LDS or catholicism

[Timothy17]

here you go: scripturecatholic.com/
perhaps the best site around IMO^^^

After viewing this site I also recommend it. It provides for you core Catholic beliefs, and gives you the reasons for those beliefs from i) the Holy Bible (Sacred Scripture), and then confirmed in ii) real history (Sacred Tradition).

The page on Peter is perhaps the best place to start : scripturecatholic.com/primacy_of_peter.html

Pax,
And may God bless and guide you,
Tim

 

[ParkerD]

From what I understand from learning about the Mormon faith you are right…

TracyR,

Rather than persist in your misconceptions and misunderstandings about what Mormons believe, I’ve edited your post so that you can understand (hopefully) what Mormons do believe about the kinds of things you brought up in your post.

(Edited version) "From what I understand from learning about the Mormon faith you are right. They believe that men may become gods, and will go on to heaven living a married life ,and women will become goddesses as long as they follow God and have been desirous of being an “help meet” and thus have helped their husband to follow God also. No one, I mean no one, could ever become a god without the Savior, nor receive a joint throne with Him without His atoning grace.

A far cry from what “mainline Christianity” is, since “It breaks the very first commandment of the Ten Commandments, if one doesn’t believe in the Savior’s intercessory prayer when He prayed that we could become One with Them.” (How could John possibly have believed that Christ would give men a “joint throne” through His grace? Mainline Christians believe such an idea is impossible, or doesn’t mean bearing rule in righteousness, at all–and make that teaching into something else entirely, something more human like becoming angels or like the angels.)"

 

[Timothy17]

TracyR,

Rather than persist in your misconceptions and misunderstandings about what Mormons believe, I’ve edited your post so that you can understand (hopefully) what Mormons do believe about the kinds of things you brought up in your post.

(Edited version) "From what I understand from learning about the Mormon faith you are right. They believe that men may become gods, and will go on to heaven living a married life ,and women will become goddesses as long as they follow God and have been desirous of being an “help meet” and thus have helped their husband to follow God also. No one, I mean no one, could ever become a god without the Savior, nor receive a joint throne with Him without His atoning grace.

A far cry from what “mainline Christianity” is, since “It breaks the very first commandment of the Ten Commandments, if one doesn’t believe in the Savior’s intercessory prayer when He prayed that we could become One with Them.” (How could John possibly have believed that Christ would give men a “joint throne” through His grace? Mainline Christians believe such an idea is impossible, or doesn’t mean bearing rule in righteousness, at all–and make that teaching into something else entirely, something more human like becoming angels or like the angels.)"

As a warning to the OP, Mormons are perhaps the best trained sophists I have ever encountered, which is expedient for that religion as contradictions and heterodoxy fuel, rather than quench, sophistry.

The question is : does the Mormon or Catholic religion have the legitimate authority from God to faithfully interpret for you the Scriptures and command your obedience to their own prescriptions, based on that interpretation ? The Catholic Church centres on the Apostle Peter, and from there down through history arrives at today ; the Mormon, on a man named Joseph Smith (whom they style a prophet).

Pax,
Tim

 

[po18guy]

Catholicboy123,

If you’re going to be baptized based on the opinions of others, then you might as well take a poll from all the friends you know, who know you and know when you are the happiest as you interact with them, and see what the majority say and then do that.

But if you want to be baptized based on your own innermost desires to please God and do His will, then prayer and sincere study of the Bible, with sincere commitment intended as you seek wisdom from Him through the Holy Ghost, will be what the New Testament suggests a person in your position should do.

Remember that baptism is making a covenant with the Lord, Jesus Christ, Who loves you as does our Father in Heaven. When you receive Their approbation, then all the opinions in the world, even by well-meaning people, don’t matter very much at all.

Best wishes to you, and Merry Christmas with joy, love and peace in your heart through the Savior’s atoning grace. (Whatever you do, tell your mom you love her and appreciate her. )

Peace and a joyful, blessed Christmas to all readers.

