LDS: Is this video accurate for your theology?

[truthsave]

The emphasis on Mormonism is man becoming god as proposed by Lucifer to Eve in the garden. St. Michael exclaimed throughout the heavens, ‘Who is like unto God!’

No man is like unto God. As it says in Revelations, God simply puffs on the AntiChrist trying to ascend into heaven as god, only to be sent down into the pool of fire.

Reading Sacred Scripture, the warning and consequences are all there when people seek pleasures outside of God’s will and providence.

The first sin (or capital sin for Roman Catholic) has the the mother of all sin, the mother of the decadence of man, the reason of the cutting from the presence of God. This is is a sin of pride. The pride that being with God was not enough but wanting to become like Him.

For Christinas is not that good, for mormon is good so the “glorious plane of salvation” of Joseph Smith could be justified.
I think either you have to be inconscious or courageus to feel that disobeing to God in favour of Satan to make Joseph Smith plane contability work has been a good thing.
Satan have done all this for us. For this reason God had very nice word for the devil in doing it? (of course bad translation or seing out of contest for mormons).

God chased Satan because he did what he was suppose to do?
(no maybe it is even more contorded: the devil while he was doing what he was not supposed to do was doing what he was supposed to do so for the plane of salvation could develop? It can be I made mine the mormon reason contortionism) The plane of God was a little contorded.

God send His Word in the world under the form of the His Son, not to accomplish the Joseph Smith’s plane, but to save His people. Because they were missguided even by His priests. So His Word came to be heard by who could recognize it.
If mormon prefer thinking they recognize the Word of the Lord His Son Jesus, partly in the NT but they prefer thinking many things has been kept secret so that the apostasy could happen (even though Jesus said He’s was going to rest with us till the end of time) so what?

But if a mormon want to be called Christian, and under this denomination trying to getting in his view people that very partially know what is Christianity about, and that for their own pride (remember the first sin?) they think they know what is true and that this truth change their lives in a good human way (Get behind me, Satan! You are a stumbling block to me; you do not have in mind the concerns of God, but merely human concerns.” Matthew 16:23) I will do my best whenever it is possible to denonce they are in grave mistake.
Live with your mistake but I will try to reveal it to who you are trying to convince of the contrary. I hope other Christians will fought for the truth to be alive.

 

[truthsave]

Maybe many of you won’t know about it.
That Joseph Smith temple rituals where taken directly from massonery is not a big secret and easily documented (of course mormons can say Smith restoured this rituals or tha tif he took this rituals it means they were sacred)

But he must have restoured also the plane of salvation from Emanuel Swedenborg writings.
If you read from this author Arcana Coelesta, or Heavenly Secrets, written long time before Smith revelation, you can find a lot of things in common.
(for mormons if they read them must say Smith must have restoure this since this writing must have been inspired. I love this idea of restoration, give you the freedom of doing anything you like, really everything! iIt is great!)

The author unfortunately for him, may his soul find peace and the Lord have merci on him, completely lost his mind, yes clinically.

 

[Cowboy_Pete]

No one taught racism as a divine order of God in a pre-existing life, this life, and the life to come; except Mormon “prophets”.

Nope – that was the opinion of one LDS apostle, who later recanted publicly.

No one ever taught that white people would become gods, in the life to come, and non-whites would be their servants; except Mormon “prophets”.

That abhorrent heresy was taught by a few prophets, I’m sad to say; that is an ugly thing in our history. (If you’ve had no such bad moments in your history, then congradulations.) Nevertheless, at no time did all of our apostles accept that belief, therefore it was a lie for Ed Decker and his disciples to assert that this was ever LDS doctrine, let alone that it’s "what Mormons believe today.

This is a bit of a sensitive issue to me personally, since my father has uncovered in our genealogy that one of own ancestors was a freed slave who moved west with the Saints. I’ve two uncles, a sister, a brother, and my own father whose hair will still dread-lock if they let it grow long enough. Circumstances suggest that he must have been able to pass for white (as many folks did when they moved west), and also that white members of his community, including the family of his former owner, also converted and apparently must have kept the secret of his ancestry.

The point is this – the church was not racist at its inception. Brigham Young introduced some racist policies and for a while racist views were predominant in the church, but they were never universally accepted by church leaders, nor by the membership. Was the racist theme that Brigham Young introduced a blight on our history? Yes. Does that prove that Joseph Smith was not a prophet? No.

 

[Cowboy_Pete]

Maybe many of you won’t know about it.
That Joseph Smith temple rituals where taken directly from massonery is not a big secret and easily documented

It’s no secret that JS used a number of elements from the Freemason ritual. Or that Christmas trees and Easter eggs originate from pagan rites. So what? Leave that kind of argument to the Jehovah’s Witness fun-killers.

