silk, 1/08
Termite-Mound Ventilation, 6/08
Trees That Live in Water (mangroves), 6/08
Union in Soil (symbiosis), 8/08
HEALTH AND MEDICINE
Albinism, 7/08
Asperger’s Syndrome, 9/08
HIV-Screened Blood, 6/08
Longevity in Okinawa, 11/08
Looking Inside—Without Surgery, 11/08
Silent Voice (Rett syndrome), 10/08
When Sun Does Not Rise (seasonal affective disorder), 12/08
HUMAN RELATIONS
Know Your Children? 6/08
Make Marriage a Success, 7/08
Violence Against Women, 1/08
Your Child and Internet, 10/08
120 Years to Cross Continent (Australia), 2/08
Ancient Customs in Today’s Mexico, 3/08
Asian Nomads (Mongols), 5/08
Big Island (Hawaii), 3/08
Boating in Kerala (India), 4/08
Bridge Kept Coming Back (Bulgaria), 1/08
Britain’s Canals, 7/08
Dead Sea (Israel), 1/08
Gabon—Haven for Wildlife, 1/08
Longevity in Okinawa, 11/08
Masterpieces “Painted” With Stones (Italy), 12/08
Monkeys on the Rock (Gibraltar), 3/08
Puerto Rico, 10/08
Puppets Perform Operas (Austria), 1/08
River Flows Backward (Cambodia), 10/08
Splendid Gulf (Gulf of California), 5/08
Taste of Thailand, 7/08
Thermal Baths (Hungary), 3/08
‘Threading the Needle’ (Bass Strait, Australia), 11/08
Train With No Wheels (China), 11/08
Treasures of Niihau (Hawaii), 7/08
Village to Metropolis (Tokyo, Japan), 1/08
When Churches Came to Tahiti, 8/08
‘When Night Fell During Day’ (Africa), 3/08
When Sun Does Not Rise (Arctic lands), 12/08
MISCELLANEOUS
Air Traffic Control, 4/08
Deceptive Power of Advertisements, 12/08
More Than Just Toys (dolls), 6/08
Music—God’s Gift to the Heart, 5/08
Opera Singing, 4/08
Success—How Achieved? 11/08

SCIENCE
Ancient Manuscripts—How Dated? 2/08
Beetle’s Pressure-Spray System, 12/08
Compound Eye (insects), 3/08
Gecko Adhesive, 4/08
Global Warming, 8/08
Navigational System of Butterfly, 11/08
Robots, 9/08
Seagull’s Leg, 9/08
Spider Silk, 1/08
Taste, 7/08
Train With No Wheels, 11/08
Union in Soil (symbiosis), 8/08
‘When Night Fell During Day’ (solar eclipse), 3/08
WORLD AFFAIRS AND CONDITIONS
Earth Sustain Future Generations? 7/08
Ever Free of Crime? 2/08
Fear the Future? 5/08
Global Warming, 8/08
Philanthropy the Answer? 5/08
Why Nets Are Empty (overfishing), 11/08
YOUNG PEOPLE ASK
Curfews, 10/08
How Cope if Not Well? 2/08
How Improve My Prayers? 11/08
How Make Worship Enjoyable? 7/08
Play Electronic Games? 1/08
Resisting Temptation, 8/08
Sibling Committed Suicide, 6/08
Stress at School, 9/08
Swearing, 3/08
Tell On My Friend? 12/08
Why Don’t Parents Trust Me? 4/08
Why Not Just End It All? 5/08

