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mdrummer5
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Sir, your use of logic and scripture in the same post doesn’t belong here
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Fluffyfox
Guest
Yeah,one time i mentioned liking metal here,someone else mentioned Slipknot and i said that they’re not metal. What ever happened to metal elitism?Sir, your use of logic and scripture in the same post doesn’t belong here
I think most of the people here mistake metal for emo/screamo,even though i made my dislike for Emos,screamo known.
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JHow
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Um, now, didn’t those Eagles write “Hotel California” about Anton LaVey?
snopes.com/music/songs/hotel.asp
Seriously, my personal opinion is that Led Zeppelin improved my musical tastes by pointing me to their roots in the blues and folk music. By reading liner notes and asking questions like who is Willie Dixon, or Robert Johnson, I went backwards in time from Zep to Yardbirds, to the real blues guys before them. If you look behind the face of Bonham, Jones, Plant and Page, you don’t find the face of the devil, but largely the faces of American black men. You also find out about stuff like “skiffle”, and Bert Jansch.
What would you find if you looked behind the face of Marty Haugen, one wonders?
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Joe_5859
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Elitist!
I’m with you, though. I’ve been listening to heavy metal music for the past 20+ years and I don’t really understand the attraction to all the nu stuff.
I try not to be elitist about it, though. 
One does get the feeling sometimes that the words “heavy metal” are synonymous in many people’s minds with that sort of stuff.
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Portrait
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Dear Ne_ Orange Knight,
Cordial greetings and thankyou for your response to my post.
By way of reply, let me say first that one does not need to be endued with papal infallibility to dogmatically assert that rock/pop music is debased sensory material which glamorizes and actively promotes sin. Indeed, it would be a dereliction of Christian duty not to bring this fact to mens notice, since we are exhorted to “Take no part in the unfruitful works of darkness, but instead expose them” (Eph. 5: 11). Now clearly we cannot do this unless we are prepared to make judgements respecting the “unfruitful works” themselves. Moreover, you will observe that it is to the Christian laity that St. Paul addresses his words - “to the saints who are faithful in Christ Jesus” (Eph. 1: 1) - not the priesthood.
Rock and pop music make their appeal to those carnal, sensual and worldly elements in man’s fallen nature, which are aroused by and chime with this deplorable music. It is impotent to ennoble a man, unlike classical and sacred music, by elevating him to a higher level of thought and feeling, but contriwise, it has a tendency to coursen his manners and conduct, by stimualting those elemental passions. This is hardly surprising when you consider the whole philosophy of life to which it has been wedded since its inception. As Time magazine once correctly observed, “In a sense all rock is revolutionary. By its very beat and sound it has always implicitly rejected restraints and celebrated freedom and sexuality”.
Why would any Catholic worth their salt want to befoul their souls by listening to the likes of Led Zeppelin when you have Jimmy Page declaring that ‘Rock ‘n’ roll is sexually you music’? Whether he is making such statements for “effect” or “bad boy image” or not, that does not make them any less objectionable nor lessen their immoral impact.
Incidently, whilst the Vatican office has not made Led Zeppelin a mortal sin, that does not ipso-facto give the faithful the green light to go ahead and listen to it. The Church surely expects Catholics to use their sanctified common sense and wisdom when evaluating the goodness or badness etc. of their entertainments. In any event it is not quite true to say that the Church has not denounced rock and pop music. In one sense the Church could be said to censure this debased sensory material, inasmuch as it teaches against anything that is harmful to the innate dignity of man or which glamorizes sin and immorality. Owing to the moral bankruptcy of rock and pop music, it will never have any reedemable value and thus will always be be harmful to man’s innate dignity. Therefore, it cannot co-exist with those who profess godliness and who claim to “desire a better country, that is, a heavenly one” (Heb. 11: 16). Moreover, those who feast upon the vulgarity of rock are unlikely to develop a passionate attachment to that which is pure, lovely and virtuous, not are they likely to strive to live up to the arduous requirements demanded by our most holy Faith.
