LDS Question - How did the first church fail?

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Well I am finding out with all the different people coming in here, and I am relatively new, that the same Mormons hear the same Catholic teachings from different people all the time and it goes around…and around. What is the point? I thnk the Mormon church is obsessed with the Catholic church because of its stature and theology.

I don’t think much of theology. Just go to Mass and take it in and go on about my life. I don’t think I absorb much until I hear otherwise…I mean really different takes on things held true and sacred…

I was told by a Catholic man that it is very hard for Mormons to leave with the kind of soul ties they have with their relations…Jesus called us to be free…

I am assisting in RCIA, hear my pastor talk always on the Apostolic line, history and so on, and everything he says jives with reality, with the human condition, and how in the end, all of us have to hold up our own end in seeking the truth and being faithful.

We have to think, we have to constantly reevaluate ourselves and compare to a higher standard found in Christ and the commandments.

They have a different construct on objective truth and history. So I am winding down and refer people to that mission in Utah…some of them have been where the Mormons are…they teach in a multi. dimensional way…liturgical, history, sacraments, authority…

The earlyl Christians suffered so much and endured so much in the first 300 years of Christianity…and I find it incredible the Mormons said the true Church ceased after this.

So the people who were living at the end of persecution and became free in this church they stayed with, now had no faith legacy to pass on to their children…

No matter what, the Mormons will reject everything we share. And it is beyond me or anybody to teach them anything unless the Holy Spirit is working through the Mormon…and that would be most painful but freeing.

I wondered if you had been a Mormon at one time…just wondering…anyway, keep facing the Lord and your relationship will continue into eternity…Have no fear. Let the spiritworld be where it is…an illusion.

Merry Christmas!
 
KathleenGee said:
Well I am finding out with all the different people coming in here, and I am relatively new, that the same Mormons hear the same Catholic teachings from different people all the time and it goes around…and around. What is the point? I thnk the Mormon church is obsessed with the Catholic church because of its stature and theology.

I don’t think much of theology. Just go to Mass and take it in and go on about my life. I don’t think I absorb much until I hear otherwise…I mean really different takes on things held true and sacred…

I was told by a Catholic man that it is very hard for Mormons to leave with the kind of soul ties they have with their relations…Jesus called us to be free…

I am assisting in RCIA, hear my pastor talk always on the Apostolic line, history and so on, and everything he says jives with reality, with the human condition, and how in the end, all of us have to hold up our own end in seeking the truth and being faithful.

We have to think, we have to constantly reevaluate ourselves and compare to a higher standard found in Christ and the commandments.

They have a different construct on objective truth and history. So I am winding down and refer people to that mission in Utah…some of them have been where the Mormons are…they teach in a multi. dimensional way…liturgical, history, sacraments, authority…

The earlyl Christians suffered so much and endured so much in the first 300 years of Christianity…and I find it incredible the Mormons said the true Church ceased after this.

So the people who were living at the end of persecution and became free in this church they stayed with, now had no faith legacy to pass on to their children…

No matter what, the Mormons will reject everything we share. And it is beyond me or anybody to teach them anything unless the Holy Spirit is working through the Mormon…and that would be most painful but freeing.

I wondered if you had been a Mormon at one time…just wondering…anyway, keep facing the Lord and your relationship will continue into eternity…Have no fear. Let the spiritworld be where it is…an illusion.

Merry Christmas!
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No. I have never been a Mormon. I don’t have family that is Mormon. I just have a real heart for them. I have a heart for them because of their 60,000 missionaries out there witnessing their lie. Most of these missionaries are born to the lie and they go out to trick people who might have an honest desire to get close to God. Once they are in, either way, it is hard for them to get out without feeling rejected by friends and family. Because of their insistence of being called Christian, a person who leaves the Mormon church also could feel rejected by Christ. That is the trap and another lie. I think there will be die hard Mormons who will always reject Christ’s message of truth because they have lived in the lie for so long, They have started to view the faults in their church, faults in their prophet, faults in their scripture as faith-testing moments. And to be quite honest, it does take faith to believe that JS saw God, when the Bible clearly teaches no man has seen God, except Jesus. So you have to have a tremendous faith to believe even God has rejected his own truth to appear before JS. I’m afraid I have a minuscule faith to simply believe God’s truth is constant.
 
Thanks for clarifying…

I just read on another post…that the Apostles did fail…

The whole and initial construct of Mormonism is that indirect reference to the Church as the great abomination and the believers…corrupt.

