LDS: King Follett Sermon - WOW! WOW! WOW!

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ronald_g_w said:
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He is still refered to as a god therefor there is more than one god
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Dude, the devil is not a god. You are trying to contort Christian scripture to fit Mormon doctrine and it’s a pointless exercise. If you want to understand what Christians teach about the Bible, take a non-LDS Bible study course or go to a Catholic or generic Christian bookstore and get a good Bible study guide. Nobody is criticizing you for believing in a multitude of gods, or for believing that people can become gods, it’s just not Christianity and no Christian will ever agree with you. Christian and Mormon theology are very far removed, mutually exclusive and irreconcilable. That doesn’t make Mormon beliefs “bad;” it simply means that, like Hinduism or Buddhism, they’re not Christian beliefs.
 
why_me said:
Because we possessed something that he has never possessed. However in Mormon teaching god once had a physical body and so within mormonism it is a mute point. But in catholicism there is a point. God cannot know what it means to have a body unless he has also had a body. That is the point.
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One can also go the other way and say that we cannot truly attain perfection unless we become like God, If we said this we would be told that it is blasphemy, but the Lord has told us to become perfect like our Heavenly Father
 
ronald_g_w said:
460 The Word became flesh to make us “partakers of the divine nature”:“For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God.” “For the Son of God became man so that we might become God.” “The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods.”
posted by Tsuzuki
  • Catechism of the Catholic Church
This helps explain my point
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As was done in the original post, you have left out the reference from the Catechism for this passage; which is 2 Peter 1:4:

“Through these, he has bestowed on us the precious and very great promises, so that through them you may come to share in the divine nature, after escaping from the corruption that is in the world because of evil desire.”

It means share in the divine nature, not become a god. See my post 660.
 
why_me said:
No, because someone has provided scripture where the plurality of gods is mentioned. Nothing more.
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If you really believe that Christian scripture supports the existence of multiple gods, you need to discuss this with all those Priests, Nuns and Opus Dei folks you supposedly hang with and then get back to us. Maybe they’ll agree with you, but I’m kinda thinkin’ not.
 
ronald_g_w said:
Jehovah
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You do know that that word is a hybrid form of the Hebrew name of God, which is Yahweh. (It comes from the YHWH, the Tetragrammaton, and the e-o-a taken from the word Adonai which is a Hebrew word meaning lord, mastor, husband, or god.) It actually was never used as a name for God. Instead it was to warn the reader, for reverence sake, not to pronounce the name of Yahweh, but to say Adonai instead.
 
RC_Matt said:
Dude, the devil is not a god. You are trying to contort Christian scripture to fit Mormon doctrine and it’s a pointless exercise. If you want to understand what Christians teach about the Bible, take a non-LDS Bible study course or go to a Catholic or generic Christian bookstore and get a good Bible study guide. Nobody is criticizing you for believing in a multitude of gods, or for believing that people can become gods, it’s just not Christianity and no Christian will ever agree with you. Christian and Mormon theology are very far removed, mutually exclusive and irreconcilable. That doesn’t make Mormon beliefs “bad;” it simply means that, like Hinduism or Buddhism, they’re not Christian beliefs.
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I have a copy of The Holy Bible in front of me prepared by the Catholic Biblical Association given to me in1969. I just dont get it how come we dont see the same things when we read the same words because they just seem so clear to me and the way you put it seems so complicated ? There is one God, one Faith, One baptism. I supose what it really comes down to is who really has the authority and the keys of the kingdom and the gift of the Holy Ghost. To me there are too many broken links (unrighteous) in the papal chain to have carried or past on the the keys of the kingdom, The question with the gift of the Holy Ghost I just do not see it in the Catholic church and here is one of my reasons Surely you agree that the Pope is called of God and ordained to that calling. Now you have X amount of Cardinals casting their lot / voting this can go on for days until a majority is reached and the Successful candidate is elected. If the Cardinals all had the Gift of the Holy Ghost surely they would all be given the same answer as to the successful candidate, why would the spirit wisper different names to different people, the lots cast should all read the same or am I just doff and havent a clue ?
 
ronald_g_w said:
To me there are too many broken links (unrighteous) in the papal chain to have carried or past on the the keys of the kingdom…or am I just doff and havent a clue ?
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None as unrighteous as Brigham Young. Should we discuss the others? 😃

Response to second comment—You said it, not me. :tiphat:
 
ronald_g_w said:
I have a copy of The Holy Bible in front of me prepared by the Catholic Biblical Association given to me in1969. I just dont get it how come we dont see the same things when we read the same words because they just seem so clear to me and the way you put it seems so complicated ? There is one God, one Faith, One baptism. I supose what it really comes down to is who really has the authority and the keys of the kingdom and the gift of the Holy Ghost. To me there are too many broken links (unrighteous) in the papal chain to have carried or past on the the keys of the kingdom, The question with the gift of the Holy Ghost I just do not see it in the Catholic church and here is one of my reasons Surely you agree that the Pope is called of God and ordained to that calling. Now you have X amount of Cardinals casting their lot / voting this can go on for days until a majority is reached and the Successful candidate is elected. If the Cardinals all had the Gift of the Holy Ghost surely they would all be given the same answer as to the successful candidate, why would the spirit wisper different names to different people, the lots cast should all read the same or am I just doff and havent a clue ?
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I gotta run, so I’m giving you a quick answer here and somebody else may be able to give you a better explanation. The Holy Spirit does not so much select the individual as He guides the process, allowing the Cardinals to follow their own conscience. What He does is prevent the election of a Pope who would introduce error. Even though there have been some less than stellar Popes in history, none of them have ever taught doctrinal error and the deposit of faith has remained intact for 2000 years – just as Jesus promised.