Warmest good wishes,
Portrait
Pax
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styrgwillidar
Guest
Wow, you and me both. Ever hear the album, ‘It’s a Bloody Life’ by Sonny Boy Williamson? A friend gave it to me because Jimmy Page played on it as a studio musician. That led me to a lot of other “american black men” and the blues which were the foundation for modern rock (Beatles/Rolling Stones/Foghat/Zeppelin/Cream etc. etc. all blues based) Funny listening to Foghat’s cover of “I Just Want to Make Love to You”, and then the original 1954 version by Muddy Waters, and finding out it was written by Willie Dixon.
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Portrait
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Dear Mickey,
Cordial greetings and thankyou for the above.
Your (name removed by moderator)ut is especially valuable since you were formerly involved with rock music and are therefore fully cognizant respecting its inherent evils. My earnest prayer is that others in the present debate will ponder carefully what you have said and will, even yet, have a change of heart and revise their thinking upon this issue.
On the subject of personal testimony, I myself have not always been beyond reproach as regards rock and pop music. Prior to my conversion to Christ at the age of 21, I was an ardent devotee of rock, pop, disco and funk music, especially the latter two. Indeed, I had a sizable LP and singles collection, which had taken me a considerable time to aquire. When I embraced the Christian religion, I did not immediately dispose of my entire collection or even cease listening to it. As a matter of fact I continued to listen to it as before, but I soon discovered that it no longer held the same attraction as it formerly did and somehow it seemed impure and incompatible even with my nascent faith. No zealous puritanical minded Christian exerted any pressure upon me to get rid of my record collection, but I knew myself that there had to be a parting of the ways. At length I made the decision to sell my entire collection, which, as you can imagine, was extremely difficult as I had been collecting records since I was a teenager. Nevertheless, God gave me sufficient grace to do this and I remember buying some sacred music LP’s with the money (not a great deal) I got from the second hand record dealers.
When I returned home that day I knew that I had done the right thing and I felt the holy presence of Christ with me, which is something I shall never forget. No doubt people will say that if God called me to that course of drastic action, then all well and good, but that does not necessarily mean that he is calling all other Christians to do likewise. Now this is where I strongly disagree, for God is calling every man to sanctity and separation from the godless world. This will, of necessity, entail abstaining from that which is decidedly unwholesome - “beloved, let us cleanse ourselves from every defilement of body and spirit, and make holiness perfect in the fear of God” (II Cor. 7: 1). God’s will is our entire sanctification and that we walk worthy of the vocation wherewith He has called us. The call to Christian discipleship always involves self-sacrifice and sometimmes that self-sacrifice will be painful and we will rebel for a season.
This is my final post for the time being, but may I take this opportunity to wish you Mickey, and all other contributors to this thread, a relaxing and pleasant weekend.
Warmest good wishes,
Portrait
Pax:tiphat:
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Fluffyfox
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Yeah.Elitist!
I’m with you, though. I’ve been listening to heavy metal music for the past 20+ years and I don’t really understand the attraction to all the nu stuff.
One does get the feeling sometimes that the words “heavy metal” are synonymous in many people’s minds with that sort of stuff.
Nu-metal has
detuned guitars
Guitars you can hardly hear
no guitar solos(very basic guitar work)
the lead guitarist rapping versus singing or growling.
Nu-metal is more hiphop/rap influenced than metal influenced.
I think i could probably be a writer for guitar world.
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JHow
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When I found Sonny Boy I finally was able to decipher Plant singing the words “baby baby…” on “Bring it On Home” (which is a nice wholesome song about bourgeois domestic bliss - my interpretation, anyway
). I was like “Oh, that’s what the song is!”I should note, now that we have the internet, we can access song lyrics anytime we like. When I first listened to Zeppelin, it was on the radio, or LP. I have had many cases of discovering that what I thought the lyrics were and what they actually are were two different things.
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Robertanthony
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[FONT=ArialYoko Ono, wife of the late John Lennon, in a Playboy interview that “they were like mediums. They weren’t conscious of all they were saying, but it was coming through them.”
