Nowhere in that biased article does it say 99%
Fat,
In another post you say that you are not trying to convince anyone to change their mind. I find that statement suspect. You believe that people lie and when you are directed to things that are not true you offer no support for what you believe and interpret that as an attack. It is difficult to be in your position because to admit that you have been lied to as all Mormons that leave the LDS finally do…it is like taking the rug out from under your feet. That cannot be pleasant.
No one wants to destroy the mormon church. It is doing that by professing things that are not true. Have you not read of all the untruths and lies that LDS has through the ages. I posted them before. Would you like to see them again?
I was responding to something another poster had said. But, yes, it seems from what you and other LDS posters have said, God is limited in his power. Gods creations are not “perfect” but he saw that his creations are good and he is pleased with what he has created. We are not perfect, and we have free will to choose good as well as the same free will to choose evil.
Fat,
is this fact or fiction Fat…?
You don’t move mountains with knowledge. Where did the mountain come from that you desire to move?
You know what is funny, I have provided you with ample information. If you can not read it yourself and find your own answers, I can not help you. Saying i have not answer the question when I have repeadedly is getting really boring. You have never answered any my questions and I have answered yours everytime. I will not respond to you until you answer my questions
What does it say?
I have provided proof there was an apostasy. If you don’t want to believe it that is fine. I certainly did not come here to prove to you that you were wrong, but only try to correct misinformation about our beliefs, and to learn from you guys. I have learned a lot believe me. Some things are still confusing and I am trying to piece your belief together to help me understand why you believe it. It is not logical to me but I was raised in a different culture, and a different train of thought. It may seem logic to you. It may seem alright to accept teachings that are not found in the Bible or in any canon of Scripture. That is okay because I believe there is more scripture than what is in the Bible or the Book of Mormon, Doctrine and Covenants or the Pearl of Great Price. I believe in all of God’s words. But it has to come from his prophets of God, not those who were of the lower callings than prophets. Not from trying to interpret what is in God’s words. You accept it. I don’t.Fat,
Non-belief in the Eucharist is another area where the LDS has no proof, and not only no proof, but stubbornly ignores the documented history of the Church, just as there was no great apostasy. This is simply a fablea fictitious narrative or statement)
2 Timothy 4
3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.
So you believe in Jesus words on baptism being needed for salvation but disbelieve his words on the Eucharist. You thus believe Christ taught in error or all 12 disciples heard him in error as the believe in the real presence in the Eucharist was believed through out the church, wherever the apostles went to preach the gospel. There was no belief in a symbolic Eucharist. The “great crowds” left him and Jesus never corrected them, nor his apostles.
So do you believe the great apostasy occured with Christ still on earth?
Tract to read… catholic.com/tracts/christ-in-the-eucharist
**Fat, do you remember Ronald Reagan? You struggle with God being eternal, and being everywhere at once. Reagan says it better than me.
m.youtube.com/watch?v=t3GnWTy8Ebg**
People here have told me that even though some of the Popes have been known to lie, cheat, murder, commit adultery, etc. that did not take away from the churches authority at all because there were enough bishops and cardinals to smooth things over with God and keep the line of authority intact. Does this make sense? And yet we believe there was a restoration and that it was brought about by a imperfect man who has been accused of all sorts of weaknesses. Some say this is proof the restoration never took place. Yet it is still here and is the fastest growing convert church in the world. And so when those here who have brought up such petty things and make them into something they are not, just makes me ponder if those who attack really cannot see what they are doing, and the hypocrisy that happens here.LOL, ok, it’s your story, you tell it any way you want.
Sorry, ain’t gonna happen.
I am being intellectually dishonest??? What more do you want? You want to trip me up on each and every word I say?? Grow up… You sound like a certain group in the New Testiment that tried to trip Christ up in his own words. I am not certainly perfect. I am not going to respond to you any more.LOL, ok, it’s your story, you tell it any way you want.
You say you have “studied” this, but evidently, none of it has sunk in.
You made a statement about celibate priests being a doctrine not found in the Bible, and that was soundly shot down (by me, and many others), so I don’t know where you get off saying I haven’t answered you.
Now, again, I read that article, and I even did a word search using “99”, “ninety-nine”, as well as “%”, and “percent”, and nowhere in that article does it support your so called factual statement.
If you would actually read, and try to comprehend, you would see that what you stated is not in there.
Also, if you would read, I am not the only one asking you for references for your statements.
It is you that is being intellectually dishonest here.
You make unfounded claims, don’t back them up, and expect them to stand.
When you are ready to put your big boy pants on, and engage in a true discussion, with references to back up your “statements”, let us know.