Here are 2007 awake

*** g 12/07 p. 30 Subject Index for 2007 Awake! ***
Subject Index for 2007 Awake!
ANIMALS AND PLANTS
Chukar (bird), 2/07
Delicacies From Forest (berries), 9/07
Emperor for Lunch (caterpillar), 5/07
Instinct Guides Birds, 7/07
Ladybird (ladybug), 1/07
Perfumer’s Fruit (bergamot), 6/07
Pollen, 4/07
Roses From Africa, 10/07
Shark, 10/07
Shark Bay, 7/07
Water Bear (tardigrade), 3/07
Willows, 2/07
ECONOMICS AND EMPLOYMENT
Love of Money, 6/07
HEALTH AND MEDICINE
“Contribution to Medical Science” (nonblood treatment), 9/07
Optimism, 9/07
Sickness No More! 1/07
Toothache, 9/07
Why Do I Faint? 4/07
Why Visit Dentist? 5/07
HUMAN RELATIONS
Abstinence Pledges, 2/07
Keep Children Safe (sexual abuse), 10/07
Meeting Needs of Youth, 3/07
“Show Yourselves Thankful,” 10/07
Steps to Better Parenting, 8/07
LANDS AND PEOPLES
Baikal—World’s Largest Lake (Russia), 12/07
Belize Barrier Reef, 1/07
“Black Swan” of Venice (Italy), 5/07
Brazil’s Indians, 10/07
Christmas Island, 8/07
East Timor, 5/07
Egypt to Cities of World (obelisks), 4/07
Emperor for Lunch (Zambia), 5/07
Kamchatka—Russia’s Wonderland, 3/07
King of Great Accomplishments (Cameroon), 12/07
King’s Search for Wisdom (Spain), 1/07
Laundrymen of Abidjan (Côte d’Ivoire), 6/07
Majestic Monolith (Canada), 4/07
“Nature’s Wisdom” (Expo 2005, Japan), 3/07
Roses From Africa, 10/07
Shark Bay (Australia), 7/07
Spanish Armada, 8/07
Svalbard—Land of Cold Coasts (Norway), 2/07
Terror in Mumbai (India), 6/07
Toledo (Spain), 6/07
Vanuatu, 9/07
Voice of “Eternal City” (Trevi Fountain, Rome), 8/07
MISCELLANEOUS
Cloth Dyeing, 4/07
Guidance That Surpasses Instinct, 7/07
Learn Another Language, 3/07
Pencil, 7/07
Slumbering Giant (volcanoes), 2/07
RELIGION
Baptisteries, 9/07
Death Really the End? 12/07
Enduring Expression of God’s Love (Bible), 11/07
God Responsible for Natural Disasters? 9/07
God’s Name Made Known, 12/07
How Bible Came to Us, 11/07
Losing Its Influence? 2/07
Myth or Fact? (Bible teachings), 11/07
Noah’s Ark and Naval Architecture, 1/07
Really Live That Long? (pre-Flood world), 7/07
Trust the Bible? 11/07
Unique Book (Bible), 11/07
What Is Bible About? 11/07
SCIENCE
Archaeology Support the Bible? 11/07
Color-Vision Deficiency, 7/07
Feathers, 7/07
WORLD AFFAIRS AND CONDITIONS
“Engines of Destruction” Foreseen (military aircraft), 10/07
Moral Breakdown, 4/07
Trials of Traffic, 2/07
Unequal Opportunities, 5/07
YOUNG PEOPLE ASK
Caught Between Cultures, 9/07
Dating Secretly, 6/07
Homosexuality—How Avoid It? 2/07
How Avoid Pornography? 12/07
How Stop Gossip? 8/07
Parents Argue, 10/07
This Person Right for Me? 5/07
What if Invited to “Hook Up”? 3/07
When Start Dating? 1/07
Why Compared With Others? 4/07
Why Left Out? 7/07
Why Live by Bible Standards? 11/07

 

[PRmerger]

THATS IT! I’ll become a Amish!

But why do JWs have no objection to the automobile, given all the Scriptural verses you cited?

 

[PRmerger]

In short–Even though Witness youths are interested in a good education, they do not pursue schooling with the intention of obtaining prestige or prominence. Their main goal in life is to serve effectively as ministers of God, and they appreciate schooling as an aid to that end. So they generally choose courses that are useful for supporting themselves in the modern world. Thus, many may take vocational courses or attend a vocational school.

