LDS View of the Great Apostasy

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Fatboys said:
Is it just a coincedence that the major talking points that have been brought up on this forum could have been copied word for word from any webstie critical of the LDS religion.
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Fat,

I believe that you are sincere. I believe that what you have been taught is sincerely wrong. I believe that you do not understand the criticism. I believe I understand why. This is from your OP. You started this post…look at what you say…
When the apostles were killed off faster than they could replace them, the apostacy sped up. For a couple of hunderd years after the death of the last apostle, there was still not a combined book of the New Testament. You had parts of the written gospel here and there. I am not saying that those who in apostacy were evil doers, but that they were doing their best with what they had. The gosple message was so good, and so strong that even though I believe that it had started to be distorted and truths had been lost or replace that it still brought people together.
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This is CAF. This is a Catholic website. In this paragraph you, I believe unknowingly, attack Apostolic succession that this Church is built on. In this paragraph you attack the truths we believe are not twisted. In this paragraph you attack the authority of the Bible that was produced by this Church. You go on to say this…
Under this setting came Constantine. A ruler with a problem of how to unite the people he had control over. He could see that Christianity was a great unifying force. And thus we have religion taking over the control of the people by this.
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Many have seen this notion that Constantine brought about the Catholic faith. Protestants use this all the time to say that real Christianity is different and therefore Protestants have the real message. You stepped on a powder keg of untruth that has been heard before and is easily dismissed. You may not know this. You go on to further attack Apostolic succession without knowing it and denying the papacy.
In my view Christ was not refering to Peter as the rock. But the rock that gave Peter the understanding that Jesus is the Christ. Christ would not build his church on the arm of the flesh, because we know not long after this Peter denied the very Christ and Savior of the world. Not once, but three times. Christ stated that the very gates of Hell would not prevail against it. Again my understanding is that the Gates of Hell are the gates that hold the dead in. Once the gospel has been accepted, and the resurrection has taken place, the gates that hold the dead will be open and make it possible that a reuniting of the spirits and bodies takes place.
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What is telling is that this is how you end the post…

**That is my understanding of this. **

What follows and what you have seen is what you percieve to be criticism and you are proabably correct. You say that this is your understanding. You have said you came here to learn. Every attempt to correct “your understanding” is met with resistance and defense of your beliefs. I remind you again that you came to a Catholic Answer Forum where answers are given to questions. It is also a place where people can gain understanding.

I suggest you ask some questions, learn as you say you want to do and follow honestly the ending of this post and correct your understanding, because if this is your understanding and you want to propogate it then all you will get is criticism because that is all you asked for.

Ask for understanding. You will get understanding. Ask for correction to your understanding and you will get that as well. Criticize and you may get other than what you ask for…

What do you want from this CAF?..you have reaped what you sowed…

Wanna ask a question and start over?
 
PRmerger said:
Excellent.

Then you are in disagreement with your LDS brother Janderich, who said that just because someone was on paradise, one couldn’t assume he was saved.

So then we are agreed that one can be saved without baptism, although baptism is the normative means. 👍

From your fellow LDS member:
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Not sure you are not understanding this but I will try again. At death there is a partical judgement. Those that have done good go to paradise, those that have done evil go to spirit prison. This realm is called the spirit world. The veil that has covered us from birth is still intact, and we do not remember our pre-existant life. The thief that died on the cross recongized that Jesus was innocent and he was not. In order for a person to be saved they must first recongize that have done something wrong, they must feel sorry for doing something wrong, and then they need to confess those sins. As they do this, they then must ask forgiveness from God and from those they might of offended such as the person they stole from. If the go through these steps then God forgives them. But they also have to not commit that sin again. This does not save him automatically because the person has to continually obey Gods. HIs salvation depends on him, not anyone else. God provides the tools and means, but it is up to the thief to use them.
 
RebeccaJ said:
Are you sure?
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Yes
Do you agree that God the Father was once a man?
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Yes
Please check your Proclamation to the World. HM is Mormon doctrine. To say it isn’t is pretty astounding. Especially for Mormon women. I clearly remember being taught I was made in the image of “my Heavenly Mother”.
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You might have been, but it was not doctrine and the proclamation is a statement of policy. Reaffirms what is in the scriptures
 
CopticChristian said:
Fat,

I believe that you are sincere. I believe that what you have been taught is sincerely wrong. I believe that you do not understand the criticism. I believe I understand why. This is from your OP. You started this post…look at what you say…

This is CAF. This is a Catholic website. In this paragraph you, I believe unknowingly, attack Apostolic succession that this Church is built on. In this paragraph you attack the truths we believe are not twisted. In this paragraph you attack the authority of the Bible that was produced by this Church. You go on to say this…

Many have seen this notion that Constantine brought about the Catholic faith. Protestants use this all the time to say that real Christianity is different and therefore Protestants have the real message. You stepped on a powder keg of untruth that has been heard before and is easily dismissed. You may not know this. You go on to further attack Apostolic succession without knowing it and denying the papacy.

What is telling is that this is how you end the post…

**That is my understanding of this. **

What follows and what you have seen is what you percieve to be criticism and you are proabably correct. You say that this is your understanding. You have said you came here to learn. Every attempt to correct “your understanding” is met with resistance and defense of your beliefs. I remind you again that you came to a Catholic Answer Forum where answers are given to questions. It is also a place where people can gain understanding.

I suggest you ask some questions, learn as you say you want to do and follow honestly the ending of this post and correct your understanding, because if this is your understanding and you want to propogate it then all you will get is criticism because that is all you asked for.