You want to put your big boy pants on, then go to a Mormon website and see if you can keep up with it. Perhaps you have more time than I do. I don’t know. But I am sure you would not feel as safe as you feel here amoung your friends. Try leaving the nest and fly on your own.LOL, ok, it’s your story, you tell it any way you want.
You say you have “studied” this, but evidently, none of it has sunk in.
You made a statement about celibate priests being a doctrine not found in the Bible, and that was soundly shot down (by me, and many others), so I don’t know where you get off saying I haven’t answered you.
Now, again, I read that article, and I even did a word search using “99”, “ninety-nine”, as well as “%”, and “percent”, and nowhere in that article does it support your so called factual statement.
If you would actually read, and try to comprehend, you would see that what you stated is not in there.
Also, if you would read, I am not the only one asking you for references for your statements.
It is you that is being intellectually dishonest here, as has been pointed out earlier.
You make unfounded claims, don’t back them up, and expect them to stand.
When you are ready to put your big boy pants on, and engage in a true discussion, with references to back up your “statements”, let us know.
I did not want to attack your beliefs. It was crammed down my throat with multiple attacks from every front. I am human and when pushed I push back. I certainly did not want to try and convince anyone I am right and they are wrong. But that is what it has turned into. I will do better… I can honestly tell you that I am more happy than I was when I did not believe. I find much comfort knowing that if I continue to do my best, that I will be in Heaven with my Father through the sacrifice of his Son whom I can not even approach to understand what he has done for me and the world. I know that God has revealed more truth to the earth. I am glad that you feel that you are on the right path. I believe that God will reward you with the promise he has made to all that do their best. I just believe God has given more to us, and with that more will be given. I do not do this because he will give me more, but because I love Christ, and I want to follow him in all things. Are there sad people? You bet. Are there sad Catholics, you bet. Are there sad mormons, you bet. The only difference between you and me is that we believe differently about religion.
Trust me, I am on some mormon sites, including the overly heavy handed one at mormon dialogue. If you can call it that.
I do not know you, and I don’t feel that you attacked our beliefs, though I feel as this topic has gone on, responses have become more… aggressive, I suppose would be a good word. I do not feel anyone has “crammed” anything down anyone’s throat, rather expressed what we believe and will defend what we believe as you have done. That is the point of discussion and debate is it not?
Happy Birthday Z_Ninja.
thank you.Fat - I say this with all love: you have provide conjecture not proof. This is contrasted with the documented history of the early church. When one reads the early church fathers, one sees a Catholic church in theology, both in their letters and their homilies…including but not limited to sacramental baptism, annointing of the sick and the real presence of Christ in the Eucharist. The Catholic mass was practiced from the earliest times w/readings & prayers followed by receiving the Eucharist. But also…an understanding of the Trinity and a Catholic church structure of Popes, Bishops, Priests and Deacons.
Fat, your honesty is respected. A couple of ways to learn more outside of CAF would be a few book suggestions…and I would recommend stopping by your local Catholic church and speaking with a priest. The Cathedral of the Madeleine in SLC is a wonderful place to go to in this regards and only a stones throw or two from the LDS temple. RebeccaJ can speak more about this church and ways of continuing to explore the Catholic faith…milk, meat and potatoes included.
The bible comes from the church and tradition…not the other way around. Remember 1 Timothy 3:15…the Church is the Bulwark and Foundation of Truth. The Church gave us the bible…to be used at Mass…to have consistent set of readings across the world. The bible cost about 3 years wages so it was not found in homes. Only in churches and later places of education.
The BoM, D&C and PGP are all lies…brought forth by a false prophet with a premise that the Catholic church went into apostasy and was the whore of babylon. If you can’t understand that there was never an apostasy - and that the Catholic church is not the whore of babylon, then understanding the Catholic faith becomes more difficult…
The Church has had some “whoppers” who commited great personal sins. But that said, Catholic doctrine did not change. Christ protects the Church from doctrinal error, not sinners.
Catholic church has 1.2B…Christ said his church would be the Lamp on the Lampstand…and that he would be with his church until the end of time. Contradiction: he would be with it until the end of time but let it fall into apostasy for 1800 years? No… Every new Protestant church that opens up has a growth rate faster than LDS. They start at “0”.
Fats, the Catholic church is manifest through scripture, history, faith and reason. That’s how we know. You can also look at the extraordinary including incorruptable saints (google this) and apparitions of the Virgin Mary (google Fatima and Lourdes as examples). And yes, there are plenty of protestant doubters.
Happy birthday to you, happy birthday to you…happy birthday to Ninja. Happy birthday to you.
kpeople:kpeople: