LDS: King Follett Sermon - WOW! WOW! WOW!

[rpp]

Mormons don’t believe in God. That’s impossible to reconcile with Catholicism.

Mormons do not believe in the Trinitarian God. That cannot be reconciled with Catholicism.

Mormons believe that the Catholic Church became apostate within the first couple of hundred years after Christ’s resurrection. That cannot be reconciled with Catholicism.

Mormons believe that God the Father was once a creature who became God. That cannot be reconciled with Catholicism.

and so on… and so on… and so on…

 

[1holycatholic]

Thank you for revealing your ignorance by telling me what you think Mormons don’t believe. However, I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you meant to say that the Mormon concept of God is different from the Catholic concept, to which I will say, “duh.” Even so, different interpretations of the same concept are easier to reconcile than if in one system the concept is completely alien or antagonistic.

There is no such thing.

 

[rpp]

Thank you for revealing your ignorance by telling me what you think Mormons don’t believe. However, I will give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you meant to say that the Mormon concept of God is different from the Catholic concept, to which I will say, “duh.” Even so, different interpretations of the same concept are easier to reconcile than if in one system the concept is completely alien or antagonistic.

But according to you, one does not have to reconcile anything.

Such thinking is demonstrably ridiculous. Using such an approach a person could never design a complex machine or develop a theory or make scientific advances.

 

[1holycatholic]

Mormons do not believe in the Trinitarian God. That cannot be reconciled with Catholicism.

Mormons are not monotheists. They are polytheists. This is incompatible with Natural Theology. They do not believe in God, they believe in Gods. This is absolutely incompatible with Catholicism.

 

[rmcmullan]

It’s officially taught right here:

lds.org/library/display/0,4945,11-1-13-59,00.html

Please don’t try to tell us this is not taught in the LDS Church. It is taught to all new members in the new member classes from this manual. This comes directly from the King Follet sermon. If a quote from a manual used to teach new members is not really doctrine then the LDS Church is schizophrenic.

You need to be more careful in reading posts. If you’re trying to engage anyone on this topic they necessarily must speak from unauthoratative sources. While I think Gospel Principles is an excellent source, it’s not canonized scripture and neither is the KFD. It is doctrine that is not fully developed.

Most LDS do believe it though. I know I do. It just makes sense to me.

 

[rmcmullan]

Most non-Mormons have their biggest struggle in getting their minds around the concept of eternal progression because it breaks their preconceived idea of what God is like. AT least what they have been taught that He is like by their priests or evangelists. But that is the only argument I ever hear proferred.

How about someone saying, “That doesn’t make sense! How could I possible progress or learn or accomplish more things in the eternities to come? Once I die and am resurrected, I will be come eternal and immortal and no matter how long eternity is, I’ll never learn or accomplish anything new!” So you carefully craft your argument around the huge whole in the whole idea of eternal progression.

 

[PaulDupre]

No one is saying that WE do not progress after death…WE certainly do. We go through purgatory and are refined and purged and made completely holy, we are resurrected and glorified, and we enter the beatific vision and live the life that God lives - all after WE die.

What Christians object to is the notion that GOD progresses - that He has not always been infinitely good, holy, powerful, knowing, etc. That is what Mormons are unable to wrap their minds around.

Paul

 

[why_me]

I look at it all with an open mind. I see nothing wrong in the idea that god was once a man. But I can see nothing wrong in the catholic idea either. Both have valid points and implications.

But I don’t let it bog me down. Dogma is dogma but how we live this life is important. I am sure that there are many people who do dogma and yet, are terrible human beings. There are much that mormons and catholics can agree on. And that should be stressed.

 

[why_me]

That is probably one of the most arrogant statements I have ever read.

How does anyone possible believe that? God created us he is the one who gave us our humaness, He made us, he and only he knows just exactly how we are made. He and only he knows exactly how we think, he and only he knows everyones humaness. He most certainly does not have to learn from us about our humaness, he is the one who made us!

