LDS Position on Abortion

[Enodios]

We always treat these things as absolutes, that is wrong. Until you have walked in their shoes, you must reserve judgement towards these women.

 

[PaulDupre]

How about the fact that a mother is more likely to die during child birth than during an abortion?

It may sound cynical, but it is always in the mothers “best interest of health” to have an abortion.

Yes, that does sound terribly cynical. It is also incorrect. There have been many links posted on this forum that deal with the physical and emotional trauma that abortion causes.

Here’s one

God bless,
Paul

 

[zerinus]

No one could ever suffer such a high state of emotional harm to warrant killing the unborn.
And how do you know 100% that the woman wouldn’t experience this emotional harm if she went ahead with the birth?
It is just a guess going by her current mental state during the first few weeks of pregnancy, and her outlook.
But no one can know for sure whether the woman is going to suffer incredible emotional harm after the birth if for say the conception was due to incest.
Who knows, maybe the sight of the baby she has carried for 9 months will brighten her up and be a boost to her life.
Also don’t forget that as Catholics and Mormons, we both believe God is with us at all times to heal our emotional wounds.
So the woman can always pray more to receive the strength she needs after the birth to live a full life free of emotional harm

So why don’t you let the woman make her own decisions rather than you telling her what to do? Don’t you think she is a better judge of how emotionally distressed she is and will be, with the help of her counsellers and medical psychological advisors?

zerinus

 

[kellie]

So why don’t you let the woman make her own decisions rather than you telling her what to do? Don’t you think she is a better judge of how emotionally distressed she is and will be, with the help of her counsellers and medical psychological advisors?

zerinus

Faced with an unwanted pregnancy because of rape or incest, I would find it very hard to concentrate on staying healthy for baby and me, and go through counselling, and come out knowing how I would feel after the birth towards the baby.

(My husband left me when I was 8 weeks pregnant with our son, for another woman , the pregnancy was a huge mixture of emotions)

Many women have said they were grateful they never aborted their baby, as it completely changed them once it was born.

Maybe that is why it is best left to God to rule on this decision, He is the wisest.
And He says not to kill.

 

[Sixtus]

What is your take if the woman is raped and she gets impregnated?

What is your take if the mother is carrying a child with 7-heads and 10-horns?

In reality of course, the likelihood is pretty remote. The vast majority of abortions [99.9%] we are told, are because it is not convenient to the mother or father. More likely, the mother is pressurised by the father of the unborn child.

Let me ask you the same question. Imagine you had been the product of a rape. Tragic that this would be, would you rather not have been born?

 

[Eden]

So why don’t you let the woman make her own decisions rather than you telling her what to do? Don’t you think she is a better judge of how emotionally distressed she is and will be, with the help of her counsellers and medical psychological advisors?

zerinus

Do you make the best decisions when you are emotionally distressed? We all need a moral guide to help us through times when we may not be thinking straight and that is why Catholics who live what the Church teaches, even in times of stress, can be certain that they will not make immoral decisions. Abortion is murder regardless of the emotional state of the mother requesting the procedure. The immorality of the act of getting an abortion exists outside the individual reasons someone may give for doing it. With your logic, we should not attempt to talk a suicidal person down from a window ledge because they are the better judge of how emotionally distressed they are and what they need to do to remedy it.

 

[st_lucy]

Yes, that does sound terribly cynical. It is also incorrect. There have been many links posted on this forum that deal with the physical and emotional trauma that abortion causes.

Here’s one

God bless,
Paul

Not to mention that a women who has an abortion has a high risk of developing breast cancer. I am sorry if you look at the big picture and not at the here and now abortion is never better for the mother.

 

[st_lucy]

We always treat these things as absolutes, that is wrong. Until you have walked in their shoes, you must reserve judgement towards these women.

I agree that it is always wrong to judge the mother, it is never okay for a sinner to judge another sinner. But I truly believe that the mother is not ever given the whole picture. If we sit back and tell her that I have not idea what you are going through so there for go head and have the abortion. Is wrong and even a sin on our part. If we educate the mother and the world at that matter what abortion is we could help her see that abortion is not a choice but murder, of her own children.

 

[Valke2]

I don’t see how you can say it is immoral to believe that when the fetus threatens the life of an already born person, that the already born person’s life should take precedence. I can see how you would disagree with it. But to view such a stance as immoral makes no sense to me.

 

[st_lucy]

I don’t see how you can say it is immoral to believe that when the fetus threatens the life of an already born person, that the already born person’s life should take precedence. I can see how you would disagree with it. But to view such a stance as immoral makes no sense to me.

You see you are making it sound that only the person you can see is important. Both are important. Also it is not murder to take actions to protect one patent without the intention to kill the other. I am not very good at explaining this but I am sure if you do a search on this you get a better explanation.

 

[Karin]

I don’t see how you can say it is immoral to believe that when the fetus threatens the life of an already born person, that the already born person’s life should take precedence. I can see how you would disagree with it. But to view such a stance as immoral makes no sense to me.

Murder is immoral Valke2…Catholics view aboriton as murder.
We have gone over this on that other thread (jews valuing life…or somethign similar)…
I do understand that the Jewish people do not view this as murder (abortion) until a certain point during birth…so dont take what I have written as directed towards you.

