LDS: Jesus always God?

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Wow, that really is a sad story, not just because of the story about this so-called “AntiChrist” itself, but because most of it is so utterly nonsensical. I also have no words for the absurdity of the names of the people, much less the towns. Even without the old English, this story makes no sense to me, at all. Theologically, it would be absolutely laughable if it wasn’t such a sad depiction of what seems to be some form of church ‘justice’, supposedly sanctioned by God. :ehh:

Is that really a chapter from the BoM, or is it one of your own fictions?

:confused: :confused: :confused:
It is a fairly tight retelling of Alma 30 but I took some liberties with Korihor’s speech. Not much, but enough to point out its true meaning. Go ahead and read the original. It really won’t hurt you.
 
It is a fairly tight retelling of Alma 30 but I took some liberties with Korihor’s speech. Not much, but enough to point out its true meaning. Go ahead and read the original. It really won’t hurt you.
OK, I went to the LDS website to read the original, just to see how different it was. It really wasn’t. The names of the towns were slightly different, but the premise of the whole thing was still just as silly and nonsensical as your ‘translation’. I have to wonder what the LDS think the point of this whole thing is supposed to be, or what theological lessons it’s supposed to teach, because I can’t for the life of me think of one, except that you shouldn’t follow people like Joseph Smith. If one of the LDS folks could explain it, I’d really appreciate it.

If the BoM is supposed to be so great at teaching lessons to people that read it, then this chapter seems to have failed miserably. For one thing, the main character completely contradicts himself by saying that he believes God exists, but he doesn’t believe in God. 37 And then Alma said unto him: Believest thou that there is a God?
38 And he answered, Nay.

*48 Now Korihor said unto him: I do not deny the existence of a God, but I do not believe that there is a God; and I say also, that ye do not know that there is a God; and except ye show me a sign, I will not believe.*Huh? What the hell is that supposed to mean? I don’t even know who the good guys or the bad guys are supposed to be in this entire story. IMHO they were all bad. I really didn’t see any of them do much of anything that I would consider to be good, and certainly not Godly. I would almost see the main character, Korihor, to be a reflection of Joseph Smith, in a weird sort of way, because of the references to his visions of an angel that was really the devil in disguise. * 53 But behold, the devil hath deceived me; for he appeared unto me in the form of an angel, and said unto me: Go and reclaim this people, for they have all gone astray after an unknown God. And he said unto me: There is no God; yea, and he taught me that which I should say. And I have taught his words; and I taught them because they were pleasing unto the carnal mind; and I taught them, even until I had much success, insomuch that I verily believed that they were true; and for this cause I withstood the truth, even until I have brought this great curse upon me.*It’s almost like JS was telling this story to see if any of his followers would ever pick up on the similarities to what he was actually doing to them. Even Korihor’s death in the end, was almost prophetic of his own end, which I also thought was pretty ironic. Although, I seriously doubt that any Mormon would ever admit to even thinking this character sounded a lot like JS, unless they twisted it to mean something that somehow glorified him. Am I the only one that sees it this way?
 
LOL There are many prophecies of the end of Mormonism in the Book of Mormon.
 
LOL There are many prophecies of the end of Mormonism in the Book of Mormon.
Actually, another thing that I always found to be ironic, is all the references to the “great and abominable church” that could be interpreted as referring to Mormonism, even though they see it ‘differently’. 😃
 
Exactly. They are so busy condemning others that they refuse to look at themselves.
 
Exactly. They are so busy condemning others that they refuse to look at themselves.
That might actually be a good topic for another thread, to take a closer look at BoM/LDS ‘prophecies’ to see how they stand up to scrutiny and interpretation.
 
Sure, go ahead. I will have to search through my work for them. Good topic.
 
Jerusha,

That was awesome!

Can I have your permission to use this to illustrate to my children, for talking with them about why it might be that the language used in the Book of Mormon is in a more formal “King James Bible”-type of English than simpler phrases such as this example shows? (We wouldn’t be knocking it–it just is a great take-off point to have a pretty meaningful discussion about that subject.)

If you object, I won’t do it. But I still enjoyed reading this.👍
Book of Mormon stories.

A man named Korihor came to Zarahemla. He did not believe in Jesus Christ and preached that what the prophets had said about the Savior was not true.

Korihor told the people they were foolish to believe that Jesus would come to the earth and suffer for their sins.

He said people could not be punished for their sins because there was no life after death. Many people believed Korihor. They became wicked.

Korihor tried preaching to the people of Ammon, but they would not listen. They tied him up and took him to Ammon, who forced him out of the city.

Korihor went to the land of Gideon, but the people there would not listen to him either. The chief judge sent him to Alma.

Alma asked Korihor if he believed in God. Korihor said he did not. Alma testified that there is a God and that Christ would come.

