One word explains the entire phenomenon: Sin. That is why I usually try to refer proofs of absurdity to moral principles like accountability and non-hypocrisy. When people hold a false position even after its error has been manifested in crystalline form, it finally just shows that the problem has never been intellectual, but moral. All we can do at that point is move the conversation into the area of personal ethics and then pray in secret for them.
It’s true, but Mormons will quickly point out that it isn’t an official teaching of their church and that the evidence doesn’t show that Smith claimed this was revealed knowledge. I think that is a pretty fair response in a way, since Mormons don’t claim their prophet knows everything about everything. I think it is good to cut them some slack on that point, although it should still be noted as evidence that Smith was prone to make wild claims. It adds plausibility to non-prophetic explanations of Smith’s behavior, but does not amount to a per se argument against Mormon doctrine.If I’ve learned anything from debating Mormons, it’s that I should not expect answers. There’s something else at play in Mormonism, and it is something that manages to avoid logic altogether.
Any person thinking even somewhat critically would have some major sirens go off in their mind if they were told that their prophet held that people who looked like Quakers lived on the moon, if that’s even true - I’ve never heard that allegation before.
What surprises me when people quote Oliver Huntington about what he remembered from his boyhood, is that they would think he had a perfect memory and that knowing that Joseph Smith played with children and youth as a part of his gregarious personality, Oliver Huntington could have been remembering a response to some childish question where the answer appeared to him to be a “correct answer” yet could logically have been “pulling their leg.”
PepbandMom,Oliver Huntington’s remarks were 1st published February 1881 in “Journal of Oliver B. Huntington,” book 14, original at Huntington Library, San Marino, CA; also a typed copy at Utah State Historical Society vol. 3, p. 166.
“Inhabitants of the Moon are more of a uniform size than the inhabitants of the Earth, being about 6 feet in height.
They dress very much like the quaker Style & are quite general in Style, or the one fashion of dress.
They live to be very old; comeing [sic] generally, near a thousand years.
This is the description of them as given by Joseph the Seer, and he could “See” whatever he asked the Father in the name of Jesus to see.”
Brigham Young stated on July 24, 1870, from Journal of Discourses, vol. 13, p. 271:
“Who can tell us of the inhabitants of this little planet that shines of an evening, called the moon?.. when you inquire about the inhabitants of that sphere you find that the most learned are as ignorant in regard to them as the ignorant of their fellows. So it is in regard to the inhabitants of the sun. Do you think it is inhabited? I rather think it is. Do you think there is any life there? No question of it; it was not made in vain.”
Huntington, AGAIN, in the Young Women’s Journal published by the Young Ladies’ mutual Improvement Associations of Zion, 1892, vol. 3, pp. 263-264.:
"Nearly all the great discoveries of men in the last half century have, in one way or another, either directly or indirectly, contributed to prove Joseph Smith to be a Prophet.
As far back as 1837, I know that he said the moon was inhabited by men and women the same as this earth, and that they lived to a greater age than we do, that they live generally to near the age of a 1000 years.
He described the men as averaging near six feet in eight, and dressing quite uniformly in something near Quaker style.
In my Patriarchal blessing, given by the father of Joseph the Prophet, in Kirtland, 1837, I was told that I should preach the gospel before I was 21 years of age; that I should preach to the inhabitants upon the islands of the sea, and-to the inhabitants of the moon, even the planet you can now behold with your eyes."
Interestingly: Huntington’s story in 1837 and 1892 plus Young’s quote. Young didn’t miss his opportunity to hitch his horses on the moon’s inhabitants’ band wagon, did he?
Smith started it,
Young parroted it,
Huntington vouches for it 50+ years later
What do patriarchal blessings and humorous children’s stories have in common - or are they one in the same?
Context, Context, Context…
Funny how you dismiss what someone said remembering from his boyhood, yet you believe what Joseph said remembering from HIS boyhood about the first vision even though there are so many versions of it. It is this type of selective acceptance that mars the LDS Church
TexanKnight,
Ah…so the truth changes depending on who you talk to? Your age at the time of the vision changes based on the audience? Angels being present and how many personages appeared changes depending on the audience? Come on, Parker, you are smarter than this
it is one thing to have difficulty interpreting Sacred Scripture written thousands of years ago which has been translated through several languages, it’s another to have ‘scripture’ written only 200 yrs ago be so obtuse. With the access to cheap writing materials and an average education JS should have been able to write down his ‘teachings’ in pretty easy to understand English. The fact that the ‘translation’ of the ‘golden plates’ was in Elizabethan/King James style English is evidence of a fraud.
vsedriver,