Lehi the prophet, was he faithless? Can Mormons save him?

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mikehord said:
Third, the plates were translated by a device that Joseph was given. Again, this is before any modern electronic technology. Oh yes. His stones that he had before the b.o.m that could find treasure.

The Book of Mormon was meant for those living in the last days.And how did that turn out? Another false prediction by smith about when the world would end. A true prophet of God there. .
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Where is the ark , or Moses’ staff?

Circumstantial evidence is credible evidence. It is used in court every day.

To be clear though, you don’t have a problem with Joseph Smith coming up with GPS style navigation, mobile text messaging and the 3 ring binder?

We’ll soon be adding a Google glass type device used for translating languages to that list.

Ever hear the saying , truth is stranger than fiction?

So when was it that Joseph Smith said the world would end? Ive never heard that one before.
 
mikehord said:
Where is the ark , or Moses’ staff?

Circumstantial evidence is credible evidence. It is used in court every day.

To be clear though, you don’t have a problem with Joseph Smith coming up with GPS style navigation, mobile text messaging and the 3 ring binder?

We’ll soon be adding a Google glass type device used for translating languages to that list.

Ever hear the saying , truth is stranger than fiction?

So when was it that Joseph Smith said the world would end? Ive never heard that one before.
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I’m sorry but what are you talking about? smith invented gps and text messaging? Do you have proof for this? I have never heard of such a thing. Even in my 22 years of living in Utah. I would suggest that you read up on lds history. You will be surprised. But i’ll find that info for you.
 
I asked you to tell me the date not give me a link. Im trying to keep this on a positive level. There isnt really a need to list all the bad things that people could say about eachothers church/leaders. There are many names in the Bible that are tarnished.

Recently I have read the quran just to see what muslims believe. Really, I didnt see what was so convincing when compared to the Bible and the Book of Mormon. Muhammad kept talking about clear signs and he liked to point out how the Pharoh was shown very clear signs and still refused to believe. I picked up on how he realized that most wont believe anything that they dont want to or are comfortable with no matter what you show them.

So you think Joseph Smith made up this wild story and was willing to die over it?
At any time he could have said, ok, I made it all up, dont kill me.

Here is some tangible evidence. Some how, this thing called “chiasmus” ended up all over the Book of Mormon like it is in the Bible. Alma 36 has a big one. If Smith was so talented as to put hidden messages in his work, maybe he could have made a better safer living writing scifi novels. Or he was telling the truth.
 
I’m sorry but what are you talking about?
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Im talking about circumstantial evidence about Joseph smiths story as a whole that has been overlooked due to past perspectives.
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smith invented gps and text messaging? Do you have proof for this?
!!!
Let me put the burden of proof on you to show me any document in all recorded history showing another device that gave navigational guidance and mobile text messages at the same time or separetly if that will help you. But show the device before 1830 A.D.
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I have never heard of such a thing. Even in my 22 years of living in Utah.
!!!
These perspectives are so new that even the LDS have not fully grasped what I am showing you.
Part of my purpose here is to examine reactions. Most ignore while others deny but no one has yet to read 1 nephi 16:10-30 and deny that the said device was not navigation and text messaging regardless of if the device was real or not.
What brought me here was my search for anything or discussion that I can find about the Liahona mentioned on pages 34-35 in the Book of Mormon. Im not here to argue.

You denial is based on lack of tangible evidence. Thankyou.
In nomine Patris, et filii, et spiritus sancti
 
mikehord said:
Where is the ark , or Moses’ staff?

Circumstantial evidence is credible evidence. It is used in court every day.

It depends on the circumstantial evidence. What, exactly, is your circumstantial evidence here?

To be clear though, you don’t have a problem with Joseph Smith coming up with GPS style navigation, mobile text messaging and the 3 ring binder?

We’ll soon be adding a Google glass type device used for translating languages to that list.

Ever hear the saying , truth is stranger than fiction?

So when was it that Joseph Smith said the world would end? Ive never heard that one before.

COLOR=“Teal”]Not surprised. Most mormons do not know all the outlandish prophesies and doctrines and doctrines of their history. js said the workd would end in the 1800s. It didn’t.
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:confused:
 
mikehord said:
So you think Joseph Smith made up this wild story and was willing to die over it?

Yep. After all, the wild story gave him money and power. He was able to get people to build him free houses. He was able to have all the women he wanted. He was able to call himself a general and a mayor, etc. People have been willing to die for a lot less than that.

Here is some tangible evidence. Some how, this thing called “chiasmus” ended up all over the Book of Mormon like it is in the Bible. Alma 36 has a big one. If Smith was so talented as to put hidden messages in his work, maybe he could have made a better safer living writing scifi novels. Or he was telling the truth

That proves nothing. The Bible is full of Chiasmus. Js was adept at copying the Bible, even using King James English in writing the Book of Mormon. If you read D&C, it also has examples of chiasmus. js wrote D&C, too…so?

.
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mikehord said:
I’m sorry but what are you talking about?
!!!
Im talking about circumstantial evidence about Joseph smiths story as a whole that has been overlooked due to past perspectives.
!!!
smith invented gps and text messaging? Do you have proof for this?
!!!
Let me put the burden of proof on you to show me any document in all recorded history showing another device that gave navigational guidance and mobile text messages at the same time or separetly if that will help you. But show the device before 1830 A.D.
!!!
I have never heard of such a thing. Even in my 22 years of living in Utah.
!!!
These perspectives are so new that even the LDS have not fully grasped what I am showing you.
Part of my purpose here is to examine reactions. Most ignore while others deny but no one has yet to read 1 nephi 16:10-30 and deny that the said device was not navigation and text messaging regardless of if the device was real or not.
What brought me here was my search for anything or discussion that I can find about the Liahona mentioned on pages 34-35 in the Book of Mormon. Im not here to argue.

