LDS: Why try to convert Catholics, what do we lack for salvation?

[paul_c]

I think the Catholic church and the Mormon church BOTH have things that they feel are too sacred for the non-believers to experience. For the LDS it is the Temple, for the Catholics it is Holy Communion. I know this is just a lightweight answer, but it does make a point. For those who are properly prepared in either the Catholic or the LDS church, nothing is denied Now, Parker could give you a much better answer Iam sure; he is good at that:thumbsup:
Annie

I think that was a pretty good answer.

 

[Javl]

Someday I hope you will learn as well, and I hope it won’t be too late.

Oh, I have learned when you were in diapers. Someday soon I pray you will understand.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

 

[Anna_Scott]

. . . .Joseph Smith did not choose the capitalization of the word “Gods” when he said “gods yourselves”, by the way. There is the distinction between “the only wise and true God” and those who become like God just as John wrote that man could become like Christ, through the grace and atonement of Jesus Christ and the faith of the person doing the living and the repenting.

God is capitalized in reference to exaltation of man in JD. Where did Joseph Smith say man is to become “like God”?

Seems clear that exaltation is becoming “a God” (capitalized,) not becoming “like God.”

"JD 6:3, Joseph Smith, April 6, 1844
I will go back to the beginning, before the world was, to show what kind of a being God is. What sort of a being was God in the beginning? Open your ears and hear all ye ends of the earth; for I am going to prove it to you by the Bible, and to tell you the designs of God in relation to the human race, and why he interferes with the affairs of man.

JD 6:3, Joseph Smith, April 6, 1844
God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted Man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens. That is the great secret. If the vail was rent to-day, and the great God who holds this world in its orbit, and who upholds all worlds and all things by his power, was to make himself visible, - I say, if you were to see him to-day, you would see him like a man in form - like yourselves, in all the person, image, and very form as a man; for Adam was created in the very fashion, image, and likeness of God, and received instruction from, and walked, talked, and conversed with him, as one man talks and communes with another.

JD 6:3, Joseph Smith, April 6, 1844
In order to understand the subject of the dead, for the consolation of those who mourn for the loss of their friends, it is necessary that we should understand the character and being of God, and how he came to be so; for I am going to tell you how God came to be God. **We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity, I will refute that idea, and will take away and do away the vail, so that you may see.

**JD 6:3 - p.4, Joseph Smith, April 6, 1844
These are incomprehensible ideas to some; but they are simple. It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the character of God and to know that we may converse with him as one man converses with another, and that he was once a man like us; yea, that God himself the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth the same as Jesus Christ himself did; and I will show it from the Bible. I wish I was in a suitable place to tell it, and that I had the trump of an archangel, so that I could tell the story in such a manner that persecution would cease for ever. What did Jesus say? (Mark it, Elder Rigdon.)

The Scriptures inform us that Jesus said, “As the Father hath power in himself, even so hath the Son power” - to do what? Why, what the Father did. The answer is obvious - in a manner, to lay down his body and take it up again. **Jesus, what are you going to do? To lay down my life, as my Father did, and take it up again. Do you believe it? If you do not believe it, you do not believe the Bible. The Scriptures say it, and I defy all the learning and wisdom and all the combined powers of earth and hell together to refute it. **

JD 6:4, Joseph Smith, April 6, 1844
Here, then, is eternal life - to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you, - namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one, - from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power. And I want you to know that God, in the last days, while certain individuals are proclaiming his name, is not trifling with you or me.

JD 6:4, Joseph Smith, April 6, 1844
These are the first principles of consolation. How consoling to the mourners, when they are called to part with a husband, wife, father, mother, child, or dear relative, to know that, although the earthly tabernacle is laid down and dissolved they shall rise again, to dwell in everlasting burnings in immortal glory, not to sorrow, suffer, or die any more; but they shall be heirs of God and joint-heirs with Jesus Christ. What is it?

To inherit the same power, the same glory, and the same exaltation, until you arrive at the station of a God and ascend the throne of eternal power, the same as those who have gone before. What did Jesus do? Why, I do the things I saw my Father do when worlds come rolling into existence. **My Father worked out his kingdom with fear and trembling, and I must do the same; and when I get my kingdom, I shall present it to my Father, so that he may obtain kingdom upon kingdom, and it will exalt him in glory. He will then take a higher exaltation, and I will take his place, and thereby become exalted myself. **

**So that Jesus treads in the track of his Father, and inherits what God did before; and God is thus glorified and exalted in the salvation and exaltation of all his children. **It is plain beyond disputation; and you thus learn some of the first principles of the Gospel, about which so much hath been said."
(For those who do not have access to the Journal of Discourses, it can be found online at this link: journalofdiscourses.org/volume-06/)

Would you clarify?