Perhaps, but if god never had a physical form, he could not know what it would mean to have a physical body. And it would not matter if he created us, he could not know from personal experience.

To have a physical body is a gift from god. And this why we are instructed both catholic and mormon to keep the body holy as a temple of god, to keep it holy for the holy spirit to dwell in.

And what is satan’s goal? To destroy our bodies because he has been deprived of receiving one.

Lets look at it this way: We venerate saints. At the moment I am reading about Saint Bernedette. She was a wonderful young woman who saw the Virgin Mary and she became a nun. But she had physical problems, asthma for example. And she was born in poverty.

We know that if we pray to our patron saint or to another saint for intercession, it may help us. And we also know, that they understand our problems because they were once like us, human.

Why would god be any different?

 

[BartBurk]

You need to be more careful in reading posts. If you’re trying to engage anyone on this topic they necessarily must speak from unauthoratative sources. While I think Gospel Principles is an excellent source, it’s not canonized scripture and neither is the KFD. It is doctrine that is not fully developed.

Most LDS do believe it though. I know I do. It just makes sense to me.

You cannot call the Gospel Principles manual and excellent source and an unauthoratative source at the same time. It is the manual for teaching new members. It has been vetted by the leaders of the LDS Church. Don’t try to weasel out of this by saying it’s not canonized scripture. Since when have the Mormons limited themselves to canonized scripture? Mormons are embarrassed about this doctrine and so they try to deny it’s really taught. Even President Hinckley denied it was taught when the proof is right on the LDS web site that it is taught! Mormons are just “lying for the Lord” when they try this tactic. Pretty dishonest.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

Perhaps, but if god never had a physical form, he could not know what it would mean to have a physical body. And it would not matter if he created us, he could not know from personal experience.

To have a physical body is a gift from god. And this why we are instructed both catholic and mormon to keep the body holy as a temple of god, to keep it holy for the holy spirit to dwell in.

And what is satan’s goal? To destroy our bodies because he has been deprived of receiving one.

Lets look at it this way: We venerate saints. At the moment I am reading about Saint Bernedette. She was a wonderful young woman who saw the Virgin Mary and she became a nun. But she had physical problems, asthma for example. And she was born in poverty.

We know that if we pray to our patron saint or to another saint for intercession, it may help us. And we also know, that they understand our problems because they were once like us, human.

Why would god be any different?

God did have to have a physical body to understand what it is that we go through. He knew already that it would be a rough row to hoe that is why he told Adam and Eve that if they eat of the Fruit of the Tree of knowledge they would die. He knew already. Also why would god really need to understand what the frailties of the human condition are? He has called us to rise above them to be more that what we are by relying on him.

Also I not sure if you have every really thought about this, but for god to have once been man make him a Liar. For we From Scripture we know that God is the Alpha and The Omega, The First and the Last. If he was a man created by another god then he is not what the Bible says he is. You can not be the First if you were created by another. You can not be the last if your creation can be come as you.

 

[BartBurk]

Perhaps, but if god never had a physical form, he could not know what it would mean to have a physical body. And it would not matter if he created us, he could not know from personal experience.

To have a physical body is a gift from god. And this why we are instructed both catholic and mormon to keep the body holy as a temple of god, to keep it holy for the holy spirit to dwell in.

And what is satan’s goal? To destroy our bodies because he has been deprived of receiving one.

Lets look at it this way: We venerate saints. At the moment I am reading about Saint Bernedette. She was a wonderful young woman who saw the Virgin Mary and she became a nun. But she had physical problems, asthma for example. And she was born in poverty.

We know that if we pray to our patron saint or to another saint for intercession, it may help us. And we also know, that they understand our problems because they were once like us, human.

Why would god be any different?

What part of the statement “Jesus is God” don’t you understand?

 

[AMDGtoo]

Also I not sure if you have every really thought about this, but for god to have once been man make him a Liar.