One of my favorite songs is Lorena Mckennitt’s “The Mummers Dance” whose lyrics show the genius of Medeival Catholicism in weaving all that was “beautiful praiseworthy and of good report” (to borrow Paul’s term) in various Pagan religions, to honor our Lord Jesus Christ. Note that some sillies in the comments, are arguing whether McKennitt was Pagan or Christian. Irrelevant McKennitt is a musical anthropologist who strives to be true to whoever she is describing. The medeivals, whose music and spirit she celebrates in the Mummers’ Dance, where absolutely Christian, but they used innocent themes elements and elements of Paganism to honor Christ. ("the work of our Lord’s hand.)

 

[Cowboy_Pete]

God is Spirit. Without His will for our existence, we would not be here. … At one point, Jesus even called the Apostles as friends. God is seeking communion with us.

Amen.

Jesus is God, of the same substance, one God, with the same essential purpose of having pleasurable and providential relationship with mankind.

What precisely do you mean by “of the same substance” ?

If God was once man, then became God it is saying then that man is creator.

No. Jesus is God, Jesus was once man, and that does not mean that man is creator.

Who created this universe…man? Science can’t prove that.

Where did that come from? Who believes that man created the universe, let alone that science could prove that man, or God, created the universe? That question is beyond the scope of science as we know it.

The emphasis on Mormonism is man becoming god as proposed by Lucifer to Eve in the garden.

I think should take a closer look at that scripture.

AntiChrist trying to ascend into heaven as god, only to be sent down into the pool of fire.

I’m alarmed to see so much Evangelical scripture-mangling creeping into Catholicism. AntiChrists are a dime a dozen; see St John’s Epistles. There is no singular “the antichrist” anywhere in the book of Revelations. There’s the beast, the dragon, the harlot … no singular “the antichrist.”

Reading Sacred Scripture, the warning and consequences are all there when people seek pleasures outside of God’s will and providence

 

[pismopal]

To me, what Jesus said, and did for us, is more important than his DNA or the precise mechanics of how he was made flesh.

Talking about LDS differences as if we worshipped a “different Jesus” seems to me like those who obsess over whether Jesus was white or black or had a big nose.

Trifles.

He is God made flesh. He died for us that we might live again; His sacrifice gave us the Atonement and the Resurrection.

In that light, what else matters?

truthsave, if you and I had live two thousand years ago, the Romans would have thrown both of us to the lions. There would be no talk of differences because I thought that the Father had a body. The name “Christian” was coined at Antioch as a death sentence for persons like you and I. I believe that the Holy Spirit is grieved when persons like you and I mock each others’ love for the Savior.

And there is only One.

If one will read…OBJECTIVELY…all the writtings and teaching of Joseph Smith and about his early life…and still believe that he was a prophet…then LDS might be palatable. If you come to the conclusion that he was a liar and a charletan…based on objective study…then you must not follow the LDS group.
As you said…“what else matters?” Who the Romans would have thrown to the lions is absolutely irrelevant since they killed many people for no reason…but if you want to follow Christ and the teachings of those who actually knew him…well it does matter.

 

[zaffiroborant]

I’m alarmed to see so much Evangelical scripture-mangling creeping into Catholicism. AntiChrists are a dime a dozen; see St John’s Epistles. There is no singular “the antichrist” anywhere in the book of Revelations. There’s the beast, the dragon, the harlot … no singular “the antichrist.”

Reading Sacred Scripture, the warning and consequences are all there when people seek pleasures outside of God’s will and providence

Just as there is no plural in the title of the book referred to here.

 

[Cowboy_Pete]

If one will read…OBJECTIVELY…all the writtings and teaching of Joseph Smith and about his early life…and still believe that he was a prophet…then LDS might be palatable. If you come to the conclusion that he was a liar and a charletan…based on objective study…then you must not follow the LDS group.
As you said…“what else matters?” Who the Romans would have thrown to the lions is absolutely irrelevant since they killed many people for no reason…but if you want to follow Christ and the teachings of those who actually knew him…well it does matter.

Who the Romans would have thrown to the language is totally irrelevant to my question “what else matters,”

Pete:

He is God made flesh. He died for us that we might live again; His sacrifice gave us the Atonement and the Resurrection.

In that light, what else matters?

I’m more than a little bothered that you totally ignored the issues of God made Flesh, the Atonement and the Resurrection. If you not take those issues as serious as I do, then why are we having this conversation?

 

[Cowboy_Pete]

Just as there is no plural in the title of the book referred to here.

That’s a cute quibble, Zaff, but I take it by your smily that you realize that it’s not a rebuttall; “Book of Revelations” is a typo while “The AntiChrist” is a serious doctrinal error.