You denial is based on lack of tangible evidence. Thankyou.
In nomine Patris, et filii, et spiritus sancti
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Did you know that man learned the importance of and how to build roads from deer? Long before it occurred to mankind, deer were setting down permanent routes that took them from sleeping locations to eating locations.
 
Suppose I were a jew or an athiest.
What tangible evidence would you use to persuade me to believe in Christ?
What circumstantial evidence would you use?
 
mikehord said:
Suppose I were a jew or an athiest.
What tangible evidence would you use to persuade me to believe in Christ?
What circumstantial evidence would you use?
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Empirical evidence shows the New Testament is a first century document; and it shows that D&C and Pearl of great price are 19th century documents. Even if you don’t believe that all they say, at least we know they were written in the correct time period.
 
mikehord said:
So you think Joseph Smith made up this wild story and was willing to die over it?
At any time he could have said, ok, I made it all up, dont kill me.
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He wasn’t willing to die for anything that is why he had a gun with him. The only Mormons who died that day where carrying guns. All the Smith’s had to do was throw their guns down and they would have lived.
 
mikehord said:
Let me put the burden of proof on you to show me any document in all recorded history showing another device that gave navigational guidance and mobile text messages at the same time or separetly if that will help you. But show the device before 1830 A.D.
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This should be fun. We don’t even have to look for documents. We can find the devices themselves.

What about an astrolabe? Or even a basic magnetic compass? These devices were used for nagivation long before Joseph Smith Jr was a twinkle in the eye of Joseph Smith Sr. The astrolabe below was made in 1400 AD. The globe is a celestial globe from Persia in the 12th century AD. More information on the astrolabe en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrolabe and the history of navigation techniques en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_navigation.

Crystals, glass, mirrors, animal entrails, bones, certain plants, etc have been used for divination for thousands of years. Lehi didn’t have to have a spherical iphone to receive supernatural messages. Joseph Smith used a peep stone found on the bottom of the well for his divination, which is not too different from how Lehi used the Liahona. No need for an iphone.

So does Thomas Monson have a smart phone where he exchanges text messages with Heavenly Father? If not, why not? Isn’t he a prophet like Joseph Smith or Lehi? Maybe he used the GPS navigation in his celestial smart phone to attend his court summons in the UK today?

Just for kicks, check out the picture of the coptic bound book. This is a modern example of coptic book binding, but this method was used by Coptic Christians as early as the 2nd century AD. Interestingly, if a book is bound by this method without a cover, it is able to be opened 360 degrees.
 
iepuras said:
Just for kicks, check out the picture of the coptic bound book. This is a modern example of coptic book binding, but this method was used by Coptic Christians as early as the 2nd century AD. Interestingly, if a book is bound by this method without a cover, it is able to be opened 360 degrees.
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But that has 4 leather rings, not 3, so I don’t think it counts. :rolleyes: 😛
 
iepuras said:
This should be fun. We don’t even have to look for documents. We can find the devices themselves.

What about an astrolabe? Or even a basic magnetic compass? These devices were used for nagivation long before Joseph Smith Jr was a twinkle in the eye of Joseph Smith Sr. The astrolabe below was made in 1400 AD. The globe is a celestial globe from Persia in the 12th century AD. More information on the astrolabe en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrolabe and the history of navigation techniques en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_navigation.

Crystals, glass, mirrors, animal entrails, bones, certain plants, etc have been used for divination for thousands of years. Lehi didn’t have to have a spherical iphone to receive supernatural messages. Joseph Smith used a peep stone found on the bottom of the well for his divination, which is not too different from how Lehi used the Liahona. No need for an iphone.

So does Thomas Monson have a smart phone where he exchanges text messages with Heavenly Father? If not, why not? Isn’t he a prophet like Joseph Smith or Lehi? Maybe he used the GPS navigation in his celestial smart phone to attend his court summons in the UK today?

Just for kicks, check out the picture of the coptic bound book. This is a modern example of coptic book binding, but this method was used by Coptic Christians as early as the 2nd century AD. Interestingly, if a book is bound by this method without a cover, it is able to be opened 360 degrees.
Click to expand...
 
An astrolab , peep stone and something less than a three ring binder is the best you can do? We cant have that much fun.
 
mikehord said:
An astrolab , peep stone and something less than a three ring binder is the best you can do? We cant have that much fun.
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At least those are real objects, and I don’t have to rely on Joseph Smith’s imaginary ones. Show me the gold plates, the stone box, the urim and thumim and the Liahona. I would even accept lots of Nephite, Lamanite and horse remains at the hill Comorah that carbon date back to 400 AD or so.

So is Apple developing a spherical iphone with GPS navigation that Mr. Monson can use to arrive at his UK court summons or to receive text messages from Heavenly Father on what he should talk about at general conference? If Mr. Monson is a prophet, where is his celestial smart phone?
 
Joseph smith might as well have told us about the iphone. Call it a back handed prophecy.
If you could see them would you believe or would you have to hold them and use them to believe?
 
I thought the devices Smith claimed to have and use were supernatural, not technological?
 
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