LDS: King Follett Sermon - WOW! WOW! WOW!

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Catholic_Dude said:
No. God cannot be added or subtracted from. Those passages mean the transcendent Glory of God is more fully revealed to His creatures. When someone realizes a Truth more fully and they say, “Glory be to God!” that means THEY THEMSELF recognized God’s Glory in a more profound way, NOT that they were adding onto God.

You left this critical remark off of your John 12 quote:28Father, glorify your name!" Then a voice came from heaven, “I have glorified it, and will glorify it again.” 29The crowd that was there and heard it said it had thundered; others said an angel had spoken to him.
30Jesus said, "This voice was for your benefit, not mine.
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And that supposedly proves your interpretation? How?

zerinus
 
zerinus said:
And that supposedly proves your interpretation? How?

zerinus
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God wasn’t increasing in Glory - the voice from Heaven was for OUR benefit to realize just how great God is.

The “I will Glorify it Again” is obviously a reference to the Resurrection where again man will recognize God’s Glory in a more profound way than before.
 
Catholic_Dude said:
God wasn’t increasing in Glory - the voice from Heaven was for OUR benefit to realize just how great God is.

The “I will Glorify it Again” is obviously a reference to the Resurrection where again man will recognize God’s Glory in a more profound way than before.
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That is stretching it an awful lot. The voice was intended for our benefit because Jesus did not need the instruction, we did. He already knew what He was about. But the nature of the instruction does not change just because it was addressed to us rather than to Jesus. The underlying meaning of the message remains the same—i.e. that God is glorified through the actions of the Son. The Atonement of Jesus glorifies, or adds glory, to the Father; and we are being instructed that that is the case. That is the meaning of the message that was addressed to the disciples—and hence to us.

zerinus
 
Why in the world would God need further glory when He is already has all glory? Wow! I never realized that the Mormon god is so lacking–not omiscent, not omnipresent, needing more of glory so we have to presume that he’s not majestic either, unable to understand the creatures that he created. How wimpy. I guess that’s another difference we have for sure. Our God is omniscent, omnipresent, majestic, the source of all–not some wimpy man so lacking that his only hope is make us his “cheering squad”.
 
zerinus said:
That is stretching it an awful lot. The voice was intended for our benefit because Jesus did not need the instruction, we did. He already knew what He was about. But the nature of the instruction does not change just because it was addressed to us rather than to Jesus. The underlying meaning of the message remains the same—i.e. that God is glorified through the actions of the Son. The Atonement of Jesus glorifies, or adds glory, to the Father; and we are being instructed that that is the case. That is the meaning of the message that was addressed to the disciples—and hence to us.

zerinus
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NO what it means is that all glory is God’s. In other words god is saying you have seen my Glory and I shall show it to you again.

glo·ry (glôr, glr)
n. pl. glo·ries
  1. Great honor, praise, or distinction accorded by common consent; renown.
  2. Something conferring honor or renown.
  3. A highly praiseworthy asset: Your wit is your crowning glory.
  4. Adoration, praise, and thanksgiving offered in worship.
  5. Majestic beauty and splendor; resplendence: The sun set in a blaze of glory.
  6. The splendor and bliss of heaven; perfect happiness.
  7. A height of achievement, enjoyment, or prosperity: ancient Rome in its greatest glory.
  8. A halo, nimbus, or aureole. Also called gloriole.
    intr.v. glo·ried, glo·ry·ing, glo·ries
    To rejoice triumphantly; exult: a sports team that gloried in its hard-won victory.
    [Middle English glorie, from Old French, from Latin glria.]
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2003. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
glory
Noun
pl -ries
  1. fame, praise, or honour: tales of glory
  2. splendour: the glory of the tropical day
  3. something worthy of praise: the Lady Chapel is the great glory of Lichfield
  4. adoration or worship: the greater glory of God .
The definition is from free dictionary.com and from all the that is given I would say God possess all there is of each definition. there for if you have it all you can not add more to it.

All praise, all Glory, and all Honor are yours our Father forever and ever Amen.
 
zerinus said:
That is stretching it an awful lot. The voice was intended for our benefit because Jesus did not need the instruction, we did. He already knew what He was about. But the nature of the instruction does not change just because it was addressed to us rather than to Jesus. The underlying meaning of the message remains the same—i.e. that God is glorified through the actions of the Son. The Atonement of Jesus glorifies, or adds glory, to the Father; and we are being instructed that that is the case. That is the meaning of the message that was addressed to the disciples—and hence to us.

zerinus
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No that was not the meaning, that is YOUR interpretation, God is God he does not need to be glorified through anyone. nor does he need added Glory! I would like to know how you can minimize God by saying he does?
 
zerinus said:
That is stretching it an awful lot. The voice was intended for our benefit because Jesus did not need the instruction, we did. He already knew what He was about. But the nature of the instruction does not change just because it was addressed to us rather than to Jesus. The underlying meaning of the message remains the same—i.e. that God is glorified through the actions of the Son. The Atonement of Jesus glorifies, or adds glory, to the Father; and we are being instructed that that is the case. That is the meaning of the message that was addressed to the disciples—and hence to us.

zerinus
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Aristides of Athens, Apology to the Emperor Hadrian Caesar 1 & 4 (C. 140 AD):
“When I saw that the world and all that is in it is moved by a force, I understood that He who moves and maintains it is God; for whatever moves something is stronger than that which is moved, and whatever maintains something is stronger than that which is maintained. I call the One who constructed all things and maintains them God: He that is without beginning and eternal, immortal and lacking nothing, and who is above all passions and failings such as anger and forgetfulness and ignorance and the rest…Let us proceed, then, O King, to the elements themselves, so that we may demonstrate concerning them that they are not gods, but corruptible and changeable things, produced out of the non-existent by Him that is truly God, who is incorruptible and unchangeable and invisible.”
The early Church Fathers, Natural Theology, and the consistent teaching of the Catholic Church (which was established by Christ Himself) all state that God is immutable. Why do you persist in spreading misinformation that says otherwise?
 