Amen to that! And, a very merry Christmas to you and yours.

 

[KathleenGee]

Catholic Boy,

Jesus Christ is God. He loves you. When you are baptized into the Catholic Church, you will forever be part of Christ’s mystical Body. Forever.

The Catholic Church does not take God’s place. What the Catholic Church does is nurture and guide you in your walk with Jesus.

Jesus Christ IS God. Jesus Christ, in His power of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost, gave His apostles power to preach and bring Christ HImself in the sacraments to all nations. Jesus gave His apostles the authority to ordain through Holy Orders with the laying on of hands provided to their bishops, priests, and deacons. It is the Holy Spirit Who works through our Holy Ministers, set aside in truth and spirit all down through the ages. Jesus said He would never leave us. Jesus said He would remain with us.

The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is the perpetual and only perfect sacrifice.s Melchizedek in ancient times prophesized the coming of the perpetual sacrifice. The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is where we are united with Jesus every day, atones for our sin.

Christ said He would always remain with us. He remains with us through the Eucharist, through His Word. He remains with us in the Sacraments. All our sacraments are concrete. No arguing or debating. Christ in His sanctifying grace is with us in the Sacraments. Christ said the Kingdom of earth is here Now! When we are baptized in Christ, when we receive and are nurtured by Christ in His sacraments, we are already united with God in the Divine Life. God shares His Divinity with us through Christ in the Holy Spirit. Thus, heaven is already with us, however just a little revealed. When we are with Christ in Heaven, then all of heaven will be revealed and we will see God face to face.

When we receive the Eucharist, we are receiving the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Jesus Christ and when we receive Jesus, He becomes part of us. Again it is through Jesus Christ in the Eucharist that we become partakers of the Divine Life in God…already … here on earth!

Christianity from the Apostles and their successors have always believed in the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity in the Eucharist.

Jesus gave His apostles to forgive sin, the sacrament of penance, that was passed down through the sacrament of Holy Orders.

The Sacrament of Confirmation confirms us in our conviction in Jesus Christ, and gives us strength and power to believe in Him and to live in Him, not to forsake HIm but live in Him until the end of our lives.

The teachings of our catechism are the same as 2,000 years ago. Our Mass is celebrated in many ways as it was done in the Christian world only within 100 years after the death of St. John the Evangelist.

There is nothing secretive or hidden from you or anyone else who wants to learn about the apostolic Catholic church. The Church is totally upfront in teaching its beliefs.

The vast majority of healings done by Christ were blindness. When you have the fullness of Christ in the Word and Eucharist, you can see, you are no longer blind.
Christ is the One who lets us see.

My son has returned to the Church. He told me he could not be anything but Catholic. He will come with me tonight, first time receiving Holy Communion in many years.

I will remember your mother and that the Lord will give her peace of heart and soul. Always love and venerate your mother.

 

[RebeccaJ]

I suppose if you reduce your faith to ideals of moralisms and/or sentimentalism, then you might think there is somehow a chance Catholics or Mormons are on a level playing field. You might as well be anything, as there are many idealisms that meet moral and/or sentimental standard. Including atheism.

However, if you’re seeking to fill the desire that God puts in all our hearts, and is only filled by Him, then why look to what is counterfeit and what only came into existence 150 years or so ago? Where did people look to before Smith made up a church?

We look to Christ, and no other, as people have done for nearly 2000 years.

Faith is a grace, a gift, of the Holy Spirit. It is not generated from ourselves, out of a desire for power, riches, good health or peer and familial acceptance.

Peace.

Rebecca

 

[TracyR]

TracyR,

Rather than persist in your misconceptions and misunderstandings about what Mormons believe, I’ve edited your post so that you can understand (hopefully) what Mormons do believe about the kinds of things you brought up in your post.