[/QUOTE]
I take great offense at this, Jharek. She’s a gravely underrated vocalist, among the greatest artists of the 20th century, a credible emblem of the peace movement, flashing the peace sign and stuff, not to mention a very smart and balanced woman
This priest doesn’t seem to think there’s anything wrong with Led Zeppelin: Una grande quantità de amoreyoutube.com/watch?v=fQvp8qDsDqA&playnext=1&list=PL1DACF797157EB356
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Ne_OrangeKnight
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Of course you are able to make judgments as to what works are unfruitful. The problem being, whether they be right are wrong, they are based upon your fallible opinion. As such, it is not proper for your sensitive conscience to bind me, any more than it is proper for the sensitive Jewish conscience in the first century to bind Gentile Christians from eating pork.
To be quite honest, I feel very little elevation from classical music. It does not lift up my mind or soul to a higher level; rather, I find much of it impotent and boring. I think that it’s fine if you enjoy it, but I do not. There is no sin in this.
On the other hand, I am uplifted by something like Argent’s “Hold Your Head High”
And if they stare / Just let them burn your eyes on your moving
And if they shout / Don’t let it change a thing that you’re doing
Because Jimmy page does not speak for all of rock and pop music, nor are his words authoritatively binding on my opinions of music.
Also, did you see any of the songs I listed in my last post? How are Chapel of Love or Fool in the Rain debased or sexually-charged? How does the Beatles’ Dear Prudence coarsen my manners or appeal to my base sexual desire?
Sorry, but this is just patently absurd. Yes, inasmuch as a particular song is violently at odds with the Faith, I will avoid it. I absolutely refuse to listen to Hell’s Bells by AC/DC, for example. But to say categorically that no rock or pop song has any redeeming value whatsoever is just wrong, as I have shown with several examples.
To sum up, please consider Romans 14:13-14.
Sam, the Neon Orange Knight
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Mickey
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Taste? Have you listened to some of the lyrics?
So “playing it up” for the sake of a buck makes it okay? Furthermore, do you think that the youth will idolize some of these musicians (like Page and Richards–including their notorious use of drugs such as heroin? Is that “playing it up?”
So “playing it up” for the sake of a buck makes it okay? Furthermore, do you think that the youth will idolize some of these musicians (like Page and Richards–including their notorious use of drugs such as heroin? Is that “playing it up?”
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Mickey
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I would suggest you contact Bro Ignatius and let him know of your disdain for his views and explanations. Perhaps you could send him some of that bitter sarcasm that you keep posting. 
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Mickey
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Yes. There is no doubt about that.
Indeed, my friend. There is much written on the passions and the ways that we are enticed to feed those passions. We are called to be watchful at all times. We hear in Sacred Scripture that to even look upon a woman lustfully is equivalent to adultery. Much of the music we are listening to creates images of lust and greed. Much of it glorifies substance abuse and violence. Some of it even glamorizes subjects such as murder and suicide. Let the listener beware!
Amen.
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Mickey
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Thank you my friend. My prayer is that just one person will have a change of heart and mind regarding this subject.
Wow! This is my experience also. I did not change that part of my personality immediately after my metanoia. I was heavily involved in the writing, recording, and production side of the business. Gradually, I went into writers block and lost all interest in the music and the business. After hearing the Divine Liturgy and the sacred hymns/chants—everything else faded away.
Amen. Amen. Amen.
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Mickey
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Indeed.
The thread is about Led Zeppelin–but there are other offenders.
Probably quite a few.
Perhaps.
Start a thread. Perhaps some of your fellow countrymen have (name removed by moderator)ut to the subject.
The thread is about Led Zeppelin–but there are other offenders.
Probably quite a few.
Perhaps.
Start a thread. Perhaps some of your fellow countrymen have (name removed by moderator)ut to the subject.
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Mickey
Guest
That explains your defense.
Boulderdash! There is a whole new generation who is trying to emulate them.
Heroin use is on the rise.
And that is your justification?
Mama mia!
Boulderdash! There is a whole new generation who is trying to emulate them.
Heroin use is on the rise.