Thanks,
Anna

 

[dianaiad]

I’ve been enjoying this very educational discussion and the discourse on this question. I however, would like to jump in and just ask about a main component of LDS theology that I don’t understand and in some ways explains why we Catholics and others often will refer to the Mormon Church as a cult. Any person is allowed in the highest and most scared of the Roman Catholic cathederals, including the Sistine Chapel, but unless I’m a Mormon with a “temple recommend” (which means I turn over my financial records and pay my mandatory 10% a year), I am not allowed in the secret rooms of a Mormon Temple. This seems very much the same as Scientologists not being given the final key to the universe unless they keep on taking classes and paying and paying and paying. I think it can be safely assumed that most of us regard Scientology as a cult.
Any clarification on these mandates would be great!

Ok, first, we do NOT ‘turn over our financial records.’ Ever. We are asked, simply, “are you a full tithe payer?” and our word for it is taken. In all my years I have never once been asked to provide my financial records for any reason—even when I had to come to the church and request financial aid when my husband was dying.

Second, Yes, there are places in the Catholic church that the general public is not allowed. I know of one of them right here in the valley–a monestary that has a lovely visiter’s center, gift shop and chapel, but where the monk’s private chapel, living and work areas are very much off limits to anyone but the monks. They are a cloistered order (I don’t think many of those still exist, do they?). If you are not a monk of that order, or a visiting priest, you simply do not get in.

Considering the number of times that I have had to run a guantlet of foul mouthed and profane demonstraters outside a Temple in order to get into one myself, I think that it is a very good thing that there is one place where we KNOW we can be quiet and worship as we please without fear of the sort of …stuff…we have been exposed to elsewhere.

It’s not as if what goes on in there is any sort of secret, after all.

 

[Answersplease]

Anyone else find the Shalom Aleichem reference a bit ironic considering the content of these posts?

It depends on what kind of peace:

1.) The peace of Jesus Christ who is the Truth.

OR

2.) The peace of appeasement and false solidarity

You seem to have spoken for “relativism”, for example: if the Mormon religion works for you then that is where you should be.

First, I have a confirmation of the restoration, Book of Mormon and Joseph Smith from the Holly Ghost.

I sincerely believe that God works with people “where they’re at.” And I do believe you have the confirmation of which you speak. Thus I sincerely believe that according to what you’ve said above, that you are indeed in the appropriate faith place to live out your relationship with God.

You should realize that the Catholic leadership has spoken out against moral relativism.

There can only be ONE Truth,

there can only be ONE Way,

there can only be ONE Gospel.

Jesus Christ is The Way, The Truth, and The Life.

The Gospel is the life and times of Jesus Christ.

 

[Anna_Scott]

I know your question was not for me, but you brought up an interesting point; defending someone’s faith. One can completely defend another’s faith without the defending statements being their own beliefs! As far as a clear picture of THeosis’ beliefs, note that he is a Catholic “pondering the LDS CHurch”, therefore I think it is pretty clear that he is seeking to define his own beliefs at this time (Theosis, please correct me if I am wrong). Beliefs are defended every day in courts of law, even when the defense lawyer does not necessarily believe the same things as the client he/she represents. If we cease to defend the beliefs and right to those beliefs of those who believe different from us, then we slowly chip away at our own ability to be “free thinkers”. Everyone has free will and the right to believe what they want and everybody should srive to keep that same freedom for all:thumbsup:

Annie

Annie B,

If you remember a few posts back, I said I was banned from a Baptist website for defending the Catholic Faith. They banned me, claiming I was a “Catholic Troll” (I am not Catholic.) So, I understand the concept of defending the beliefs of others.

I was asking Theosis about personal beliefs, which no one else can answer.

Thanks,
Anna

 

[Annie_B]

Annie B,

If you remember a few posts back, I said I was banned from a Baptist website for defending the Catholic Faith. They banned me, claiming I was a “Catholic Troll” (I am not Catholic.) So, I understand the concept of defending the beliefs of others.

I was asking Theosis about personal beliefs, which no one else can answer.

Thanks,
Anna

Sorry I wont reply to your posts anymore unless they are directed at me.
Annie

 

[Anna_Scott]

I think the Catholic church and the Mormon church BOTH have things that they feel are too sacred for the non-believers to experience. For the LDS it is the Temple, for the Catholics it is Holy Communion. I know this is just a lightweight answer, but it does make a point. For those who are properly prepared in either the Catholic or the LDS church, nothing is denied Now, Parker could give you a much better answer Iam sure; he is good at that:thumbsup:
Annie

I think that was a pretty good answer.

In Mormon Temples, Mormons perform rites by proxy, including baptisms of the deceased-including deceased Catholic Priests, and Jewish Holocaust victims.

I don’t think the Catholic Eucharist can be compared to the secret rites performed in Mormon Temples.

Anna

 

[Annie_B]

Goodbye everyone
Annie

 

[Anna_Scott]

Sorry I wont reply to your posts anymore unless they are directed at me.
Annie

I don’t mind you replying. I was just clarifying my question to Theosis.

Anna

 

[ParkerD]

God is capitalized in reference to exaltation of man in JD. Where did Joseph Smith say man is to become “like God”?

Seems clear that exaltation is becoming “a God” (capitalized,) not becoming “like God.”

"JD 6:3, Joseph Smith, April 6, 1844
I will go back to the beginning, before the world was, to show what kind of a being God is. What sort of a being was God in the beginning? Open your ears and hear all ye ends of the earth; for I am going to prove it to you by the Bible, …
JD 6:3, Joseph Smith, April 6, 1844
God himself was once as we are now, and is an exalted Man, and sits enthroned in yonder heavens. That is the great secret. If the vail was rent to-day, and the great God who holds this world in its orbit, and who upholds all worlds and all things by his power, was to make himself visible, - I say, if you were to see him to-day, you would see him like a man in form - like yourselves, in all the person, image, and very form as a man; for Adam was created in the very fashion, image, and likeness of God, and received instruction from, and walked, talked, and conversed with him, as one man talks and communes with another.

JD 6:3, Joseph Smith, April 6, 1844
… it is necessary that we should understand the character and being of God, and how he came to be so; for I am going to tell you how God came to be God. **We have imagined and supposed that God was God from all eternity, I will refute that idea, and will take away and do away the vail, so that you may see.

**JD 6:3 - p.4, Joseph Smith, April 6, 1844
These are incomprehensible ideas to some; but they are simple. It is the first principle of the Gospel to know for a certainty the character of God and to know that we may converse with him as one man converses with another, and that he was once a man like us; yea, that God himself the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth the same as Jesus Christ himself did; and I will show it from the Bible. … What did Jesus say? (Mark it, Elder Rigdon.)

The Scriptures inform us that Jesus said, “As the Father hath power in himself, even so hath the Son power” - to do what? Why, what the Father did. The answer is obvious - in a manner, to lay down his body and take it up again. Jesus, what are you going to do? To lay down my life, as my Father did, and take it up again. Do you believe it? If you do not believe it, you do not believe the Bible. The Scriptures say it, and I defy all the learning and wisdom and all the combined powers of earth and hell together to refute it.

JD 6:4, Joseph Smith, April 6, 1844
Here, then, is eternal life - to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you, - namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one, - from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power. …
JD 6:4, Joseph Smith, April 6, 1844
… to dwell in everlasting burnings in immortal glory, not to sorrow, suffer, or die any more; but they shall be heirs of God and joint-heirs with Jesus Christ. What is it?

To inherit the same power, the same glory, and the same exaltation, until you arrive at the station of a God and ascend the throne of eternal power, the same as those who have gone before. What did Jesus do? Why, I do the things I saw my Father do when worlds come rolling into existence. **My Father worked out his kingdom with fear and trembling, and I must do the same; and when I get my kingdom, I shall present it to my Father, so that he may obtain kingdom upon kingdom, and it will exalt him in glory. He will then take a higher exaltation, and I will take his place, and thereby become exalted myself. **

**So that Jesus treads in the track of his Father, and inherits what God did before; and God is thus glorified and exalted in the salvation and exaltation of all his children. **It is plain beyond disputation; and you thus learn some of the first principles of the Gospel, about which so much hath been said."

Would you clarify?

Thanks,
Anna

Anna Scott,
I don’t mind clarifying, and thanks for asking as well as for posting more of the King Follett Discourse for clarity. (shortened some quotes)

I suppose there are two trains of thought when an editor decides whether to capitalize the word “God” or any word that would be one of His names. One train of thought would follow the KJV Bible practice of using a capital letter when speaking of the Father or the Son, and a small letter when there is any other connotation. I was in that mode when I suggested that Joseph Smith didn’t edit his own talk and make a decision about the use of a capital G or not. He did distinctly differentiate in the same talk (as I earlier had quoted) between God the Father, God the Son, and any other Being who became a god through reliance on the Savior’s atoning grace and through keeping their covenants faithfully. (My choice is not to capitalize, to preserve the differentiation that was clear in Joseph Smith’s discourse.)