While I have nothing against vocational courses I do take offense to your categorizing higher education as just a means of obtaining prestige or prominence.

As Peter Kreeft (philosophy professor at Boston College) writes: “The reason for going to college in the first place is not to make money or things, or even to live better, but to BE better, to be more, to grow your mind as you grow your body.”

 

[PRmerger]

It THE history of Christendom, with its wars, inquisitions, crusades, and religious hypocrisy, has not helped the cause of Christianity.

What about the great contribution that Christendom has had on education–that is, the establishment of the university? Wasn’t it the CC that established hospitals, orphanages, ministries that fed the poor, clothed the naked?

 

[Dan_Parker]

PRmerger:
Catholicism teaches that we must be in the world, but not of the world. That is, we can pursue any vocation that God calls us–doctor, lawyer, mechanic, consecrated celibate, mother, father, priest–and serve the Lord.

Dan:
Jesus has commissioned all Christians in the following endeavour:

NAB Matthew 28:18 (1 )Then Jesus approached and said to them, “All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, **baptizing them **in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age.”

Do you as a Catholic teach that Jesus was only commanding Priests tp make disciples?

Everything else is secondary to a Christian. There are Jehovah’s Witnesses who are doctors, lawyers and mechanics. However these are what they do to support the commission Jesus gave them to make disciples. That is their priority.

PRmerger:
Is it true that there are no Jehovah’s Witness ministries that serve food to the poor, clothe the naked, minister to the sick? I think I read that somewhere…

Dan:
Jehovah’s Witnesses as an organization make the preaching work their highest priority. However when natural disaster strikes we are many times on the scene faster than other agencies and help JW and non JW alike.

Dan

 

[PRmerger]

Dan:
Jesus has commissioned all Christians in the following endeavour:
NAB Matthew 28:18 (1 )Then Jesus approached and said to them, "All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age

Amen!

Do you as a Catholic teach that Jesus was only commanding Priests tp make disciples?

No. All Catholics are called to preach the Gospel.

Everything else is secondary to a Christian. There are Jehovah’s Witnesses who are doctors, lawyers and mechanics. However these are what they do to support the commission Jesus gave them to make disciples. That is their priority.

As it is with Catholic doctors, lawyers and mechanics.

Dan:
Jehovah’s Witnesses as an organization make the preaching work their highest priority. However when natural disaster strikes we are many times on the scene faster than other agencies and help JW and non JW alike.

Dan

How do you determine that preaching is the highest priority over say, clothing the naked or worshipping God or praying for one another? Why do you wait until a natural disaster strikes to make this type of ministry a priority?

 

[Dan_Parker]

PRmerger:

How do you determine that preaching is the highest priority over say, clothing the naked or worshiping God or praying for one another? Why do you wait until a natural disaster strikes to make this type of ministry a priority?
**
Dan:**
It all goes back to how seriously one takes the Great Commission at Mt 28:19-20.

NAB Matthew 28:18 Then Jesus approached and said to them, “All power in heaven and on earth has been given to me. 19 Go, therefore, and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the holy Spirit, 20 teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you. And behold, I am with you always, until the end of the age.”

The priority was set by Jesus. As for praying for one another and worshiping God, those are part and parcel of the Great Commission as those things are part of making disciples.

Jesus did not say one could substitute a ministry of clothing the naked for making disciples. The commission was a command of Jesus himself and must be given priority because he made it a priority.

Dan

 

[dj_dave]

As Peter Kreeft (philosophy professor at Boston College) writes: “The reason for going to college in the first place is not to make money or things, or even to live better, but to BE better, to be more, to grow your mind as you grow your body.”

*“The reason for going to college in the first place is not to make money or things, or even to live better, but to BE better, to be more, to grow your mind as you grow your body.” *

All of these 'Posts" comments are weclomed …However, I feel I have not said or done anything to earn the ‘angry’ comments from Zerinus. (Do you have any idea how much fun I could have with your name?) Anyway regarding the above quote

“…but to BE better, to be more, to grow your mind as you grow your body.”