Numbers 23:19 (KJV) “God is not a man, that he should lie, neither the son of man, that he should repent: hath he said and shall he not do it?”

 

[RebeccaJ]

He’s both, just as I and RebeccaJ are. You can’t un-Catholic yourself, and both I and RebeccaJ are still on the official rolls of the LDS church.

When I start wearing mormon underwear while receiving communion, I’ll proudly say that I am both.

 

[AMDGtoo]

Until you take your name off the rolls, you can’t say anything negative about what I’m doing.

Why?

 

[rmcmullan]

No one is saying that WE do not progress after death…WE certainly do. We go through purgatory and are refined and purged and made completely holy, we are resurrected and glorified, and we enter the beatific vision and live the life that God lives - all after WE die.

What Christians object to is the notion that GOD progresses - that He has not always been infinitely good, holy, powerful, knowing, etc. That is what Mormons are unable to wrap their minds around.

Paul

You’re right on that. I can’t see how God can bring the world to salvation and resurrect and glorify His own without that adding to His own glory. I don’t know what else He does, but His glory expands with all His works and I believe His works are endless.

 

[RebeccaJ]

You know just as well as I that you can be Mormon without wearing special underwear. Until you take your name off the rolls, you can’t say anything negative about what I’m doing.

Ah, I see, you still believe your mormon baptism actually did something for you. I have no such belief.

And I will add, according to what “rules”? Do you believe that my name on a religious role makes me a Mormon? Is that all it takes? Well damn Tsuzuki, I could get baptized every day for a year and call myself 367 different religions.

Maybe some, I could just find church websites where I can register, no baptism required.

Cool, maybe I’ll see how many different religions I can be!

Want to make it a contest? The person who has the most church memberships by Christmas WINS!!!

 

[rmcmullan]

You cannot call the Gospel Principles manual and excellent source and an unauthoratative source at the same time. It is the manual for teaching new members. It has been vetted by the leaders of the LDS Church. Don’t try to weasel out of this by saying it’s not canonized scripture. Since when have the Mormons limited themselves to canonized scripture? Mormons are embarrassed about this doctrine and so they try to deny it’s really taught. Even President Hinckley denied it was taught when the proof is right on the LDS web site that it is taught! Mormons are just “lying for the Lord” when they try this tactic. Pretty dishonest.

Since you don’t believe what is said to you plainly, I will argue forcefully in defense of the doctrine. But please keep this disclaimer in mind.

 

[RebeccaJ]

You’re right on that. I can’t see how God can bring the world to salvation and resurrect and glorify His own without that adding to His own glory. I don’t know what else He does, but His glory expands with all His works and I believe His works are endless.

God’s glory has no need to expand. He is not on the fast track to godly CEO of the universe.

God has ALL glory, now and forever, you cannot add to His glory, you cannot take away from His glory.

And indeed, His works are endless.

His Sacrifice was for US, for our salvation. God has no need of being redeemed.

 

[truthsilence]

Perhaps, but if god never had a physical form, he could not know what it would mean to have a physical body. And it would not matter if he created us, he could not know from personal experience.

To have a physical body is a gift from god. And this why we are instructed both catholic and mormon to keep the body holy as a temple of god, to keep it holy for the holy spirit to dwell in.

**And what is satan’s goal? To destroy our bodies because he has been deprived of receiving one.
**
Lets look at it this way: We venerate saints. At the moment I am reading about Saint Bernedette. She was a wonderful young woman who saw the Virgin Mary and she became a nun. But she had physical problems, asthma for example. And she was born in poverty.

We know that if we pray to our patron saint or to another saint for intercession, it may help us. And we also know, that they understand our problems because they were once like us, human.

Why would god be any different?

The Devil was never slated to receive a Human body and neither were the rest of the fallen Angels who turned against God.

(Yes, there was a war in heaven. But you and I were not there).

Angels are purely spiritual, immortal, creations of God. They’ve always been Angels, they’re Angels now, and they will still be Angels, when they announce the return of Christ in his glory.