Take away Christianity…Catholic/Orthodox and Protestantism…Mormonism does not have anything to stand on.

I don’t mean to mistreat them. It is their ideas and it also causes people to negatively react to their creeds.
 
Thanks, new to forums…assumed the clip was a message to me…

I was pretty much alone Christmas Eve and Day as I was on call for work and my family went out of state…reached out to some people here and it was a real blessing…
 
KathleenGee said:
Thanks, new to forums…assumed the clip was a message to me…

I was pretty much alone Christmas Eve and Day as I was on call for work and my family went out of state…reached out to some people here and it was a real blessing…
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🙂 I hope you are having a blessed Christmas!
 
Yes I am, but like alot, work has been hard coming…

I am going to get back to my liturgical history book, Joseph Foley, ‘Age to Age’, given to me by the person heading liturgy in the Archdiocese…I just wanted something basic.

It said that the early Jewish Christian liturgies was spoken lyrically…I did not know the Jews who followed Jesus continued in their Jewish synagogues…

I like liturgy because I heard by my sacramental prep instructor that studying theology prayerfully is the first degree of theology, followed by studying it intellectually. Dr Scott Hahn said recently on Mike Aquilina’s show,…that gets into our roots…that the Jewish people revolved around liturgy…but we Westerners end up studying liturgy last. I had more pastoral ministry training than intellectual…to serve more basic people.

Have a Happy New Year…and beginning the year with our Mother Mary!
 
Xavierlives,

As you know, Mormons have been changing their ideas…

I just got a post #357 on ‘Mormon Apostasy and Restoration’…that shows their beliefs now.

May be Mormons are now in process of being restored to Christianity…a great answer to prayer of many people for many years.
 
KathleenGee said:
May be Mormons are now in process of being restored to Christianity…a great answer to prayer of many people for many years.
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Most former mormons that I know of (and I am a former mormon) tend to become either agnositc, atheistic, or go for something like UU’s.

They tend not to go for organized religion if they head towards religion at all…

The scrutinized the Bible has they have the BoM and find it lacking in their view.

There are, however, exceptions, of course. I was agnostic for many years myself.

The mormon mindset, and way of thinking is not an easy to unravel.

It’s only ONLY by God’s grace that I became Catholic.

Only divine intervention could help me undo what Mormonism had done.
 
Yes, Marie, I saw that on former Mormon sites…they had been so damaged, people of reason…same with those who came out of super traditionalist mindsets or extreme fundamentalists.

I basically got through the post given here on the Mormon beliefs of today…it was strange to read the reference that their priests today can be seen in business suits and briefcases…and America the source of the true church of Mormonism for religion, when America has the most fractured Christianity anywhere.

Some of the present teachings of Mormonism resonated with me as a Catholic…I also noted how they don’t say priests or theologians…but ‘professors’ leading people astray in the early church of the Apostles, so we are not defined as harshly as before…there are differences on the nature of God, and definitely a concocted story about the Church…there is no historical or anthropological proof that the Jews came here, but there are Mormons believe that story, and on the other hand, refuse to look at all the documented history of the Catholic church. Their story I believe comes from principalities and powers and experienced a spiritual oppression this past week being pulled into aggressive arguments about Mormonism.

You remind me of P. John Paul’s way of dealing with those outside the church…that our soul is comprised of truth and love…it hungers for the truth…plant a seed of truth and let it work its way down into the soul…he is also referring to the model of evangelizing others…Christ in the walk of Emmaus…our hearts were burning within…again this image of Christ, His life and truth entering into the two companions that resulted in a taste of the new life of His kingdom…a different take here on the burning in the heart as the tool to discern whether one is having a true inspiration of the Holy Spirit or not.

(I also noted that priest is exclusive for men…when priesthood for us represents holiness…women in Christianity also serve in the mission of priesthood when we extend the holiness of Christ to others around us…not exclusively male…)

You are an answer to pray and hope that someday we will all be reunited as one common faith, one Body with one Shepherd.

Maranatha, Come, Lord Jesus, Come!

You have a great receptacle for truth…and are a living answer to prayer.
 