1holycatholic said:
The early Church Fathers, Natural Theology, and the consistent teaching of the Catholic Church (which was established by Christ Himself) all state that God is immutable. Why do you persist in spreading misinformation that says otherwise?
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That’s what I would like to know! why make God less that what he is? It just boggles the mind:)
 
Nordar said:
That’s what I would like to know! why make God less that what he is? It just boggles the mind:)
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It beats me. I had 2 LDS missionaries stop by the house today. Very nice young men. I tried to be as polite as I could be when they asked what It was that I disagreed with the Mormon teaching on. And It was very hard to do as I did not want to beat them over the head with all the errors that the LDS teach. I did point out that eternal marriage is not what Christ( only because they brought it up) spoke of. they did not argue that at all. I really wish I could have had time to sit and talk with them as it was my dogs were going nuts so I was unable to invite them In and we were have a pitch in dinner at Church to welcome our new Priest so i was getting ready for that.
 
oneGODoneCHURCH said:
NO what it means is that all glory is God’s. In other words god is saying you have seen my Glory and I shall show it to you again.

glo•ry (glôr, glr)
n. pl. glo•ries
  1. Great honor, praise, or distinction accorded by common consent; renown.
  2. Something conferring honor or renown.
  3. A highly praiseworthy asset: Your wit is your crowning glory.
  4. Adoration, praise, and thanksgiving offered in worship.
  5. Majestic beauty and splendor; resplendence: The sun set in a blaze of glory.
  6. The splendor and bliss of heaven; perfect happiness.
  7. A height of achievement, enjoyment, or prosperity: ancient Rome in its greatest glory.
  8. A halo, nimbus, or aureole. Also called gloriole.
    intr.v. glo•ried, glo•ry•ing, glo•ries
    To rejoice triumphantly; exult: a sports team that gloried in its hard-won victory.
    [Middle English glorie, from Old French, from Latin glria.]
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2003. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
glory
Noun
pl -ries
  1. fame, praise, or honour: tales of glory
  2. splendour: the glory of the tropical day
  3. something worthy of praise: the Lady Chapel is the great glory of Lichfield
  4. adoration or worship: the greater glory of God .
The definition is from free dictionary.com and from all the that is given I would say God possess all there is of each definition. there for if you have it all you can not add more to it.

All praise, all Glory, and all Honor are yours our Father forever and ever Amen.
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Thank you. Those are all good definitions, and explain what it means to glorify God. It means to add greater honor, praise, distinction, adoration to Him.

zerinus
 
Nordar said:
No that was not the meaning, that is YOUR interpretation, God is God he does not need to be glorified through anyone. nor does he need added Glory! I would like to know how you can minimize God by saying he does?
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I am not minimizing God at all. You are the one who has difficulty believing or accepting what He has actually said.

zerinus
 
1holycatholic said:
Aristides of Athens, Apology to the Emperor Hadrian Caesar 1 & 4 (C. 140 AD):
“When I saw that the world and all that is in it is moved by a force, I understood that He who moves and maintains it is God; for whatever moves something is stronger than that which is moved, and whatever maintains something is stronger than that which is maintained. I call the One who constructed all things and maintains them God: He that is without beginning and eternal, immortal and lacking nothing, and who is above all passions and failings such as anger and forgetfulness and ignorance and the rest…Let us proceed, then, O King, to the elements themselves, so that we may demonstrate concerning them that they are not gods, but corruptible and changeable things, produced out of the non-existent by Him that is truly God, who is incorruptible and unchangeable and invisible.”
The early Church Fathers, Natural Theology, and the consistent teaching of the Catholic Church (which was established by Christ Himself) all state that God is immutable. Why do you persist in spreading misinformation that says otherwise?
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You just know how to shout. Reason and logic are distinctly lacking.

zerinus
 
Nordar said:
That’s what I would like to know! why make God less that what he is? It just boggles the mind:)
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Perhaps you should address that question to Him. I didn’t write those scriptures; He did.

zerinus
 
zerinus said:
I am not minimizing God at all. You are the one who has difficulty believing or accepting what He has actually said.

zerinus
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Nope no difficulty here~ it is your interpretation that is the problem!
 
zerinus said:
I am not minimizing God at all. You are the one who has difficulty believing or accepting what He has actually said.
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He founded the Church on Peter and promised that the gates of Hell would not prevail against it. You deny this.

You are the one who has difficulty believing or accepting what He has actually said.
 
Nordar said:
Like I said there is nothing wrong with scripture! Your interpretation is what is off!
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Then it must be your interpretation that is wrong, because I am not “interpreting” it at all. I am just reading it at it is—as it was intended to be read. The “interpretation” is all coming from you.

zerinus
 
zerinus said:
Then it must be your interpretation that is wrong, because I am not “interpreting” it at all. I am just reading it at it is—as it was intended to be read. The “interpretation” is all coming from you.

zerinus
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Like I said Just boggles the mind!
 
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