 

[truthsave]

It’s no secret that JS used a number of elements from the Freemason ritual. Or that Christmas trees and Easter eggs originate from pagan rites. So what? Leave that kind of argument to the Jehovah’s Witness fun-killers.

Sorry I cannot understand your analogy. **Christmas trees and Easter eggs are part of Christian sacred rituals? **

Freemanson ritual are the base of mormon temple rituals that are what you consider most sacred in your organization. For this reason not every mormon can go to e temple but need a bishop reccomandation.

You keep on putting Christianity on the same level then mormonism. Sorry, higher level since LSD is the only true church that helds all the keys of this dispensation, and you know that is true.

You are free of doing whatever you feel and say whatever you want.
Joseph Smith did, the other your “prophets” did; why you shouldn’t?

 

[truthsave]

To Cowboy Pete,

I cannot believe you know everything about mormonism and be a mormon. For me is so hard to believe.

I can understand my wife’s mother, she would be lost (her material and psycological life) without belonging to LDS.
But a man, in your situation, what does it risks to really try to know the truth behond what you feel?

 

[pismopal]

Who the Romans would have thrown to the language is totally irrelevant to my question “what else matters,”

I’m more than a little bothered that you totally ignored the issues of God made Flesh, the Atonement and the Resurrection. If you not take those issues as serious as I do, then why are we having this conversation?

How can I argue the above issues with you? There is nothing to argue about…either Joseph Smith was a prophet or he was not…either he plagarized the KJ Bible to forge the BOM or he didn’t. I think he was not a prophet and that he falsely led his people away from Christianity. This is the real issue here …not LDS theology compared to Catholic theology. And my assertion that JS and LDS is false, is no more impolite or inflamatory than the LDS assertion that the RCC is apostate. I repeat…the whole LDS theology question is moot…the real question is about Joseph Smith’s authenticity, if he was a lie…so is LDS…period.

 

[eo_chibears]

Wow, very interesting to watch. Not quite sure what to think.

 

[Cowboy_Pete]

How can I argue the above issues with you?

Well, to argue with me, you’d first need to understand what I was saying.

There is nothing to argue about…either Joseph Smith was a prophet or he was not…either he plagarized the KJ Bible to forge the BOM or he didn’t

Fair enough. But neither of those questions relates to the issue of whether the LDS church is Christian. I do believe that JS was a prophet, but if I’m wrong, that would not change the fact that I’m Christian due to the core beliefs I listed above.

If someone asked you what Christianity meant, you would list those things that I laid out as core Christian doctrines, unless you were conciously trying to exclude mormons.

 

[truthsave]

I do believe that JS was a prophet, but if I’m wrong, that would not change the fact that I’m Christian due to the core beliefs I listed above.

This is what you think but it would change not a lot but everything. You can say this because you consider yourself to be a Christian now, what actually myself, and I guess others don’t think so.
You don’t want or can’t or whatever either understand or accept that being Christian means believing in Jesus Christ as in NT, nothing more nothing less.
Do you really don’t see any difference between Jesus in Joseph Smith speaking and Jesus in the NT? Do you really don’t see any differeneces between the Lord as Christianity sees Him and as mormonisms see Him?
They are really two different people with the same name, even They coming goal is different, Their nature is different, Their glory is different, Their way of inbody Their glory is different (I don’t want to say what few mormons told me what they think about the transfiguration of Jesus because I am ashamed of it).
Apparently for you the basic thing to be a Christian is in believing in Jesus.
I tell you again: no. even Satan believe in Jesus. He knows better then us who He is.
We must have faith to know who He is. Satan no. He knows personally who Jesus is.
Being Christian is trying as hard as you can to follow Christ teaching and having faith in Him. Of course if you have faith in Him you believe in what He said and you try to follow Him and His teaching.
In his teaching (NT) are not any of the LSD teaching of marriage, exaltation, becoming gods, eternal mariage, different planets, celestial bodies and so on.
If you believe in these and is true that Jesus spoke through Joseph Smith mouth you are a christian indeed and we not, since we were found unready to hear His updated message.
If Joseph Smith is not a prophet then what he said he said from his mind, you will be a Smithonians, and not a Christians since you are going to be found more willing to accept a faulse prophet inventions then the real testament and gospel of Jesus.

If not there would not be that danger about faulse prophets.
Faulse prophets are not the ones that teaches you about “bad” things. Everybody would detect them as being faulse. No, faulse prophets are the one that changes the real message of Christ and His nature, even if this changes as consequences produce a better society and family and work and so on.

You people aren’t faithful to God! Don’t you know that if you love the world, you are God’s enemies? And if you decide to be a friend of the world, you make yourself an enemy of God. James 4:4
friend of the world means of wordly matters not only the classic bad things. friend of the flesh and of things that are condemned to an end.