And that is your justification?
Mama mia!
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Mickey
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No worry. I did not click on any of your links. 
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Portrait
Guest
Dear Ne_Orange Knight,
Cordial greetings and thankyou for your response above. Apologies for the delay in my reply, but it is my custom to take a breather from the boards at weekends.
Obviously a man’s critical faculty will necessarily be based upon his fallible opinion, but that is not to deny that there is such a thing as objective truth uncoloured by feeling or personal preference. We are not helplessly lost amidst a quagmire of competing opinions where everybody is right and nobody is wrong and where everything boils down to me and my viewpoint. This is to contend that truth is relative to one’s perspective and is merely about individual subjective feeling, with the exception, of course, of truth declared infallibly by the Catholic Church. Now that is an absurd position to embrace and one very antithetical to the whole spirit of Catholicism, for moral theology and logic have never argued that one is free to do as one pleases in the absence of some official pronouncement. Actually, the demand for hard evidence and proof in support of one’s position on any given topic, supplanting the former use of logic, reason and obedience, is very much a post-Vatican II mindset.
There most decidedly is a philosophy of rock and pop which is so wedded to a anti-religious, anti-authoritarian and anti-morality world-view that it would not be an overstatement to describe it as sympathy for the Devil. Indeed, many within the rock media freely admit that rock has been the occasion of an immense amount of high moral damage, especially amongst youth yet in a state of formation. Moreover, it is incontrovertible that its predominant message has always been sexual permissiveness and revolt against authority. Its very essence has a propensity to foster a spirit of lawlessness that is capable of subverting the social order. Rock and pop music inclines its devotees away from self-control, respect for one’s superiors and sublimation; it fails to channel the emotions but rather pumps them up by continually appealing to man’s elemental passions. This negative appraisal is not based on subjective biased opinion, but upon self-evident data that would be generally aknowledged, save by those who had some particular theory to uphold, for example the desire to make rock and pop a perfectly acceptable and respectable art form.
Jimmy Page was only referenced because it is Led Zeppelin who are the subject of the present thread. However, there are many other examples that could be cited to demonstrate the blatant immorality being peddled by rock and pop music. Whilst their filthy opinions and utterances are not “binding”, any man desirous to protect his mind from impurity and keep himself unstained from the world, will not hastily dismiss their remarks, if he intends buying their records and listening to their musical compositions.
No, I do deny that examples can be found of songs with inoffensive lyrics, but even these belong to a genre of music that poisons the mind and demoralizes the life. Moreover, it is important to remember that the music per se conveys a message; the medium is the message, irrespective of what innocent words are slotted into it. The music, its melody, harmony and rhythm alone disposes a man to virtue or vice by a powerful moving of the emotions. In short, music impacts us for good or bad. Since rock and pop have a wholly negative impact upon man, why would he wish to befoul his soul by listening to such debased sensory material? However, I am pleased to hear that you at least exercise some discernment as regards rock music, that is a start, dear friend.
As regards the Romans passage, I cannot see what relevance this has to the issue of whether or not one should listen to rock or pop music. Having looked at the passage again over the weekend, I fail to see how this forbids a man to use his critical faculties in relation to rock/pop music or to refuse genearally to discern between goodness and evil, any more than our Lord’s words in the Sermon on the Mount (S. Matt. 7: 1) argue for a complete suspension of one’s critical faculties. It is not uncharitable to pass unfavourable judgement upon that which we believe to be inherently evil. Moreover, just because we must not judge other men, it does not therefore follow that we must never *reprove *them, which is a great duty and act of love which may even be the means of effecting a change of heart. There is surely a place for fraternal correction, provided that it is done so in a charitable manner. What we must avoid is presuming to judge the eternal disposition of another man’s soul, since that is God’s perogative alone. However, it is right and proper to admonish our brethren if we feel that their moral health is being endangered by wrong choices, for that is a work of mercy and an act of love.
Warmest good wishes,
Portrait
Pax
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gurneyhalleck1
Guest
What do you mean “if the Starship Enterprise were real?” If? If?! 
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