Ask for understanding. You will get understanding. Ask for correction to your understanding and you will get that as well. Criticize and you may get other than what you ask for…

What do you want from this CAF?..you have reaped what you sowed…

Wanna ask a question and start over?
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I will never completely understand Catholism because I am not living it. Even if I had been a Catholic and converted to the LDS, I would soon forget many of the feelings and the culture that had been a part of my life. This is human nature. So all I can rely on to get my points across is the doctrines I disagree with and study the history. That still will not get me a true picture, but fairly close.
 
Fatboys said:
You might have been, but it was not doctrine
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Fat, how do you know what is doctrine in the LDS church…where does one go to get the alpha and omega of LDS doctrine?

I’ve heard this over and over since I signed up for CAF. What is and what is not LDS doctrine is confusing even to current LDS members and ex-members of your church. It’s even more confusing looking from the outside in, from someone that never was a Mormon.

Good news: on these words alone we agree…
At death there is a particular judgement
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Fats,

Why would man want to become God when he is already created before Him.

This absolutely doesn’t make sense.

Mormonism is modern day Gnosticism. And it all revolves around the man having perpetual sex with how many women he wants…and it goes on into the next life.

It is about the flesh trying to be spirit, trying to be God and then turning around back to man. No sense.

Then invalidating and calling Christianity an abomination 1800 years later. I would think 1800 years later after the event, if anything Christianity and all other beliefs would simply mean they are irrelevant to Mormonism.

It all doesn’t make any sense.
 
Cat_Herder said:
Then explain THIS.
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And this.

"Second: The living prophet is more vital to us than the Standard Works.

President Wilford Woodruff tells of an interesting incident that occurred in the days of the Prophet Joseph Smith:

“I will refer to a certain meeting I attended in the town of Kirtland in my early days. At that meeting some remarks were made that have been made here today, with regard to the living prophets and with regard to the written word of God. The same principle was presented, although not as extensively as it has been here, when a leading man in the Church got up and talked upon the subject, and said: ‘You have got the word of God before you here in the Bible, Book of Mormon, and Doctrine and Covenants; you have the written word of God, and you who give revelations should give revelations according to those books, as what is written in those books is the word of God. We should confine ourselves to them.’

“When he concluded, Brother Joseph turned to Brother Brigham Young and said, ‘Brother Brigham I want you to go to the podium and tell us your views with regard to the living oracles and the written word of God.’ Brother Brigham took the stand, and he took the Bible, and laid it down; he took the Book of Mormon, and laid it down; and he took the Book of Doctrine and Covenants, and laid it down before him, and he said: ‘There is the written word of God to us, concerning the work of God from the beginning of the world, almost, to our day. And now,’ said he, ‘when compared with the living oracles those books are nothing to me; those books do not convey the word of God direct to us now, as do the words of a Prophet or a man bearing the Holy Priesthood in our day and generation. I would rather have the living oracles than all the writing in the books.’ That was the course he pursued. When he was through, Brother Joseph said to the congregation; ‘Brother Brigham has told you the word of the Lord, and he has told you the truth.’” (Conference Report, October 1897, pp. 18–19.)"
 
Fatboys said:
It is the same as teaching we have a Heavenly Mother. It is not found in any doctrine but found in a hymn. Do I believe I have Heavenly Parents? I know I have a Heavenly Father. Do I believe there is a Heavenly Mother? Yes I do.
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“Conclusion
President Spencer W. Kimball, speaking to Latter-day Saint girls in Mexico City, said: “You are daughters of God. … You are made in the image of our heavenly mother. … Your body is sacred to you and precious” (in Conference Report, Mexico City and Central America Area Conference 1973, 108).”

“The Latter-day Saint Woman: Basic Manual for Women, Part A”
 
Fatboys said:
You might have been, but it was not doctrine and the proclamation is a statement of policy. Reaffirms what is in the scriptures
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Well the proclamation starts out with:

We, the First Presidency and the Council of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, solemnly proclaim

It seems you are totally lost if you can’t even count on these people to proclaim LDS doctrine to you and as they claim the world. They are solemnly declaring what ever to the world, how sad is that.
 
Since Christianity and all other religions are an abomination, then why bother competing with them or using our Sacred Scriptures…or Christianity at all.

The Gospels of Christ are insufficient to the needs of those who need Mormonism?..
 
zaffiroborant said:
Well the proclamation starts out with:

We, the First Presidency and the Council of the Twelve Apostles of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, solemnly proclaim

It seems you are totally lost if you can’t even count on these people to proclaim LDS doctrine to you and as they claim the world. They are solemnly declaring what ever to the world, how sad is that.
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I think the “that’s not doctrine” is a façade that is made by Mormons for non-Mormons. Mormon leaders teach, Mormons believe what they are taught. Whether or not what is believed by Mormons is doctrine or not, is pointless, and it is Mormons themselves who have made it pointless.

It’s just another method to hide what Mormonism teaches and what Mormons believe.
 
Sad but so true, seeing the references here on CAF that have been brought to the light as well as testimonies by those who left Mormonism…it certainly has alot of whoppers.

There are always people every where that hunger for the extraordinary when God works most in the ordinary things of life. How we are to love and do our best with the mundane things of our daily duty.
 
KathleenGee said:
Sad but so true, seeing the references here on CAF that have been brought to the light as well as testimonies by those who left Mormonism…it certainly has alot of whoppers.

There are always people every where that hunger for the extraordinary when God works most in the ordinary things of life. How we are to love and do our best with the mundane things of our daily duty.
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Now I want some Whoppers. 🙂
 
Ok, but you won’t be getting any more Twinkies that last a real long time, more than the Whoppers.
 
I mean those twinkies that look fresh on a dish for a long long time, long after the whoppers are gone.

Wonder if there is any analogy to this topic…
 
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