You take your risk ok, you are preatty brave, we take ours. But no way a LDS is a Christian from a Christian eyes and heart and mind he is just an LDS prophaning the Holy names in which he, as a christian, put all his faith in.

 

[pismopal]

Well, to argue with me, you’d first need to understand what I was saying.

Fair enough. But neither of those questions relates to the issue of whether the LDS church is Christian. I do believe that JS was a prophet, but if I’m wrong, that would not change the fact that I’m Christian due to the core beliefs I listed above.

If someone asked you what Christianity meant, you would list those things that I laid out as core Christian doctrines, unless you were conciously trying to exclude mormons.

Sir…wishing that you were…and I do, does not change reality. I am certain that JS believed that he was a prophet…said so…and required his followers to believe and profess this as you do. If he plagarized the KJ version of the Bible…ignoring or perhaps ignorant of the fact that the Bible was not originally written in KJ english, beautiful as it was…then he was a common forgerer and a fraud. Doing these things in order to captivate the gullible is worse than forgery and I would not want to be in his shoes. A motorcycle…according to the AMA definition, is a vehicle with 3 wheels or less. Now somebody can ride a vehicle with 4 wheels and tell everyone that they are riding a motorcycle…they may actually believe it but the definition of a motorcycle as described by the AMA would refute this…even if the rider had on a motorcycle helmet…leather pants and waved to all the other motorcycle riders on the road. Having a few similarities…talking about “Jesus”…etc does not make one a Christian even if, as a person, you may be nicer than some Christians. It is your doctrine that departs from Christianity and that has nothing to do with how “nice” a person you are or well meaning…and I sense that you are a very …very nice person. LDS doctrine has changed over the years to make it more appealing to a broader base…nice move…very political…very practical…also not very authentic or genuine, certainly not very rock like.
One more item…does it seem plausible that God would allow mankind to be led by an apostate Church for centuries and then invest a new truth with a man the likes of Joseph Smith? I personally would forget how good some of LDS actions may be…how attractive the lifestyle may be…how you all seem to network with each other for common good. Christ’s message seems to be personal salvation brought by a personal dedication to the a Christ like life style…not a cozy relationship with family… as nice as that is. My last sentence was not meant to make fun of that aspect of LDS emphasis…it was one example of what seems to many to be one of the pop culture appeals to nice people…who ultimately want to join these other nice people…in their church. It is a strong appeal…but the wrong appeal.

 

[Cowboy_Pete]

Being Christian is trying as hard as you can to follow Christ teaching and having faith in Him.

Interesting. LDS would say that trying as hard as you can to follow Christ’s teachings is what would make you a saint.

If a Catholic doesn’t try as hard as he or she can to follow Christ, do you say that Catholic is not a Christian?"

Most folks that I know that call themselves Christians, mean someone who believes themselves to be saved from death and hell through Jesus Christ’s atonement.

If that person doesn’t try to follow Christ’s teachings, we say that they are “not a good Christian.”

Do Catholics never use the phrase “not a good Christian”? Because from your definition, all Christians would be good Christians.

If he plagarized the KJ version of the Bible…ignoring or perhaps ignorant of the fact that the Bible was not originally written in KJ english, beautiful as it was

LoL! The book of Mormon does not “plagiarize” the Bible, any more than Paul “plagiarized” the Old Testament whenever he cited it. The Book of Mormon quotes the words of Isaiah. JS, recognizing that the meaning was identical to Bible verses, used the language which he was familiar with for such contexts, i.e. the King James Bible.

 

[RebeccaJ]

“Don’t call me a saint. I don’t want to be dismissed so easily.” Dorothy Day

 

[Cowboy_Pete]

“Don’t call me a saint. I don’t want to be dismissed so easily.” Dorothy Day

The question is, do you take Doris Day, or the Bible as the authority on what Saint means?

 

[pablope]

Interesting. LDS would say that trying as hard as you can to follow Christ’s teachings is what would make you a saint.

If a Catholic doesn’t try as hard as he or she can to follow Christ, do you say that Catholic is not a Christian?"

Most folks that I know that call themselves Christians, mean someone who believes themselves to be saved from death and hell through Jesus Christ’s atonement.

If that person doesn’t try to follow Christ’s teachings, we say that they are “not a good Christian.”

Do Catholics never use the phrase “not a good Christian”? Because from your definition, all Christians would be good Christians.

.

There is more to it…

Matthew 7:21…21 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.

heb 10…
26 If we deliberately keep on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no sacrifice for sins is left, 27 but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume the enemies of God.

36 You need to persevere so that when you have done the will of God, you will receive what he has promised.