(Edited version) "From what I understand from learning about the Mormon faith you are right. They believe that men may become gods, and will go on to heaven living a married life ,and women will become goddesses as long as they follow God and have been desirous of being an “help meet” and thus have helped their husband to follow God also. No one, I mean no one, could ever become a god without the Savior, nor receive a joint throne with Him without His atoning grace.

A far cry from what “mainline Christianity” is, since “It breaks the very first commandment of the Ten Commandments, if one doesn’t believe in the Savior’s intercessory prayer when He prayed that we could become One with Them.” (How could John possibly have believed that Christ would give men a “joint throne” through His grace? Mainline Christians believe such an idea is impossible, or doesn’t mean bearing rule in righteousness, at all–and make that teaching into something else entirely, something more human like becoming angels or like the angels.)"

Interesting as I have watched several videos with testimonies from former Mormons and what I previously mentioned was what they claimed about the Mormon church,.
No one can become a god, or be equal to God in Heaven.
What you claim is very watered down.
sourceflix.com/lifting-the-veil-of-polygamy/
sourceflix.com/the-bible-vs-the-book-of-mormon/

p.s. being a newbie on the board I’ve learned very quickly when the truth is exposed people get very defensive.

 

[po18guy]

p.s. being a newbie on the board I’ve learned very quickly when the truth is exposed people get very defensive.

I have yet to see an LDS refutation of the “holy lies” that can be used to gain converts. Any lie is a sin to Catholics. Who is the liar and father of lies?

As well, the LDS missionaries always begin with the emphasis on seeking God through the Christian bible (no mention yet of the BOM), as well as the emotional aspect (burning in the bosom) rather than using both faith and reason in one’s journey.

 

[Whitacre_Girl]

Basically, my reason for not being mormon (to the utter dismay of my family) boils down to one thing. (there are many things, but this is the biggest thing)

Mormonism teaches that when you die, and you are deemed “worthy” you will become a being equal to God. A god yourself.

I found that teaching in scripture, Genesis.

“And you will be like God…”

the very first lie ever told by the enemy (Satan) to decieve them and lead them into sin. In this case, original sin.

Anyone coming to me telling me that I can become like god, I calmly explain that there is only ONE God, and it is only my most desparate wish to FOLLOW him. And if I hae enough time, I share with them that becoming like God is literally the OLDEST trick in THE Book (Holy Scripture)

 

[ParkerD]

p.s. being a newbie on the board I’ve learned very quickly when the truth is exposed people get very defensive.

TracyR,
I wasn’t feeling defensive–I was trying to explain the LDS beliefs and yet allow it from your frame of reference.

But, hey, Merry Christmas to you and your sweet family. I’ll bet they’re all excited!

 

[Dakota_Roberts]

TracyR,

Rather than persist in your misconceptions and misunderstandings about what Mormons believe, I’ve edited your post so that you can understand (hopefully) what Mormons do believe about the kinds of things you brought up in your post.

(Edited version) "From what I understand from learning about the Mormon faith you are right. They believe that men may become gods, and will go on to heaven living a married life ,and women will become goddesses as long as they follow God and have been desirous of being an “help meet” and thus have helped their husband to follow God also. No one, I mean no one, could ever become a god without the Savior, nor receive a joint throne with Him without His atoning grace.

A far cry from what “mainline Christianity” is, since “It breaks the very first commandment of the Ten Commandments, if one doesn’t believe in the Savior’s intercessory prayer when He prayed that we could become One with Them.” (How could John possibly have believed that Christ would give men a “joint throne” through His grace? Mainline Christians believe such an idea is impossible, or doesn’t mean bearing rule in righteousness, at all–and make that teaching into something else entirely, something more human like becoming angels or like the angels.)"

So Mormonism is polytheist??

 

[ParkerD]

So Mormonism is polytheist??

Hi, Dakota Roberts,

If you re-read Christ’s intercessory prayer (John 17), and particularly focus on the literal meaning of the words in verses 20-23, then taking that context into your question, my answer would be either “yes” or “no” depending on whether you believe that to be “made perfect in one” means that those who are made perfect in one and thus become joint heirs with Christ fall into the definition of “polytheism”. I think “polytheism” usually is understood to mean a belief in more than one god including their not being unified in will and purpose, love for us and love for truth. So that is “not a match”.