I think the words “like Christ” are exactly what I mean when I think of the terms “kings and priests unto God”. John wrote “we shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as He is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.” (1 John 3:2-3)

 

[ParkerD]

Anna Scott,
Here is a continuation of what I had written in my response to your last question to me:

That (the verses in 1 John 3) gives a clear picture of what needs to happen–we need to prepare to be like Him by seeking to become pure through His atoning grace and through being changed by Him through sanctification. We can’t be holding back, or not trusting the power of His atoning grace. He has a plan for our lives that includes a mighty change, but He can’t do that if we are not willing to be changed. His plan (which is also the Father’s plan) is that we can really gain a fullness of joy which can only come through a fullness of love and a fullness of the desire to bring to others the opportunity to be brought to the highest good that they can achieve. It is for us to want for others (other unprogressed spirits, when that time eventually were to come in eternity) what God wants for us–a fullness of joy.

The power of godliness comes about through perfect faith, perfect love, a fervent love of truth, and a perfect desire to allow completely free choice to predominate in every relationship we will have in eternity. Included in allowing such choice is allowing each spirit to progress at their own rate and to choose however much knowledge they want to choose–not placing them in a position of having “forced knowledge” or “knowledge that they really didn’t want to know.” It is a fascinating study to observe how Christ did this very thing in how He presented the knowledge of the gospel to those He taught.

 

[zaffiroborant]

Ok, first, we do NOT ‘turn over our financial records.’ Ever. We are asked, simply, “are you a full tithe payer?” and our word for it is taken. In all my years I have never once been asked to provide my financial records for any reason—even when I had to come to the church and request financial aid when my husband was dying.

Second, Yes, there are places in the Catholic church that the general public is not allowed. I know of one of them right here in the valley–a monestary that has a lovely visiter’s center, gift shop and chapel, but where the monk’s private chapel, living and work areas are very much off limits to anyone but the monks. They are a cloistered order (I don’t think many of those still exist, do they?). If you are not a monk of that order, or a visiting priest, you simply do not get in.

Considering the number of times that I have had to run a guantlet of foul mouthed and profane demonstraters outside a Temple in order to get into one myself, I think that it is a very good thing that there is one place where we KNOW we can be quiet and worship as we please without fear of the sort of …stuff…we have been exposed to elsewhere.

It’s not as if what goes on in there is any sort of secret, after all.

They are off limits because they are private areas in a personal sense, the same as your bedroom or place of employment or a Catholic’s home altar. And even if the entire monastery was off limits there are no Sacraments that are only available within the walls of the monastery. So this is comparing apples to oranges.

 

[scottj]

This is a great thread and appreciate everyones tone on both sides. Have posted and viewed on other threads regarding LDS and have seen so much hatred that this thread is really really refreshing. I have had many questions about the Mormon religion and am getting alot of information that answers those questions. Thanks Everyone.

 

[Anna_Scott]

This is a great thread and appreciate everyones tone on both sides. Have posted and viewed on other threads regarding LDS and have seen so much hatred that this thread is really really refreshing. I have had many questions about the Mormon religion and am getting alot of information that answers those questions. Thanks Everyone.

The tone could change at any moment. I really don’t think anyone posting on this thread is into hatred; but we all have our beliefs–which leads to interesting discussions.

Welcome to CAF Scottj. This is a great forum.

Anna

 

[scottj]

Thanks Anna. I am enjoying and learning alot in just reading the many different threads out there… although I have run into some very “heated”/borderline hateful posts which saddens me… but that is alright because for few posts like that I read, there are dozens upon dozen upon dozens others that are filled with love, learning, and genuine exchanges of ideas and thoughts. Peace Out.

 

[Anna_Scott]

. . . . .Joseph Smith did not choose the capitalization of the word “Gods” when he said “gods yourselves”, by the way. There is the distinction between “the only wise and true God” and those who become like God just as John wrote that man could become like Christ, through the grace and atonement of Jesus Christ and the faith of the person doing the living and the repenting.