As far as interpretation of the Bible is concerned, I really would recommend you take a non-LDS Bible study class or get a good study guide if you want to understand what Christians believe. That’s better than getting data on an internet board, and you can even consult Jewish sources for Old Testament material.
 
ronald_g_w said:
I have a copy of The Holy Bible in front of me prepared by the Catholic Biblical Association given to me in1969. I just dont get it how come we dont see the same things when we read the same words because they just seem so clear to me and the way you put it seems so complicated ?
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Because you try to understand truth using the wrong definitions.
There is one God, one Faith, One baptism.
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True. But many have broken away from the one Faith.
I supose what it really comes down to is who really has the authority and the keys of the kingdom and the gift of the Holy Ghost. To me there are too many broken links (unrighteous) in the papal chain to have carried or past on the the keys of the kingdom,
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The Pope is not a god, he is human. Humans fail. God has given us the Sacrament of Reconciliation. The Pope uses this Sacrament the same as any other person.

Jesus Christ is the head of the Catholic Church. He is our Prophet, High Priest, and King. It is by Him that we are perfected, and He brings about the perfection of His Church.
The question with the gift of the Holy Ghost I just do not see it in the Catholic church
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That is because you have been trained to believe that Jesus has abandoned His Church.
and here is one of my reasons Surely you agree that the Pope is called of God and ordained to that calling.
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Slight correction. The Pope is the Bishop of Rome. That is the position that he is elected to. The Holy Orders in the Catholic Church are deacon, priest and bishop. If the person who is elected is not already a bishop, they are ordained.
Now you have X amount of Cardinals casting their lot / voting this can go on for days until a majority is reached and the Successful candidate is elected. If the Cardinals all had the Gift of the Holy Ghost surely they would all be given the same answer as to the successful candidate,
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We do not believe the Holy Spirit is controlling people as though we were all Robots Of God.
why would the spirit wisper different names to different people,
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Each person discerns the Will of God. It is a process of prayer and worship. Don’t you think, as the process goes on and a majority has not been reached that this would put each person into a deeper communion with God? More prayer, more worship, more searching ones conscience?
the lots cast should all read the same or am I just doff and havent a clue ?
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You are not understanding the process of discernment. (You have a very secular view.)
 
RC_Matt said:
As far as interpretation of the Bible is concerned, I really would recommend you take a non-LDS Bible study class or get a good study guide if you want to understand what Christians believe.
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Agree. Remember that in 2 Peter 3:16, we are even warned that Sacred Scripture can be very difficult to interpret on our own.
 
why me:
God cannot know what it means to have a body unless he has also had a body. That is the point.
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How can you worship such a weak, ignorant and limited being?

The real God knows everything, because He created everything by the power of His will and His infinite mind.

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
 
PaulDupre said:
How can you worship such a weak, ignorant and limited being?

The real God knows everything, because He created everything by the power of His will and His infinite mind.

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
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It almost brings tears to my eyes to know this is how some people view God Almighty. 😦
 
Tsuzuki said:
As the only member of this rite, the fact that I am personally in communion with the Catholic Church (and go to great lengths to be so) makes the entire rite in communion with her. Same goes for the Mormon side. It may be my own rite, but it’s not my own religion.
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I don’t believe it is you who decides if your one-man rite is in communion with Rome. I recommend you check with the Holy See…let us know how that goes. (I believe you start with your bishop.)
 
Tsuzuki said:
As the only member of this rite, the fact that I am personally in communion with the Catholic Church (and go to great lengths to be so) makes the entire rite in communion with her. Same goes for the Mormon side. It may be my own rite, but it’s not my own religion.
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I dont know how often you have to be told you can not be both. If you are trying to be you have created your own religion. If any priest of the catholic church is telling you differently they are mistaken and leading you in error.

As the Catholic Church does not recognize the baptism or sacraments (ordinances ) of the LDS there is now way to be in communion with both.
 
Tsuzuki said:
It’s me who decides if I will be in communion with Rome, and so far I am succeeding. (Mormon rite Catholic is just a label. I don’t see it as an actual rite. That would be silly.)
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If you hold that the LDS faith is true then you have excommunicated yourself latae sententiae from the Catholic Church.
 
Tsuzuki said:
It’s me who decides if I will be in communion with Rome, and so far I am succeeding. (Mormon rite Catholic is just a label. I don’t see it as an actual rite. That would be silly.)
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It would be kinda cool to hear Mass said in Reformed Egyptian. You wouldn’t even need Missals, everybody could just wear hats.
 
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