KathleenGee said:
Yes I am, but like alot, work has been hard coming…

I am going to get back to my liturgical history book, Joseph Foley, ‘Age to Age’, given to me by the person heading liturgy in the Archdiocese…I just wanted something basic.
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Edward Foley? This book?..

amazon.com/Age-Christians-Celebrated-Eucharist-Expanded/dp/0814630782/ref=ntt_at_ep_dpi_1
It said that the early Jewish Christian liturgies was spoken lyrically…I did not know the Jews who followed Jesus continued in their Jewish synagogues…
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I like liturgy because I heard by my sacramental prep instructor that studying theology prayerfully is the first degree of theology, followed by studying it intellectually. Dr Scott Hahn said recently on Mike Aquilina’s show,…that gets into our roots…that the Jewish people revolved around liturgy…but we Westerners end up studying liturgy last. I had more pastoral ministry training than intellectual…to serve more basic people.
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Liturgy is where most people begin…by going to Mass. 🙂 The ever unfolding Mystery, to be learned for a lifetime.
Have a Happy New Year…and beginning the year with our Mother Mary!
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You as well. 🙂
 
Marie5890 said:
Most former mormons that I know of (and I am a former mormon) tend to become either agnositc, atheistic, or go for something like UU’s.
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lol. I did all the above.
The mormon mindset, and way of thinking is not an easy to unravel.
Click to expand...
It’s only ONLY by God’s grace that I became Catholic.
Click to expand...
Only divine intervention could help me undo what Mormonism had done.
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I agree 100%!!
 
Marie5890 said:
Most former mormons that I know of (and I am a former mormon) tend to become either agnositc, atheistic, or go for something like UU’s.

They tend not to go for organized religion if they head towards religion at all…

The scrutinized the Bible has they have the BoM and find it lacking in their view.

There are, however, exceptions, of course. I was agnostic for many years myself.

The mormon mindset, and way of thinking is not an easy to unravel.

It’s only ONLY by God’s grace that I became Catholic.

Only divine intervention could help me undo what Mormonism had done.
Click to expand...
The mormon mindset is centered inside their faith which seems to have an answer to most questions. Mormonism as a faith is very complete and full circle. If a mormon leaves the faith, it is difficult to find something to match it. For them, most churches fall short with the answers. Thus, they head for the UU or become agnostic because they tend to be the most open minded when it comes to answers.
 
why_me said:
The mormon mindset is centered inside their faith which seems to have an answer to most questions. Mormonism as a faith is very complete and full circle. If a mormon leaves the faith, it is difficult to find something to match it. For them, most churches fall short with the answers. Thus, they head for the UU or become agnostic because they tend to be the most open minded when it comes to answers.
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Completely disagree with your comment that

“If a mormon leaves the faith, it is difficult to find something to match it. For them, most churches fall short with the answers.”

Go to exmormon.org at tell them that.

You will get jumped on as they tell you that after they scrutinized Mormonism, the scrutinized Christianity as a whole.

Many there will tell you they find both wanting.

Im not sure how exposed you have been to former mormons. How much you have followed their stories.

The run the spectrum but never once have I have heard any of them declare

“If a mormon leaves the faith, it is difficult to find something to match it. For them, most churches fall short with the answers.”

That, IMO, is nothing more than you projecting onto them what they are thinking and feeling, what their experiences have been.

Where you came up with that is well beyond me.
 
Rebecca…

I used to be so sharp…you brought up the correct book…Edward Foley…I saw that last night when starting it…

Yes, you have the right source. And reflecting how it is impossible for any one person or group of scholars to explain our church history…too vast…

He starts out with criticisms of liturgical historians … 'studying the development of our worship through the ages also enables us to admit the tremendous pluriformity that has marked Christian liturgy from the very beginning…Recall that Christianity spread out from the Apostles into the ancient world in many directions…many peoples and cultures…and the great imperative to share the Good News of Jesus Christ drawn from His oral tradition…and upholding the sacredness of His Body and Blood…and the other sacraments, both of initiation, and the sacraments of life.

I emphasize here liturgy because how we believe, we pray…and the first degree of theology is studying our faith through prayer…

I share this because I want people to know that for us the restoration of the Word of God, of His people was renewed with the life of Jesus.

The author writes this book from the perspective of people’s experience!..the tangible aspects of liturgy…not theology or liturgical commentaries, but the book focuses on the primary symbols of worship itself…Every age, the people had a concrete experience of worship…and Catholicism has always held on to the concrete…our creed, our sacraments, our hierarchy.

Fr Foley draws on of music, vessels, books and buildings that affected them endure. So this book limits its study to these points, and as the 'Eucharist has traditionally been at the heart of Christian worship, these symbols are considered as they were used at the Eucharist, particularly as it developed in the West.
 