The “editors” of the Journal of Discourses used God, capitalized, for those who become gods by exaltation. Not sure why these editors made a different assumption from yours regarding Joseph Smith’s intentions; but appreciate your explanation as quoted below:

. . . . .I suppose there are two trains of thought when an editor decides whether to capitalize the word “God” or any word that would be one of His names. One train of thought would follow the KJV Bible practice of using a capital letter when speaking of the Father or the Son, and a small letter when there is any other connotation. I was in that mode when I suggested that Joseph Smith didn’t edit his own talk and make a decision about the use of a capital G or not. He did distinctly differentiate in the same talk (as I earlier had quoted) between God the Father, God the Son, and any other Being who became a god through reliance on the Savior’s atoning grace and through keeping their covenants faithfully. (My choice is not to capitalize, to preserve the differentiation that was clear in Joseph Smith’s discourse.)

I think the words “like Christ” are exactly what I mean when I think of the terms “kings and priests unto God”. John wrote “we shall be like Him; for we shall see Him as He is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.” (1 John 3:2-3)

I do not doubt that “like Christ” is what you meant; and that is certainly demonstrated in the Holy Scripture of the Bible.

Joseph Smith, however, said, "you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you.

So man becomes “god,” “the same as all the gods have done before you.” Who are these “gods” who came before? Are they other exalted men, who have become gods? Do they have their own kingdoms somewhere?

JD 6:4, Joseph Smith, April 6, 1844
Here, then, is eternal life - to know the only wise and true God; and you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you,

JD 6:4, Joseph Smith, April 6, 1844
Continued:

• namely, by going from one small degree to another, and from a small capacity to a great one, - from grace to grace, from exaltation to exaltation, until you attain to the resurrection of the dead, and are able to dwell in everlasting burnings and to sit in glory, as do those who sit enthroned in everlasting power. And I want you to know that God, in the last days, while certain individuals are proclaiming his name, is not trifling with you or me.

Above, JS gives a description of salvation that is quite different from “orthodox” Christian beliefs. One must go from “exaltation to exaltation.” What does this mean exactly? Is this referring to multiple lives on earth, each resulting in a greater degree of exaltation–a greater degree of becoming god.?

How is grace to grace and exaltation to exaltation a salvation through Christ? Does Christ help man become god?

I appreciate your comments in your two-part post; but I didn’t see where you addressed the words of Joseph Smith. He seems quite clear about what it means to become a god.

JD 6:4, Joseph Smith, April 6, 1844
". . . .To inherit the same power, the same glory, and the same exaltation,
until you arrive at the station of a God
and ascend the throne of eternal power,
the same as those who have gone before.
What did Jesus do? Why, I do the things I saw my Father do when worlds come rolling into existence.
My Father worked out his kingdom with fear and trembling,
and I must do the same;
and when I get my kingdom, I shall present it to my Father,
so that he may obtain kingdom upon kingdom, and it will exalt him in glory.
He will then take a higher exaltation,
and I will take his place, and thereby become exalted myself.

So that Jesus treads in the track of his Father,
and inherits what God did before;
and God is thus glorified and exalted in the salvation and exaltation of all his children. It is plain beyond disputation; and you thus learn some of the first principles of the Gospel, about which so much hath been said."

To inherit the same power, glory, the same exaltation, until you arrive at a station of god, and ascend the throne of eternal power, is far more than becoming “like God.”

This idea of the Father having “worked out his kingdom with fear and trembling,” cannot be God the Father, that Christians worship. Mankind is to work out salvation in fear and trembling. It is inconceivable to think of God working out His kingdom with fear and trembling.

The idea that God the Father is to “obtain kingdom upon kingdom,” that will “exalt him in glory,” and take Him to a “higher exaltation.,” is not consistent with the Bible. How can our Eternal God attain a higher exaltation? Can He become more God?

I don’t see how these ideas can be reconciled with the Bible.

Thanks,
Anna

 

[TheosisM]

Oh, I have learned when you were in diapers. Someday soon I pray you will understand.

PAX DOMINI

Shalom Aleichem

And I pray that someday soon you will understand as well.

 

[TheosisM]

God is capitalized in reference to exaltation of man in JD. Where did Joseph Smith say man is to become “like God”?

Seems clear that exaltation is becoming “a God” (capitalized,) not becoming “like God.”