Hear is what Paul would say…(Colossians 1:9-11) 9**That is also why we, from the day we heard [of it], have not ceased praying for YOU and asking that YOU may be filled with the accurate knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual comprehension, 10 in order to walk worthily of Jehovah to the end of fully pleasing [him] as YOU go on bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the accurate knowledge of God, 11 being made powerful with all power to the extent of his glorious might so as to endure fully and be long-suffering with joy,*

(Philippians 1:8-11) 8**For God is my witness of how I am yearning for all of YOU in such tender affection as Christ Jesus has. 9 And this is what I continue praying, that YOUR love may abound yet more and more with accurate knowledge and full discernment; 10 that YOU may make sure of the more important things, so that YOU may be flawless and not be stumbling others up to the day of Christ, 11 and may be filled with righteous fruit, which is through Jesus Christ, to God’s glory and praise.*

(Philippians 2:1-4) …doing nothing out of contentiousness or out of egotism, but with lowliness of mind considering that the others are superior to YOU, 4 keeping an eye, not in personal interest upon just YOUR own matters, but also in personal interest upon those of the others.

(Colossians 3:5-10) 5**Deaden, therefore, YOUR body members that are upon the earth as respects fornication, uncleanness, sexual appetite, hurtful desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. 6 On account of those things the wrath of God is coming. …8 But now really put them all away from YOU, wrath, anger, (Zerinus) badness, abusive speech, and obscene talk out of YOUR mouth. 9 Do not be lying to one another. Strip off the old personality with its practices, 10 and clothe yourselves with the new [personality], which through accurate knowledge is being made new according to the image of the One who created it,*

(1 Corinthians 10:24) .Let each one keep seeking, not his own [advantage], but that of the other person. ) By the way, check that scripture in the KJV

Honestly everybody, we are not going to drag people “kicking and screaming” into our way of life or God’s Kingdom. We have made up our minds that this is the true relighion that Jesus spoke of at John 4:23, 24. Also Micah 2 :1-4 Like this scripture says Jehovah’s Witnesses are from all religions and “from MANY nations”. Have any of you ever seen any of our DVDs that show how we have accomplished placing 12 Billion Bibles and Brochures and Bible Study aids in over 400 languages? **Have **you seen the organizing that The Armed forces came to see when we fed over 253,922. at the Divine Will International Assembly in New York in 1958? **How **about the technology with our Computer system China came to see? **Have **you ventured to look at some of the art work in our Publications? **Do **you know that over 400 hospitals are now operating completly without blood?

I’m sorry that you do not agree with many of our viewpoints. But THATS OKAY! This whole post started with me being asked what do Jehovah’s Witnesses believe?
I didn’t start fights asking what rabbits and eggs have to do with Christ’s death…I didn’t try to explain Ezekiel 37:16, 17 in what we think is wrong with LDS interpretation

BTW, as for the comment "But JWism is something different. It is not like any of the traditional major religions"—thank you

John 15:19-21 “*If YOU were part of the world, the world would be fond of what is its own. *Now because YOU are no part of the world, but I have chosen YOU out of the world, on this account the world hates YOU. 20 Bear in mind the word I said to YOU, A slave is not greater than his master. If they have persecuted me, they will persecute YOU also; if they have observed my word, they will observe YOURS also. 21 But they will do all these things against YOU on account of my name, because they do not know him that sent me.”
*(John 17:14) I have given your word to them, but the world has hated them, because they are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world.

(James 4:4) Adulteresses, do YOU not know that the friendship with the world is enmity with God? Whoever, therefore, wants to be a friend of the world is constituting himself an enemy of God.*

(Matthew 7:14) whereas narrow is the gate and cramped the road leading off into life, and few are the ones finding it.

 

[PRmerger]

It all goes back to how seriously one takes the Great Commission at Mt 28:19-20.

Catholics take it quite seriously.

The priority was set by Jesus.