 

[Karin]

You see you are making it sound that only the person you can see is important. Both are important. Also it is not murder to take actions to protect one patent without the intention to kill the other. I am not very good at explaining this but I am sure if you do a search on this you get a better explanation.

lets not confuse Valke2…It is murder to remove a fetus (direct abortion) with the sole purpose of ending that life.
As to indirect abortions (which is what St. lucy is talking about …has been gone over …on this thread and others.

 

[Eden]

I don’t see how you can say it is immoral to believe that when the fetus threatens the life of an already born person, that the already born person’s life should take precedence. I can see how you would disagree with it. But to view such a stance as immoral makes no sense to me.

Threatens the mother’s life in what way? That’s a slippery slope that you are talking about. If you look at some of the examples of a mother’s life “at risk”, they include the woman being depressed about being pregnant. How easily that excuse can be applied by any woman who does not want her baby.
Jewish law and Abortion:

"Judaism recognizes psychiatric as well as physical factors in evaluating the potential threat that the fetus poses to the mother. However, the danger posed by the fetus (whether physical or emotional) must be both probable and substantial to justify abortion.9** The degree of mental illness that must be present to justify termination of a pregnancy has been widely debated by rabbinic scholars,10 without a clear consensus of opinion regarding the exact criteria for permitting abortion in such instances**.11 Nevertheless, all agree that were a pregnancy to causes a woman to become truly suicidal, there would be grounds for abortion.12 However, several modern rabbinical experts ruled that since pregnancy-induced and post-partum depressions are treatable, abortion is not warranted.13 "

According to Jewish law, there is no measurable criteria for what constitutes a threat to the mother’s life. It is all left up to the opinion of the players involved. That’s hardly a coherent teaching.
Jewish law and Abortion:

“While most poskim forbid abortion for “defective” fetuses, Rabbi Eliezar Yehuda Waldenberg is a notable exception. Rabbi Waldenberg allows first trimester abortion of a fetus that would be born with a deformity that would cause it to suffer, and termination of a fetus with a lethal fetal defect such as Tay Sachs up to the seventh month of gestation.14 The rabbinic experts also discuss the permissibility of abortion for mothers with German measles and babies with prenatal confirmed Down syndrome.”

So, the decision is left up to individual Rabbis as to who can live and who is not fit to live? Sounds like Hitler. Chilling. So, apparently some rabbis will even allow for the killing of unborn children with Down Syndrome. How is that a threat to the mother’s life? Slippery slope here. Very slippery slope. I would expect after what the Jews went through in the middle of the 20th century, their Rabbis would know better.

aish.com/societyWork/sciencenature/Abortion_in_Jewish_Law.asp

 

[perez639]

It really comes down to the science of it all, If you dont believe that a “fetus” is a person ur right the mother should never lose her life to this “fetus.”

Yet, technology these days provide amazing images of what that “fetus” looks like in the first trimester even!! Looking at these images one cannot deny that the “fetus” is in fact a person.

They are the voiceless ones that need to be defended.

Peace Be with you all,

Regis University Student

 

[Karin]

**It really comes down to the science of it all, If you dont believe that a “fetus” is a person ur right the mother should never lose her life to this “fetus.” **

Yet, technology these days provide amazing images of what that “fetus” looks like in the first trimester even!! **Looking at these images one cannot deny that the “fetus” is in fact a person. **

They are the voiceless ones that need to be defended.

Peace Be with you all,

Regis University Student

BINGO!!!

 

[Valke2]

You see you are making it sound that only the person you can see is important. Both are important. Also it is not murder to take actions to protect one patent without the intention to kill the other. I am not very good at explaining this but I am sure if you do a search on this you get a better explanation.

Both are important, yes. You mean like removing the Uterus in a atopic pregnancy instead of just aborting the fetus?

 

[Karin]

Both are important, yes. You mean like removing the Uterus in a atopic pregnancy instead of just aborting the fetus?

you dont remove the uterus in an ectopic pregnancy…that is OVER KILL (no pun intended)

 

[Eden]

BINGO!!!

Valke, how soon after conception were you alive?

 

[Valke2]

Threatens the mother’s life in what way? That’s a slippery slope that you are talking about. If you look at some of the examples of a mother’s life “at risk”, they include the woman being depressed about being pregnant. How easily that excuse can be applied by any woman who does not want her baby.

According to Jewish law, there is no measurable criteria for what constitutes a threat to the mother’s life. It is all left up to the opinion of the players involved. That’s hardly a coherent teaching.

So, the decision is left up to individual Rabbis as to who can live and who is not fit to live? Sounds like Hitler. Chilling. So, apparently some rabbis will even allow for the killing of unborn children with Down Syndrome. How is that a threat to the mother’s life? Slippery slope here. Very slippery slope. I would expect after what the Jews went through in the middle of the 20th century, their Rabbis would know better.

aish.com/societyWork/sciencenature/Abortion_in_Jewish_Law.asp

The rabbis are consulted for a legal opinon, yes. That sounds like Hitler to you? Most of the weight of Jewish authority does not justify abortion for birth defects, as you well know, since it is stated on the website you quoted from.

 

[Valke2]

Valke, how soon after conception were you alive?

That’s not the question. The question is, how soon after conception were my rights to life equal to my mother’s? The answer is, at birth. Before then, if I posed a direct threat to my mother’s life, an abortion would be required.

If your birth would result in your mother’s death, what would you choose?