But if strictly using the definition “belief in more than one divine Being” (such as Three Separate Persons in the Godhead and the power of Christ to bring people into receiving a joint throne with Him, and becoming unified with Him), then “yes”.

 

[Jerusha]

A humorous warning to latecomers to the Catholic-Mormon debate. Parker is a unique individual. Although he claims to be Mormon, he has been here so long, that he has been drifting towards Catholicism without even realizing it. Treat him with utmost respect, for he would be condemned as a heretic and even an apostate by many of his co-religionists, if his drift were known.

He is an excellent example of the diversity which exists within the LDS faith. Many Mormon apologists here: mormonapologetics.org/forum/11-lds-dialogue-discussion/
would deny some of his most basic claims for the LDS church being tolerant, loving, accepting, and Christ-centered.

Carry on, and treat our dear Parker as a non-traditional Catholic in disguise. We are privileged to have him here-- there are many who are much worse. (They usually end up getting too angry to function in rational debate.)

Have a Holy Christmas. :christmastree1:

http://www.religions-and-spiritualities-guide.com/images/christmas-nativity-scene-1.jpg

 

[KathleenGee]

Jerusha,

Thanks for the card…So beautiful!

Yes, concur with you about Parker…I prayed for him last night at Mass.

 

[ParkerD]

Jerusha,

Thanks for the card…So beautiful!

Yes, concur with you about Parker…I prayed for him last night at Mass.

Kathleen and Jerusha,

Thanks to each of you for your kind thoughts. 'Hoping you’re each having a blessed and wonderful Christmas day, along with all your family members. May His peace be with you always.

 

[Azurestone]

Your best defense from heresies like Mormonism is to have a solid knowledge and understanding of history, both Church and Secular.

Start by studying the Early Church Fathers (ECF), especially anything prior to the 5th Century during the time of the Undivided Church (R. Catholic, E. Orthodox, and Oriental Orthodox not yet separated). (Irenaeus, Clement, Polycarp, Eusebius, etc)

You can start here:
ccel.org/fathers.html

Anytime someone makes a claim (be it RC or LDS), you should look it up yourself. If it’s of the great Apostasy (LDS), look at the faith in the Didache and of the ECF (these men lived near the time of the Apostles. The death of the Apostles wouldn’t have caused a total shift in faith). If someone claims that St Peter wasn’t in Rome (some Protestants) look it up yourself. Also, look at the historical (Undivided Church time period) claims of the heretics. For example, Tertullian (who started with an orthodox faith, but then became a Montanist [early charismatic movement]). In his later works, you can see what the Church believed in the 2d century by how he mocks it.

Don’t trust others to tell you the truth. Find it yourself.

Also, it’s easy to distrust oral tradition, because we have such an abundance of access to books and the internet. However, before books were widely available, this was the method used everywhere. There is historical proof of traditions and stories (in various faiths and cultures) that didn’t change over hundreds of years, yet were taught primarily by word of mouth. When you have hundreds or thousands of people hearing the same thing, if someone changes something, hundreds or thousands of others say “Hey, that’s not right!” The book/netflix “The Case for Christ” by Lee Strobel talks a little about the effectiveness of oral tradition.

 

[JeanMichel]

For the past 6 years I have been practicing catholicism but have not been baptized due to my mom being LDS. I can now get baptized but have been researching the LDS church. Please give me your thoughts and prayers. Thank you all answers.

I think others have indicated that Catholics will proclaim their truth and Mormons will proclaim their’s, but the objective of all humanity is to fulfill God’s will for them. Christ turned to Peter and asked him who he thought Jesus was. Peter responded that Jesus was the Son of God. Jesus replied that Peter was blessed by man had not told him, but his Father in Heaven.