No, Dan. Where do you see that it is given any more priority than “Unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you shall not have life within you” or “You shall love your neighbor as yourself” or “Feed my sheep” or “Love your enemies” or “Go and sin no more”.

It’s quite peculiar to pick out one commandment and claim Jesus is setting a priority, when the text indicates no such thing.

The commission was a command of Jesus himself and must be given priority because he made it a priority.

Dan

Show us where does He make it a** priority**? Remember, He gave many commands to His disciples and I want to know* how *JWs know what’s the priority.

 

[PRmerger]

Hear is what Paul would say…(Colossians 1:9-11) 9**That is also why we, from the day we heard [of it], have not ceased praying for YOU and asking that YOU may be filled with the accurate knowledge of his will in all wisdom and spiritual comprehension, 10 in order to walk worthily of Jehovah to the end of fully pleasing *[him] as YOU go on bearing fruit in every good work and increasing in the accurate knowledge of God, 11 being made powerful with all power to the extent of his glorious might so as to endure fully and be long-suffering with joy,

(Philippians 1:8-11) 8**For God is my witness of how I am yearning for all of YOU in such tender affection as Christ Jesus has. 9 And this is what I continue praying, that YOUR love may abound yet more and more with accurate knowledge and full discernment; 10 that YOU may make sure of the more important things*, so that YOU may be flawless and not be stumbling others up to the day of Christ, 11 and may be filled with righteous fruit, which is through Jesus Christ, to God’s glory and praise.

(Philippians 2:1-4) …doing nothing out of contentiousness or out of egotism, but with lowliness of mind considering that the others are superior to YOU, 4 keeping an eye, not in personal interest upon just YOUR own matters, but also in personal interest upon those of the others.

(Colossians 3:5-10) 5**Deaden, therefore, YOUR body members that are upon the earth as respects fornication, uncleanness, sexual appetite, hurtful desire, and covetousness, which is idolatry. 6 On account of those things the wrath of God is coming. …8 But now really put them all away from YOU, wrath, anger, badness, abusive speech, and obscene talk out of YOUR mouth. 9 Do not be lying to one another. Strip off the old personality with its practices, 10 and clothe yourselves with the new [personality], which through accurate knowledge is being made new according to the image of the One who created it,*

(1 Corinthians 10:24) .Let each one keep seeking, not his own [advantage], but that of the other person. )

To which Catholics respond, “Amen!”.

What do all those verses have to do with higher education?

And I have some verses for you:

“Be perfect as your heavenly Father is perfect” Matt 5:48

“Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul **and with all your mind **and with all your strength.’” Mark 12:30

Do you know that over 400 hospitals are now operating completly without blood?

Yikes!

John 15:19-21 “*If YOU were part of the world, the world would be fond of what is its own. *Now because YOU are no part of the world, but I have chosen YOU out of the world, on this account the world hates YOU. 20 Bear in mind the word I said to YOU, A slave is not greater than his master. If they have persecuted me, they will persecute YOU also; if they have observed my word, they will observe YOURS also. 21 But they will do all these things against YOU on account of my name, because they do not know him that sent me.”
(John 17:14) I have given your word to them, but the world has hated them, because they are no part of the world, just as I am no part of the world.

Again, dave, why do the JWs have no objection to automobiles but use those verses to discourage higher education?

Doesn’t that seem like an arbitrary choice of what’s “of the world” and what’s not? Education is worldly but automobiles, computers are not? Who decides that anyway? Is there an infallible interpreter of God’s Word at the highest levels of the JW system?

 

[dj_dave]

Catholics take it quite seriously.

No, Dan. *Where do you see that it is given any more priority than “Unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you shall not have life within you” or “You shall love your neighbor as yourself” or “Feed my sheep” or “Love your enemies” or “Go and sin no more”.

Show us where does He make it a** priority***?