I know that you aren’t Catholic, but here is an interesting quote from the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
**
460 The Word became flesh to make us “partakers of the divine nature”:“For this is why the Word became man, and the Son of God became the Son of man: so that man, by entering into communion with the Word and thus receiving divine sonship, might become a son of God.” “For the Son of God became man so that we might become God.” “The only-begotten Son of God, wanting to make us sharers in his divinity, assumed our nature, so that he, made man, might make men gods.”**
scborromeo.org/ccc/para/460.htm

I think in both cases, the issue is, what is deification referring to (not really whether a letter is capitalized or not, since the Catechism clearly uses a capital G in saying that “we might become God”, then a lower-case G in saying “might make men gods” Deification in Catholicism/Orthodoxy is of course different from deification in Mormonism.

I believe the above statements are from St. Athanasius.

 

[ParkerD]

The “editors” of the Journal of Discourses used God, capitalized, for those who become gods by exaltation. Not sure why these editors made a different assumption from yours regarding Joseph Smith’s intentions; but appreciate your explanation as quoted below:

I do not doubt that “like Christ” is what you meant; and that is certainly demonstrated in the Holy Scripture of the Bible.

Joseph Smith, however, said, "you have got to learn how to be Gods yourselves, and to be kings and priests to God, the same as all Gods have done before you.

(1) So man becomes “god,” “the same as all the gods have done before you.” Who are these “gods” who came before? Are they other exalted men, who have become gods? Do they have their own kingdoms somewhere?

(2) Above, JS gives a description of salvation that is quite different from “orthodox” Christian beliefs. One must go from “exaltation to exaltation.” What does this mean exactly? Is this referring to multiple lives on earth, each resulting in a greater degree of exaltation–a greater degree of becoming god.?

How is grace to grace and exaltation to exaltation a salvation through Christ? Does Christ help man become god?

I appreciate your comments in your two-part post; but I didn’t see where you addressed the words of Joseph Smith. He seems quite clear about what it means to become a god.

To inherit the same power, glory, the same exaltation, until you arrive at a station of god, and ascend the throne of eternal power, is far more than becoming “like God.”

(3) This idea of the Father having “worked out his kingdom with fear and trembling,” cannot be God the Father, that Christians worship. Mankind is to work out salvation in fear and trembling. It is inconceivable to think of God working out His kingdom with fear and trembling.

(4) The idea that God the Father is to “obtain kingdom upon kingdom,” that will “exalt him in glory,” and take Him to a “higher exaltation.,” is not consistent with the Bible. How can our Eternal God attain a higher exaltation? Can He become more God?

I don’t see how these ideas can be reconciled with the Bible.

Thanks,
Anna

Hi, Anna,
I had attempted to provide greater context with respect to the idea of gaining the knowledge and power and love related to becoming like Christ, or in other words, like God, with my prior post.

Here are specific responses to your questions from above:

(1) Joseph Smith taught that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob have become “gods”, and “entered into their exaltation”. (D & C 132:37–note the use of a small “g” for the word.) Note also that “entered” has a similar connotation to the phrase “exaltation to exaltation”, which to me means that one enters into exaltation which is a type of resurrection, and then begins to learn their exaltation, which is that they learn how to really be like Christ which at that beginning point they do not know as yet. “It will be a great while beyond the grave before learning one’s exaltation.” (paraphrased)

So I myself doubt that Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob “have their own kingdoms somewhere” as yet, but they are learning their exaltation at this point. I would only be speculating as regards any other situation.

(2) There is no connotation of “multiple lives on earth”. At the beginning point of being exalted, one receives the type of body that is an exalted body in their resurrection. Then, they begin the learning process and the continuation of a growth process that leads them to “exaltation” meaning to really become like Christ in their knowledge, righteous power, and love. Christ helps at every step of the way, so “yes” Christ helps man become a “god.” (I also loved TheosisM’s comment about whether to capitalize the “g” or not.) “Grace to grace” means to grow from one stage of understanding and development to a higher stage of understanding and development, all through the grace Christ has offered.

(3) The use of the words “fear and trembling” would have to do with the exactitude and careful focus on the goal, that a perfect Being (God the Father or His Beloved Son) had when they dwelt on an earth. It is not human fear. It is Godly faith in the result, and “trembling” lest One should be tempted and give in to the temptation. Neither of Them did give in to temptation at any point.

(4) “Higher exaltation” would not have to do with gaining more knowledge or more power in the universe, but connotes that as humankind become like Christ, God the Father has an expanded “glory” inasmuch as by Christ having provided access to the full grace required for exaltation, some of His children (and Christ’s children by His adoption) gain an exalted, eternal weight of glory and that adds to the “glory” of the Father because it means Christ’s victory is His victory also. So "no–it is not “becoming more God”. It is “becoming more victorious in bringing and leading souls to a condition of exaltation.”