Korihor wanted Alma to perform a miracle to prove there is a God. Korihor said he would believe in God if he saw a sign of God’s power.

Alma told Korihor he had already seen many signs of God’s power through the scriptures and the testimonies of all the prophets.

Alma said the earth and everything on it and the movement of the planets in the sky are also signs that there is a God.

Korihor still refused to believe. Alma was sad because of Korihor’s wickedness and warned him that his soul might be destroyed.

Korihor still wanted a sign to prove there is a God. Alma said the sign from God would be that Korihor would not be able to speak.

After Alma said this, Korihor could not speak.

Korihor wrote that he knew this sign was from God and that he had always known there is a God. He asked Alma to pray and remove the curse.

Alma knew that if Korihor could speak he would lie again to the people. Alma said the Lord would decide if Korihor would speak again.

The Lord did not give Korihor back his speech. Korihor went from house to house, begging for food.

The chief judge sent a letter throughout the land telling what had happened to Korihor. He told those who had believed Korihor to repent. The people repented.

Korihor went to live with the Zoramites. One day while he was begging, he was trampled to death.
 
Sure, go ahead. I will have to search through my work for them. Good topic.
I am busy doing a BoM word-study on “ripening for destruction” and “dwindling in unbelief” May target some other words. Working on it.
 
I’ve replied in another lds thread that my take on the whole situation is that some guy claims he found a golden book and founds a sect on it and some guy sits in a cave(muhamed) and says the Angel Gabriel came to him and told and continued to tell him what to do when there were problems-like when he married the 9 year old girl.Where are the witnesses like the Disciples!
 
Both were unchallenged, and both condemned all other forms of religion and people.
 
Showing how Mormons are in apostasy from those parts of the BoM that are derived from the Bible.
 
Showing how Mormons are in apostasy from those parts of the BoM that are derived from the Bible.
The fact that that much effort is required in order to refute Mormon doctrine is a little startling.
 
The fact that that much effort is required in order to refute Mormon doctrine is a little startling.
It’s not exactly what I had in mind when I mentioned LDS prophecies, and some of my own interpretations of the BoM. 😊
 
It’s not exactly what I had in mind when I mentioned LDS prophecies, and some of my own interpretations of the BoM. 😊
Yes, it definitely seemed to go off on a bit of a tangent. There really is no denying the fraudulent nature of Mormonism in and of itself. It has more break-away groups than can be imagined for such a recent movement.
Now, if I were a Mormon, and I actually approached my religion as a critical thinker, I don’t think I’d survive. On a human, fallible level, Mormonism has about the shadiest history going. Its theology is an absolute hodgepodge of doctrines that are ever-changing, to the point where Mormonism is a kind of Restorationist Frankenstein’s Monster.

You can only play blind for so long, until the obvious about the whole thing is eventually realized. We have enough information and history on the movement and its beginnings and Joseph Smith to conclude with almost no doubt at all that Smith’s movement is based on forgeries, fantasies, and all the rest. These aren’t paranoid ramblings of Jack Chick-type guys or conspiracy theorists, it’s just basic history at play here. Me saying that someone like Sun Myung Moon is a nut is not me being a conspiracy theorist or loonie street preacher yelling at everybody about how they’re going to hell, it’s just basic fact. Use some basic logic and critical thinking skills, and you’ll arrive at the conclusion that “something’s rotten in Denmark” when it comes to Mormonism.
 
Yes, it definitely seemed to go off on a bit of a tangent. There really is no denying the fraudulent nature of Mormonism in and of itself. It has more break-away groups than can be imagined for such a recent movement.
Now, if I were a Mormon, and I actually approached my religion as a critical thinker, I don’t think I’d survive. On a human, fallible level, Mormonism has about the shadiest history going. Its theology is an absolute hodgepodge of doctrines that are ever-changing, to the point where Mormonism is a kind of Restorationist Frankenstein’s Monster.

You can only play blind for so long, until the obvious about the whole thing is eventually realized. We have enough information and history on the movement and its beginnings and Joseph Smith to conclude with almost no doubt at all that Smith’s movement is based on forgeries, fantasies, and all the rest. These aren’t paranoid ramblings of Jack Chick-type guys or conspiracy theorists, it’s just basic history at play here. Me saying that someone like Sun Myung Moon is a nut is not me being a conspiracy theorist or loonie street preacher yelling at everybody about how they’re going to hell, it’s just basic fact. Use some basic logic and critical thinking skills, and you’ll arrive at the conclusion that “something’s rotten in Denmark” when it comes to Mormonism.
Reason is something to be avoided at all costs, as is sound philosophical thought. It is all about internal feelings no matter where they may lead; no matter the conflicts with one’s own beliefs. I think that the Mormon ability to hold conflicting doctrines simultaneously would be a very interesting study in human psychology.
 
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