Hi It’s me.DJ DAVE…let’s see…

The word rendered “kingdom” in the Christian Greek Scriptures is ba·si·lei′a, meaning “a kingdom, realm, the region or country governed by a king; kingly power, authority, dominion, reign; royal dignity, the title and honour of king.” (The Analytical Greek Lexicon, 1908, p. 67) The phrase “the kingdom of God” is used frequently by Mark and Luke, and in Matthew’s account the parallel phrase “the kingdom of the heavens” appears some 30 times.—Compare Mr 10:23 and Lu 18:24 with Mt 19:23,24;

Rev. 5:9,*10: “*You [Jesus Christ] were slaughtered and with your blood you bought *–not brought–persons for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over (see 9:11 same Gr. word) the earth.” (At Revelation 14:1-3 these “bought from the earth” to be rulers with the Lamb on heavenly Mount Zion are said to number 144,000.)

Dan. 7:13,*14: “With the clouds of the heavens someone like a son of man [Jesus Christ; see Mark 14:61, 62] happened to be coming; and to the Ancient of Days [Jehovah God] he gained access, and they brought him up close even before that One. And to him [to Jesus Christ] there were given rulership and dignity and kingdom, that the peoples, national groups and languages should all serve even him.”

THE TIME WE ARE NOW LIVING–Dan. 2:44: “In the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite.”

Seems pretty top priority to me…also:

Matt. 16:16*“The Law and the Prophets were until John. From then on the kingdom of God is being declared as good news, and every sort of person is pressing forward toward it.

(Mark 1:32-38) After evening had fallen, when the sun had set, the people began bringing him all those who were ill and those demon-possessed; …36However, Simon and those with him hunted him down 37and found him, and they said to him: “All are looking for you.” 38But he said to them: “Let us go somewhere else, into the village towns nearby, that I may preach* there also, for it is for this purpose I have gone out.

(Luke 4:43) But he said to them: “Also to other cities I must declare the good news of the kingdom of God, because for this I was sent forth.”

*“Pay constant attention to yourself and to your teaching. Stay by these things, for by doing this you will save both yourself and those who listen to you.” (1Tim. 4:16) The kind of teaching that Paul had in mind is not the mere imparting of knowledge. Effective Christian ministers reach the hearts of people and motivate them to make changes in their lives. That is an art.

“Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations Disciples for what?–The Kingdom] ... And, look! I am with you all the days until the conclusion of the system of things.” All the evidence shows not only that we are living in the conclusion of this system of things, but also that the present disciple-making work is under heavenly supervision.—Matt. 28:19, 20…And almost done.

Oh, and there is this…

Matthew 24:14 And this good news of “Unless you eat my flesh and drink my blood you shall not have life within you” will be preached in all the inhabited earth and THEN the end will come"

no wait–And this good news of *“go and sin no more” *will be preached in all the inhabited earth and THEN the end will come"

No I know…And this good news of " You shall love your neighbor as yourself" will be preached in all the inhabited earth and THEN the end will come"

Or is it “And this good news of " Feed my sheep” will be preached in all the inhabited earth and THEN the end will come"

No, Jesus said “. *14 And this good news **of the kingdom ***will be preached in all the inhabited earth for a witness to all the nations; and THEN the end will come.” Do a word search in the Greek Scriptures on “kindom” compared to the others above–it may surprise you. Maybe not.

 

[wes144]

Um, it’s much more effective to critique Mormonism if you get your information from actual Mormon sources, not anti-Mormon websites. There is much misinformation in your post.

I say this as an ex-Mormon.

Genesis 3:4, 5 gives the first Mormon sermon, and reveals the source of all LDS doctrines.

4 Then the serpent said to the woman, "You will not surely die.
5 “For God knows that in the day you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

(You don’t really die you become gods!) Now for the end result of these doctrines and the author of lies as Jesus referred to him.
Ezekiel 2:18 By the multitude of your iniquities, in the unrighteousness of your trade you profaned your sanctuaries; so I brought forth fire from the midst of you; it consumed you, and I turned you to ashes upon the earth in the sight of all who saw you.
19 All who know you among the peoples are appalled at you; you have come to a dreadful end and shall be no more for ever."