I know of no greater advice than to seek God out in prayer and supplication. Study the Bible and the writings of those that inspire you. Reading the lives of the Early Church Fathers and others that have lead a pious life will also help you understand the beauty of following Jesus.

I believe that God has an objective for each of us. Find his will for you and follow. Ignore all the comments of others about the beliefs, shortcomings, strengths of churches. Just follow Christ and his will for you. He will guide you to His church for you. Continue to study, pray, and learn to rejoice in Christ through all tribulations and trials. Put your faith in God and not in the arm of flesh; that of others and even your won. Follow the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

Know that there will be trials along the way and many will condemn your choice whatever it will be. Take joy in knowing that you follow the Spirit. Find Peace, hold to it, and never let it go.

Merry Christmas,

 

[KathleenGee]

JeanMichael…

Check out the new post on RevKevin’s "Nativity Scene’ by Telmab…hope I didn’t do too much damage to his name…very profound and his post has the Lord calling out to us from it…

 

[PJM]

=catholicboy123;7394645]For the past 6 years I have been practicing catholicism but have not been baptized due to my mom being LDS. I can now get baptized but have been researching the LDS church. Please give me your thoughts and prayers. Thank you all answers.

Allow me dear friend in Christ to bring into actual and factual focus for you the choice you face.

*Catholism is [the first, orginal and only true Cristian Faith

LDS is a CULT not part of anyones Christian religion

Catholism hold the following as TRUE:

1.One God [Triune in nature]

1. Belief in heaven, hell and Purgatory
2. The Seven Sacraments including Euchrist [Jesus Himself in Person] and Reconcillation the Sacrament of KNOWN forgivenss of ones sins [available only in the Catholic community of churches
3. 2,000 years of Faithful and Faith-filled contineous and constant Teaching a Tradition [we have now our 265th. consecutive Pope] FOUNDED BY JESUS HIMSELF!
4. The CC gave the WORLD the Bible…
   The OT was collected by the CC and the NT was entirely written by the CC

There MUCH more but let’s just compare these

Point 1. They do NOT accept the Trinity, nor do they accept Jesus as God

Point 2. They do NOT accept the ideas of heaven, hell or purgatory

Point 3. They reject the idea of the Sacraments and also of Grace

Point 4. The LDS church is 1. man-made; founded by osepth Smith in 1847 and 2. is ONLY about 150 YEARS OLD!

Point 5: They DO NOT ACCEPT the bible except to critiaze the Christian faiths: There version is called the “Book of Mormon” NOT inspired by God and written by mr Smith and a few associates.

There is a GREAT deal more; beganing with the singular issue of TRUTH. wde have it; they don’t. [And make there own versions of it].

I hope my friend that this helps clarify your decision. Everything in this post is verifiable.

God’s continued Bleesngs,
PM me if yu hve other questions or concerns.

Pat

PJM**

 

[ParkerD]

…
Point 1. They do NOT accept the Trinity, nor do they accept Jesus as God

PJM,

You have not understood whatever you have read. LDS certainly accept Jesus as God, and believe in God the Father, God the Son, and the Holy Ghost as the Godhead, described amply in the New Testament.

Point 2. They do NOT accept the ideas of heaven, hell or purgatory

Not as defined by your church, but yes as defined by the New Testament. (Purgatory is not a New Testament term.)

Point 3. They reject the idea of the Sacraments

Not as defined by your church.

and also of Grace

LDS certainly do believe and teach grace through the atonement and love of Christ, but definitely in a different way than in your church. They also believe in the literal truth of the Bible, far more literally than the post you wrote took note of. They are lovers of the Bible as the word of God, and study it for gaining its many wonderful truths and messages of a loving Father in Heaven and of the Savior, Jesus Christ, as well as the testimonies and teachings of prophets and apostles of old.

Everything in this post is verifiable.

That is a key thing for someone to do, and can be done quite readily, to figure out which items were incorrect and which items were correctly presented.