So to insert understanding that the Church always was, that to study one’s faith spiritually through prayer to find creed, truth, worship…'this approach allows us to consider seriously the liturgy as a source of belief and theology. Note, a source … of many. This is the difficulty in responding to those who hold that the Church cannot be traced back to the Apostles, and of which I am no scholar to do so.

‘The Christian churches today acknowledge the ancient teaching that worship is the source and embodiment of our common belief. At the same time, worship has the power to shape and embodiment of our common belief. At the same time, worship has the power to shape and change our belief. More than any official proclamation or systematic treatise, the liturgy announces who we are and who we are to become in Christ. Liturgy, therefore, is the bedrock upon which we build our theologies of God, church, and salvation. Discovering how these beliefs were embodied and perpetuated by liturgies of the past can help us to look critically at contemporary worship and discover how liturgy is expressing and shaping our faith today.’

So the author himself defines his own parameter to explain to us liturgy…there are really countless others to explain liturgy and its essence and purpose, down through the ages. I love the liturgy because it is so wholistic, we having the Liturgy of the Word that then flows into the Liturgy of the Eucharist.

I took a number of pastoral theology classes for over 5 years, but when I came to liturgy, it was the best for me…and a prayerful and believing (credo) source in the continuity of the apostolic succession…I love to express faith in liturgy…

This book is for beginners…you may go to a seminary or another diocese and they may refer a different text…but I assume this one is the most popular in appeal.
 
KathleenGee said:
Rebecca…

I used to be so sharp…you brought up the correct book…Edward Foley…I saw that last night when starting it…
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It’s alright, I just wanted to find the right book because it sounds like an interesting read. 🙂 I added it to my list.
Yes, you have the right source. And reflecting how it is impossible for any one person or group of scholars to explain our church history…too vast…
Click to expand...
Overwhelming even.
He starts out with criticisms of liturgical historians … 'studying the development of our worship through the ages also enables us to admit the tremendous pluriformity that has marked Christian liturgy from the very beginning…Recall that Christianity spread out from the Apostles into the ancient world in many directions…many peoples and cultures…and the great imperative to share the Good News of Jesus Christ drawn from His oral tradition…and upholding the sacredness of His Body and Blood…and the other sacraments, both of initiation, and the sacraments of life.
Click to expand...
I emphasize here liturgy because how we believe, we pray…and the first degree of theology is studying our faith through prayer…
Click to expand...
Most certainly. The liturgy is the teacher of Who God Is.
I share this because I want people to know that for us the restoration of the Word of God, of His people was renewed with the life of Jesus.
Click to expand...
The author writes this book from the perspective of people’s experience!..the tangible aspects of liturgy…not theology or liturgical commentaries, but the book focuses on the primary symbols of worship itself…Every age, the people had a concrete experience of worship…and Catholicism has always held on to the concrete…our creed, our sacraments, our hierarchy.
Click to expand...
Yes, I was attracted to this before I was baptized. It is not an ethereal could’ve, might’ve, it is very real.
Fr Foley draws on of music, vessels, books and buildings that affected them endure. So this book limits its study to these points, and as the 'Eucharist has traditionally been at the heart of Christian worship, these symbols are considered as they were used at the Eucharist, particularly as it developed in the West.
Click to expand...
I definitely want to read it. Thanks for pointing it out.
 
why_me said:
The mormon mindset is centered inside their faith which seems to have an answer to most questions. Mormonism as a faith is very complete and full circle. If a mormon leaves the faith, it is difficult to find something to match it. For them, most churches fall short with the answers. Thus, they head for the UU or become agnostic because they tend to be the most open minded when it comes to answers.
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why me, most people I know who have left, or are in the process of leaving mormonism, the struggle is trust. Having been taught that your feelings are the barometer of Truth, and discovering your feelings led you so incredibly far into falsehoods…you no longer trust your own feelings. And, you don’t trust organized religions because you don’t want to fall for such a bag of lies again, not as long as you live. Trust, is the hardest issue. Atheism, universalism, agnosticism, they are attractive at this point. Believe nothing, or believe everything is flatly “maybe true”, it seems like a middle road. Like the most reasonable and rational route. But a happy go lucky guy like yourself already knows this.

I see similar issues from the former Jehovah Witnesses who post here.
 
Hi Rebecca,

I lost track of your post…I also put remarks from fr. Foley’s text in the Mormon Restoration thread…a little clearer this time…trying to make it brief but to the point.

Yes you have gone on a great faith journey, and I personally want to welcome you so deeply into our communion…God bless you and I pray you help others like you find peace and practice that is free and centered on Christ Our Lord.

Happy New Year!
 
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